69 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

jjkrogs wrote...

"When I was destroying insanely powerful creatures with almost no effort at the end of Awakening, I pretty much decided that DA2 would feature a new hero. The Warden is in the "epic levels" phase now and that just doesn't make for a good tactical game."

Really? Then there's a cap in DA's system, because I sure didn't see it. I could've kept plugging numbers into strength, as a warrior, infinitely, apparently. Which, getting back on track here, is part of the problem with DA's character system. It forced you, in essence, to keep coming back to the same watering hole each and every time you level. There are no caps on attributes, but there are max skills? It just isn't right. But alas, I'm beating a dead horse, here. I've said what I wanted to say about the DA character system, and the bottom line is it's nothing like D&D 3.0+. Some like that fact, some don't. I am the latter.

I'd prepare for even more disappointment then.  You at least needed to use the system with DA:O, which was not the case in ME2 - as I found out after an Insanity run where I didn't spend a single talent point.  Note they've never said that the combat is going to stay exactly the same even on the PC, just that it'll retain the tactical "feel".  They said much the same with ME2, as well as a lot about "streamlining" and "making the combat more intuitive and cinematic."  The DA2 press is all sounding very familiar.  It's entirely possible that we're going to get God of War gameplay with a paper-thin RPG veneer, just as ME2 was Gears of War gameplay with a paper-thin - and ultimately superfluous - RPG veneer.  

[AlanC9]

If anything, high-level characters would do better in DA's system, which isn't based around tiers of differing monster types. In D&D you pretty much have to go godlike/planar after a certain point, but DA's monsters aren't organized that way.



But better doesn't mean good. Both systems start to fall apart at high levels.

[SDNcN]

jjkrogs wrote...

"I'm puzzled by this statement. There is no "complete change of direction". They changed the way some things look, they're providing only one origin instead of six, and (hopefully) they'll be updating the ruleset to suck less. That's not a complete change of direction. DA2 is still an RPG, it's still set in Thedas, it still has tactical party gameplay (at least on the PC... consoles are weird), it still has romances, etc."

I'm going with the controversial assumption of many, myself included, that Origins was to be the first of a series of games involving the same importable character, much like BG 1/2. Why else would they spend so much time trumpeting the whole concept of origin stories? Why spend so much time and effort on background for a single game? Besides, the 'spiritual successor' to BG ended with a significant cliffhanger so as to suggest the story continued. I don't think it's a stretch to assume a continuation of the warden's story for any sequel.

So the announcement of a whole new (premade) character, with a whole new story loosely based on what happened in the first game, to me, suggests a change of concept. I'm also convinced the success of ME2 and EA's involvement also shifted things along in a new direction. To what extent is anyone's guess.

BioWare will never admit this is true (if indeed it is) so I admit it will never be more than speculation, but that's the vibe I'm getting from the whole deal. They want a "choose your own movie", not an RPG. Will I enjoy the game, sure. But it leaves room for someone to create a new D&D-based game, should the other legal ramifications play out.

This assumption is wrong and needs to die already.

"Each team is really encouraged to be entrepreneurial about their own
destiny, if you will," he said. "The 'Mass Effect' team focused heavily
on a trilogy, that's something they really wanted to do and tell a story
through a trilogy. That doesn't mean that other great things can't
happen in the 'Mass Effect' universe. Whereas with us, rather than
approach it from [having one] iconic hero, we really wanted to create a
sandbox for great fantasy entertainment and really create a universe
that's compelling, that's engaging, that there's a lot of depth to."

...

But while "Dragon Age: Origins" is not an announced multi-game arc, he made clear this is a new BioWare franchise.

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/02/11/why-dragon-age-isnt-a-trilogy/

Bioware has always intended for the Dragon Age series to have multiple protagonists.
Origins and its multiple origin stories were intended to introduce players to a new setting, not tell the origins of an importable character used throughout the series.

Modifié par SDNcN, 06 août 2010 - 06:27 .

[Kalfear]

Khavos wrote...

Dtelm wrote...
If you going to be technical simply for the sake of being technical, at least be correct.
There is nothing wrong with saying a well-written story. The story had to be written, did it not? You can just as easily say that a movie was very well written.

Thats why those people that work on the story are called "story writers" and not "story tellers" 

There's something wrong with saying "a well-written story" when the story is not well-written.  They're told well, but Bioware stories tend to be awfully pedestrian, and if you don't see their tropes and cliches coming the second you install the game, I don't know what to tell you. 

