60 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

Hmm, it appears on testing the Pets do not get any Elemental Damage from Frost Weapons. That stinks.

[soteria]

Party-wide, how many attacks can you get off in that time period? Five doesn't seem like an unreasonable number, so at 3.5 per, you're looking at 17.5 additional damage - about half, yes? And if that were the whole story, I might actually agree with you here (not likely, though)

...

So what have you got when you add all that up? Hard to say...there's about a million different variables to factor in. But I would hazard a guess that unless you're running something obscure, like 3 mages + 1 archer, SoC, even with only 40 CUN, will handily outdo a pet.

I have to laugh at this last comment, because my feelings are that unless you're running something obscure, like multiple dual-wielders and no mage, the pet wins hands down.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that we're running a dual-wield warrior without a mage. Zevran is our rogue, and we'll bring Sten and Alistair along. For argument's sake, Zevran has 40 cunning and either ranger or bard. I could have made the PC the rogue, but that makes the case worse for you, because you're unlikely to bring along Zevran in that case, and you don't have another stock dual-wielder.

I've never timed the pet attacks, but it looks like about the same speed as a large weapon, so let's say we're looking at how many swings your party will get in two seconds. Sten is easy--he'll only get 1.x on average, depending on your weapon and how often you spam sunder. Alistair is about the same. We'll say they average three attacks between the two of them in our window. Our warrior can get at least three in by himself, and Zevran can probably manage four. That's a total of 10 attacks--I'll double your conservative estimate. My spider does 40 damage, which is more than 35, and this is an extremely favorable setup for song of courage. More likely, we can add a mage, slash the number of attacks by half back down to your 5, and even jump to 70 cunning, doubling the bonus--and still be in the same place, behind in damage.

Yeah, yeah, you got crits and +6 attack, but the pet brings a lot of intangibles... and some not-so-intangibles. You can let your pet "tank" the Broodmother, neatly bypassing both grabs and poison spit, if you like. We've already pointed out the benefits of having an expendable party member to eat a crushing prison.

About the only point I'll give you is that the pets can be a hassle. And sure, the crits are nice.

[beancounter501]

After doing a lot of play testing with all three specs, I am moving the Assassin spec over the Ranger spec. So it would be



1. Assassin

2. Ranger

3. Duelist

4. Bard



Mainly because the massive stamina sink you get with the other specs.

1 - Summon Animal : 50

2. Duelist: 30

3. Song of Courage: 50



Combined with Momentum it is hard to use any talents like Riptose or Dirty Fighting until much latter in the game. I am almost leaning to just one spec as being ideal for a Rogue since you have so many really good Rogue talents to take.

[soteria]

The only reason I don't put Assassin in first is how useless it is for anyone who's not backstabbing.

[Last Darkness]

soteria wrote...

The only reason I don't put Assassin in first is how useless it is for anyone who's not backstabbing.

Thats where your tank of choice comes into play to assist you.

[Random70]

soteria wrote...

Party-wide, how many attacks can you get off in that time period? Five doesn't seem like an unreasonable number, so at 3.5 per, you're looking at 17.5 additional damage - about half, yes? And if that were the whole story, I might actually agree with you here (not likely, though)
...
So what have you got when you add all that up? Hard to say...there's about a million different variables to factor in. But I would hazard a guess that unless you're running something obscure, like 3 mages + 1 archer, SoC, even with only 40 CUN, will handily outdo a pet.

I have to laugh at this last comment, because my feelings are that unless you're running something obscure, like multiple dual-wielders and no mage, the pet wins hands down.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that we're running a dual-wield warrior without a mage. Zevran is our rogue, and we'll bring Sten and Alistair along. For argument's sake, Zevran has 40 cunning and either ranger or bard. I could have made the PC the rogue, but that makes the case worse for you, because you're unlikely to bring along Zevran in that case, and you don't have another stock dual-wielder.
I've never timed the pet attacks, but it looks like about the same speed as a large weapon, so let's say we're looking at how many swings your party will get in two seconds. Sten is easy--he'll only get 1.x on average, depending on your weapon and how often you spam sunder. Alistair is about the same. We'll say they average three attacks between the two of them in our window. Our warrior can get at least three in by himself, and Zevran can probably manage four. That's a total of 10 attacks--I'll double your conservative estimate. My spider does 40 damage, which is more than 35, and this is an extremely favorable setup for song of courage.