Before ME2, id disagree.

But since the EA take over the writing has been rather predictable and, well juvinile!

DA:O was great but you could see how it was even dumbed down in places from what fans had learned to come to expect from Bioware in their independant developer days!

I guess the right way to say it is Biowares writing and development has become "Corperate".

KotOR was well written, ME1 was well written, even Jade Empire was well written.
ME2 though had no heart and soul to it. It was like they just going through the motions.
DA:O was mostly written before EA take over so I honestly beleive now thats why it was as complexe as it was. I surely dont expect DA:O complexity in DA2 from all reports. In fact a number of reports/reveiws have flat out said DA2 is the lesser product writing wise.

As for people liking the new stuff (a unquoted reply to Khavos) . I know people that still read Archie comics and balk at the idea of actually reading a full book so there is a consumer for ever product out there! The question is now, are these new fans going to support Bioware like the old ones did with their wallets and not just mindless lip service on a website?

Early returns of ME2 suggest the answer is no, but lets give it some time and see how it all plays out!

As a longtime Bioware fan that WONT just mindlessly accept everything they say with out question, they got my money for ME2 off reputation, and they stole from me with lies and half truths with that product. That was their get outta jail free card. Now they have to earn my money by making a solid product! All I read and hear about DA2 tells me ill be holding off for the $20.00 sale on Steam for this title. Will make only the 2nd title I didnt buy immediately from Bioware in decades.

Anyways, the answer to the OP. I wouldnt hold my breath on bioware returning to their AD&D roots now they with EA. Think your going to have to look at other independant studios for something like that.

I know I wasnt happy with the story in ME2 and wasnt thrilled with what im hearing about DA2 so I went looking for a studio that could delive the story aspect I was missing from old Bioware games. I think I have found that in CD Projekt, a independant studio outta Poland who made The Witcher game.

AD&D is a big enough title with enough fans that some studio looking for a already established fandom will develop for them eventually. Might have to wait a few years for that to happen though. Games are costly to make no so its not like the good old days where 2-3 freinds could developed a grade A cRPG for almost nothing cost wise.

For better or worse, those days gone so cRPGs cost ALOT more now to make and require whole studios to develop them.

Hopefully there still some that passionate about what they do and how they do it and have the freedom to do it right.

[AlanC9]

Khavos wrote...
 They said much the same with ME2, as well as a lot about "streamlining" and "making the combat more intuitive and cinematic."

Really? I remember them being quite clear that ME2 was going to be more of a shooter RPG, and that shooter fans were going to like the gameplay.

I don't know why so many people were surprised that they did what they said they were going to do.

Edit: @ Kalfear: No, I'm not ignoring you. But it's late, and I'm tired.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 août 2010 - 06:39 .

[Khavos]

AlanC9 wrote...

Khavos wrote...
 They said much the same with ME2, as well as a lot about "streamlining" and "making the combat more intuitive and cinematic."

Really? I remember them being quite clear that ME2 was going to be more of a shooter RPG, and that shooter fans were going to like the gameplay.

I don't know why so many people were surprised that they did what they said they were going to do.

I don't recall them saying they were going to dump the RPG gameplay elements entirely, which is what they did - Christina Norman's presentation on ME2 development says outright that they designed the game to function as a shooter and then did their best to try and squeeze in RPG elements here and there after the fact.  As far as shooter fans liking the gameplay, this one at least found it both incredibly easy and incredibly tedious. 

Either way, with all their "fight like a Spartan!" and "more dynamic combat" BS, I strongly suspect we're basically going to get God of War with a couple of superfluous skill trees and the occasional dialogue wheel. 

[Massadonious1]

Kalfear wrote...
But since the EA take over the writing

[Anarya]

Kalfear wrote...



In fact a number of reports/reveiws have flat out said DA2 is the lesser product writing wise.

Uh, who said this? Who would even know enough about the writing other than Bioware employees to make that kind of call so early?



DA2 actually has the same writing team as DAO you know.

[Maverick827]

jjkrogs wrote...

With that said, I wonder if BioWare, now sold out to EA

Stopped reading here; your bias is laughable and your opinions can not be taken seriously.

Thank you for trying.

[armigal]

Oh come on people. As was pointed out in one review of the game, all the "freedom of choice and roleplaying" between different origins came down to the phrases like: "Hello! You are an elf!" or "Hello! You are a dwarf!".



The Warden was basically just a doll for you to play the game with. A doll without emotions, goals, dreams, hopes. All the things that make a real character.