Or...
Sten Sunders for +7
Al Assaults for +14
PC Punishes for +14
Zev Flurries for +14 -------> +49 Total

That alone will outdo all but a Lvl 18 pet (according to BC), which you can't even get until clvl 20...

And that's not even considering AoEs:
Sten could Sweep 5 guys for +17.5
Zev sweeps 3 guys with each weapon for +21
PC could WW 5 guys with each weapon for +35

Oh, and for a full CUN Rogue, double all of those numbers

soteria wrote...
More likely, we can add a mage, slash the number of attacks by half back down to your 5, and even jump to 70 cunning, doubling the bonus--and still be in the same place, behind in damage.

Add a Mage? Cool, we'll drop Sten and add a Mage w/ Haste

Al is applying that damage from from his auto attacks 30% faster

PC lights up Precise Stiking to stay under the cap and can now simply auto attack and apply that bonus damage at near 2x Haste speed

Zev doesn't have PS so he disables Mom. But he can still auto at nearly the same speed and now has +60 stamina with which he can us even more multi-hit Talents than he could have otherwise.

And the Att bonus from SoC offsets the Haste penalty...

Like I said before, there's a million different ways you could configure this but from my standpoint, the best that a pet could hope for here is a wash.
And here's the important part: The flat damage adder is just one of three buffs from SoC.

soteria wrote...
Yeah, yeah, you got crits and +6 attack...

Yeah, crits and attack.
Without doing a bunch of math, I would guesstimate that, on average, you could add another ~3 damage per swing to account for crits. So change that '49' number above into a '91'. And again, for a full CUN build double that number as well.

And the ATT boost, over time, is probably the most important aspect of SoC. Here's a brief exchange I had with BC several months back about why his PC was doing way the hell more damage than anybody else:

BC: I decided to open up the character screen and see what everyone's attack rating is. The main has an attack score of 114, Alistar has 101, Sten is at 90 and Ogren is at 94. Looks like the huge attack bonus from Starfang and the Harvest Festival Ring are having a big impact! Maybe I should give those two items to another character and see if they pull ahead.

R70: Been saying it for a long time: In most instances the best way to increase your 'DPS' is to actually hit things with your attacks. From a practical standpoint + / - 10 Attack is a *Big* deal.

Like I mentioned previously: Less attacks missed = more damage done.

Don't you guys run Precise Striking on your 2H? Why? Because the increased crit chance offers a very good chance of an attck doing 50+ more damage and even worse, missing an attack is going to cause 100-150 to go out the window, not to mention the lost time.

In the example above, Zev is providing 'Precise Striking Lite' , with an additional damage adder and no loss of auto speed, for the entire party, including himself, where he otherwise has no access to PS.  So either all 3 warriors can disable PS and collectively gain 90 stamina with which they can spam more Talents or leave it active and enjoy the buffs from both

soteria wrote...
but the pet brings a lot of intangibles... and some not-so-intangibles. You can let your pet "tank" the Broodmother, neatly bypassing both grabs and poison spit, if you like. We've already pointed out the benefits of having an expendable party member to eat a crushing prison.

A 4 person party of any combination of builds already has more CC / Debuff abilities than they can use. After any given encouter you've almost always got x,y, and z still sitting on the shelf. Summoning a pet for this is, best case, redundant and when viewed in the worst light, a waste of resources you've already got.

Soaking up Crushing Prison?
Um, yeah, I guess so. I have to wonder though, why, with all of the CC a full party has at it's command, you feel the need to ever let an enemy mage cast anything at you in the first place?

As to any other intangibles?
Sorry, can't help you guys with that. My only advice is to quit ****ing around with flanking and 'Tanking' and 'Aggro', buff your people with SoC, and go crush everything in sight

[chefbobby203]

Yeah I've never really found pets to be all that great. The extra attack rating from SoC/Rally/Precise Striking is huge, especially on nightmare. I know on my 2handers I run precise striking all the time from the moment I get it. The second I turn it off I always end up regretting it too....misses just plain suck!

[soteria]

Sten Sunders for +7
Al Assaults for +14
PC Punishes for +14
Zev Flurries for +14 -------> +49 Total

Er, Assault and Punisher take 3s each. Subtract 2 attacks, or 7 damage, dropping you back down to around 40. Besides, all of those abilities have cooldowns, so it's not like you'd be able to do that every 2 seconds in any event.  Actually, since the spider attacks every 1.5 seconds, you could drop it a lot farther than that.

And that's not even considering AoEs:
Sten could Sweep 5 guys for +17.5
Zev sweeps 3 guys with each weapon for +21
PC could WW 5 guys with each weapon for +35

Bear or wolf shatters a frozen target for 200. Spider spits poison for ~60.

Add a Mage? Cool, we'll drop Sten and add a Mage w/ Haste
Al is applying that damage from from his auto attacks 30% faster
PC lights up Precise Stiking to stay under the cap and can now simply auto attack and apply that bonus damage at near 2x Haste speed
Zev doesn't have PS so he disables Mom. But he can still auto at nearly the same speed and now has +60 stamina with which he can us even more multi-hit Talents than he could have otherwise.

Edit:  Beancounter says haste doesn't benefit pets.  I guess I've never tried.  Anyway, apparently the spider also attacks significantly faster than I was assuming, so there's that--you might as well consider the spider hasted off my original estimate.  Besides, you're not getting full benefit from haste in this setup, since Zevran is attacking slower and the PC is only attacking 20% faster.

Without doing a bunch of math, I would guesstimate that, on average, you could add another ~3 damage per swing to account for crits. So change that '49' number above into a '91'. And again, for a full CUN build double that number as well.

I'm not very comfortable with this math, given the huge disparity in the damage a dagger crit and a 2h crit will deal, the attack times, and everything else... yeah. You could probably add a few percent onto the original damage each weapon is doing, but we haven't made up enough numbers yet to make up those numbers. With the hypothetical group I made up, maybe the crit puts you ahead. In a group that's not stacked for highest SoC benefit, heck no, it doesn't.

And the ATT boost, over time, is probably the most important aspect of SoC. Here's a brief exchange I had with BC several months back about why his PC was doing way the hell more damage than anybody else:

It's possible I'm underestimating the value of the attack bonus when spread across the entire group. In theory, each point of attack is 1% more damage, after all. Of course, by the time you get SoC and that much cunning, how many attacks are your warriors missing, anyway?

A 4 person party of any combination of builds already has more CC / Debuff abilities than they can use. After any given encouter you've almost always got x,y, and z still sitting on the shelf. Summoning a pet for this is, best case, redundant and when viewed in the worst light, a waste of resources you've already got.
Soaking up Crushing Prison?

Um, yeah, I guess so. I have to wonder though, why, with all of the CC a full party has at it's command, you feel the need to ever let an enemy mage cast anything at you in the first place?

I can only speak from personal experience, but I can think of a good number of mages that, after a certain level, will cast crushing prison on sight on the first enemy they see. Short of using tactics that I consider exploitive, I can't stop that. Since I don't use potions, even a quick cleanse area isn't really enough to save that character, since they're probably getting attacked by multiple enemies. And, with any player, that would depend on the party, wouldn't it? Having the pet gives you more options.

Modifié par soteria, 11 août 2010 - 01:13 .

[chefbobby203]

How far away is Alistair from your PC that a cleanse can't save you? This is the tactic I use to remove Crushing Prison and I've found it to be highly successful. Most enemy mages seem to open with this ability so he always has plenty of stam to cleanse....

Obviously having the pet tank the spell will work too and is certainly less risky, but since I almost always play with Alistair in my group and have never had an issue with efficacy using cleanse area, it just seems a bit redundant to throw the pet out there as well.

I think a lot of the contention stems from the fact that different group comps/specs will get more benefit from either the extra party member or the attack buffs. I prefer to buff my PC up into a complete monster so it's SoC for me all the way(except on my current blood mage/spirit healer), but I'm sure having the extra damage dealer/tank can be quite handy in plenty of situations throughout the game. I'm just not certain there is a clear cut "best" spec

[beancounter501]

I think a lot of the value of pets comes in strategy. If you just summon them up and expect them to carry the weight of a fifth party member you will be very disappointed. Or a second party member in the case of you die hard soloists! But they do open a ton of tactics. Especially when combined with a mage.