Now with Hawke Bioware is taking a different approach - they are making a person that lives and breathes in the world of Dragon Age, without being a blatant self-insert. And I think that this is the right direction.

[BlacKStorM ZeRo]

Quick answer to your question: No, it wouldn't sell.

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Oh but D&D classes are so much more interesting.

[BlacKStorM ZeRo]

armigal wrote...

Oh come on people. As was pointed out in one review of the game, all the "freedom of choice and roleplaying" between different origins came down to the phrases like: "Hello! You are an elf!" or "Hello! You are a dwarf!".

The Warden was basically just a doll for you to play the game with. A doll without emotions, goals, dreams, hopes. All the things that make a real character.

Now with Hawke Bioware is taking a different approach - they are making a person that lives and breathes in the world of Dragon Age, without being a blatant self-insert. And I think that this is the right direction.

Agreed. They are making the game more similar to ME2 in that respect, which is definitely a good thing. (I know they aren't adding in a Mass Effect style personality meter, and I hope they never do. I still hate that thing...)

[SerbianWarrior]

DnD games are all nice and well, and many of modern RPG games implement the mechanics of DnD games, more or less.

Dragon Age Origins had a fair, even a great number of customization options.

The only thing that worries me is the Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2 transition,will it happen to Dragon Age 2?Wont get into the details,i will just say that i reacted to it like a Frenchman reacts to watered down wine.

In any case,im sure that the cinematic and story elements will be great,as for gameplay,we shall see.

[jjkrogs]

Maverick827 wrote...

jjkrogs wrote...

With that said, I wonder if BioWare, now sold out to EA

Stopped reading here; your bias is laughable and your opinions can not be taken seriously.

Thank you for trying.

What part don't you agree with--  the part where BioWare is now part of EA, the part where EA, then, has a major influence in what BioWare does, or my opinion that I have a problem with EA having a major influence on what BioWare does?

[AlanC9]

Probably the part about EA having a major influence on what Bio does. Bio's always tried to make A-list mass market titles. They consolized KotOR as an independent company. They came up with Mass Effect's dialog wheel long before EA came along



(I don't agree with the guys at RPGCodex about too much, but I'm with them on this. Note, however, that they hate Bio and everything it stands for).



Some Bio fans have deluded themselves into thinking of Bio as a niche company, but they've never tried to be one and never thought of themselves as being one.

[Khavos]

armigal wrote...

Oh come on people. As was pointed out in one review of the game, all the "freedom of choice and roleplaying" between different origins came down to the phrases like: "Hello! You are an elf!" or "Hello! You are a dwarf!".

The Warden was basically just a doll for you to play the game with. A doll without emotions, goals, dreams, hopes. All the things that make a real character.

Now with Hawke Bioware is taking a different approach - they are making a person that lives and breathes in the world of Dragon Age, without being a blatant self-insert. And I think that this is the right direction.

Really?  My doll had emotions, goals, dreams, hopes.  But yes, you're right in that Bioware is making a person that lives and breathes in the world of Dragon Age - their person.  I really hoped they'd let us make our person, but, c'est la vie.  

Unfortunately, they've gone so far down the JRPG path that I really doubt they'd be able to turn back and make a decent WRPG anymore. 

[AlanC9]

Khavos wrote...

I don't recall them saying they were going to dump the RPG gameplay elements entirely, which is what they did - Christina Norman's presentation on ME2 development says outright that they designed the game to function as a shooter and then did their best to try and squeeze in RPG elements here and there after the fact.  As far as shooter fans liking the gameplay, this one at least found it both incredibly easy and incredibly tedious. 

But again, Bio was quite clear what direction the combat was going in. Like it or don't like it, it is more shooterish, and both user reviews and professional reviews show that most folks considered the new combat to be better.

I honestly don't recall too much of their comments about the "RPG elements" one way or the other.

[AlanC9]

Khavos wrote...
Unfortunately, they've gone so far down the JRPG path that I really doubt they'd be able to turn back and make a decent WRPG anymore.  

Plenty of WRPGs have had predefined starts for their characters. Or are PS:T, the Fallouts, and event the Ultima games JRPGs?

[Stanley Woo]

AD&D has nothing to do with DA2, so I'm going to shut it down. Note also that AD&D is likely no longer supported, since Wizards of the Coast has released AD&D 2E, 3E, 3.5E and 4E since then. Even NWN1 was based on 3E.



End of line.