Send the pet in and case Glyph of Replusion + Glypgh of Paralysis for a Paralysis Explosion right on top of him. The rest of the party can then mop up. That would trivalize half the encounters in the game. They can do Shatter attacks. They can Paralyze. They can take hits. They can sit right in the middle of an Inferno. But no they will never compare to a party member. Except maybe an Archer! Lol.

I also agree with Soteria about the whole Crushing Prision thing.

@ Chefbobby - a lot of times the lead character will get far ahead of the rest of the party. Watch the minimap next time you play. If you see a mage and charge you will sometimes be hit with Crushing Prision and then be Dog Piled by 5 or 6 Darkspawn. It may take a couple of seconds to move your templar in for a cleanse aura. By that point your character has lost 3/4 of his health. Then the AI is going to lock onto your character and keep attacking him. So you come out of Crushing Prison only to be killed by 5+ Darkspawn hitting you. There are a couple of encounters in the Deep Roads like this.

Modifié par beancounter501, 11 août 2010 - 12:38 .

[beancounter501]

Here is a questions: which is the better Boss Killer- Mark of Death or Pinpoint Strike? I am leaning towards MoD. But I am unsure about a few things. Does the Bonus Dmg from MoD impact Runes or Mage Spells. Has anyone seen it resisted?



I guess the best would be a Assassin/Dualist, but I am not sure you would have the stamina to run Momentum + Duelist and activate Pinpoint Strike and MoD. That would require 60 + 30 + 40 + 60 = 190 Stamina assuming no fatigue or about 210 with a 20% Fatigue. Or I guess you could leave Momentum & Dueling off, hit the target with MoD, Turn on Dueling, hit pinpoint strike and turn on Momentum. But you are burning up a couple of seconds activating Dueling and Momentum.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

Assassin/Duelist/Shadow

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...

Here is a questions: which is the better Boss Killer- Mark of Death or Pinpoint Strike? I am leaning towards MoD. But I am unsure about a few things. Does the Bonus Dmg from MoD impact Runes or Mage Spells. Has anyone seen it resisted?

I guess the best would be a Assassin/Dualist, but I am not sure you would have the stamina to run Momentum + Duelist and activate Pinpoint Strike and MoD. That would require 60 + 30 + 40 + 60 = 190 Stamina assuming no fatigue or about 210 with a 20% Fatigue. Or I guess you could leave Momentum & Dueling off, hit the target with MoD, Turn on Dueling, hit pinpoint strike and turn on Momentum. But you are burning up a couple of seconds activating Dueling and Momentum.

Assuming Fade / Honnleath / Anduril / Key / Spellward

L17 Dex Rogue w/ Leather and  Mom / Dueling active
Total MoD + PS cost: 117
Available Stamina: 149------> No Problem

L17 Str Rogue w/ Dragonbone WC + Cailan's and Mom / Dueling
Total MoD + PS Cost: 148
Available Stamina: 149------> Tight but do-able

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
I also agree with Soteria about the whole Crushing Prision thing.

Stealth / Backstab?
AoS?
Holy Smite?
A dozen different mage spells?
Spell resist gear?
Run into the room, activate everything, run out, and nail Emissary when he comes around the corner with one of several different  CC melee talents?

Or you can send in your warrior, let him get CP'd, then cast FF to dispell CP and blow everything up with Shockwave.
Advantage: You

[deceptious]

i'm curious as to which specialization you guys think compliments duelist the best

[soteria]

Random70 wrote...

beancounter501 wrote...
I also agree with Soteria about the whole Crushing Prision thing.

Stealth / Backstab?
AoS?
Holy Smite?
A dozen different mage spells?
Spell resist gear?
Run into the room, activate everything, run out, and nail Emissary when he comes around the corner with one of several different  CC melee talents?

Or you can send in your warrior, let him get CP'd, then cast FF to dispell CP and blow everything up with Shockwave.
Advantage: You

...and?  I could use much the same argument against any single ability or tactic in the game.  The presence of alternatives to an option doesn't make that option any less strong.  This post could, in fact, be quoted to pooh-pooh the usefulness of any number of anti-mage tools.  Of course, there's an opportunity cost to using Ranger (possibly nil, depending on your take on the theoretical math in the posts above), but there's also an opportunity cost to all of the abilities and tactics you listed here.

[beancounter501]

@Random - Your arguments for building a Boss Killer Assassin/Duelist are much better then the Bard ones. You are convincing there, but Song of Crap still stinks.



You did forget one very important part of the SoC build - by going 40 cunning - including gear you are dropping at least 12 points off dex/strength. (Assumes Helm of Honealth, Key to the City, Andruil's Belt = +6. Most Rogues get 20 cunning out of Fade + Opening Clas Attributes) That equals -6 attack, -12 defense. Which means your Rogue is not getting any attack boost out of SoC. Out of the entire party there is one person who needs an attack boost - and that is the Rogue. Plus - SoC and cunning 40 are coming late game (unless you want to gimp your Rogue by beeling straight for it) when warriors have attack ratings in the 120-130 range. +6 is OK, but not game changing. And three points of dmg does not mean crap. And a mage in your party gets 0 benefit from SoC. Plus by going 40 cunning you almost *have* to get Lethality. Kiss off 6 talents for very mediocre benefits.





I would rather go Assassin/Duelist for with a 22 Cunning and score an attack rating 17 points higher then the SoC build.



Or pick up a Ranger Pet over Bard.

[d3c0yBoY]

I've been currently testing a Duelist Strength Rogue and its been frighteningly effective. Fought two Reverents so far and you can see how fast it chews through their health. Hate to admit that I'm buying into the Duelist camp over Ranger. To compare, I reloaded with a Ranger and the pet was quickly dispatched (multiple tries on both builds), negating the purpose of the specialization. Melee wise, I would think with Str Duelist/Assassin as my new fave for Rogues. It's my guess Dex/Str Archer would be equally effective with Duelist/Ranger. Not a big fan of Cun builds myself but I will playtest to see how it feels.

Modifié par d3c0yBoY, 12 août 2010 - 04:09 .

[Random70]

@ BC / Soteria

To expand on my rec's on page 1 of this thread...

* Dex or Str Backstabber - Solo or Party
Duelist / Assassin all the way.
Attack, defense, damage, and the uber anti-Boss MoD and PS abilities? Very simply, no other combination of specs can match the power of these two here.

@BC - I run my DEX Rogues up to 40+ CUN. By end game, a pure DEX Rogue is going to end up with something like 180 DEF - which is way too much. By taking CUN to 40+, I get more damage from attribute substitution, more damage from EW, gain a couple extra Armor Pen, and save a Talent and Skill point on Locks and Coercion respectively. And even with this my ATT / DEF end up at 130+ / 160+. STR builds I only take to 30 for Locks but if you have Leli to pop locks for you, by all means leave it at 22.

* Cunning Backstabber - Party
Assassin / Bard.
Assassin is mandatory. As to the second, with an ultimate CUN score of ~90, why would you not take Bard? This build already has a terrible attack rating and you would further compound this issue by not taking a spec with an attack bonus? Make all the arguments you wish about party composition, but I'll take +11 ATT, +6 Dam, and +12% Crit even if my Rogue is the only one benefitting from it. And frankly, if your Rogue is the only one gaining benefit, that means you're running 3 mages and in that case, not only are pets redundant but your Rogue is, too.

* Cunning Backstabber - Solo
What, seriously? Unless you're a masochist, don't do this.

* Dex Archer - Solo
Duelist / Bard
Duelist is mandatory. Don't believe me? Roll up a Dalish archer and solo the first part of the game. You'll be doing good if you can maintain a 60% hit rate. When you hit Lvl 7 and grab Dueling, you'll leap out of your chair and do a happy dance. Gotta take Bard for your 2nd spec. Assassin is almost totally useless here and pets, on the few occasions where they might be useful, fall down and die in ~ .082 seconds. Take the attack bonuses instead as 12% crit (w/ Aim) is too nice to pass up and, even with Aim, the you can't have too much attack as you're dealing not only with enemy defense, but range penalties as well.

*Cunning Archer - Party
Duelist / Bard
Everything I mentioned above only now the crit bonus is 24%. That will bring your total bonus up to ~40%. Critting on nearly half of your attacks, even without farting around with the Stealth button? Easy decision.

*Dex Archer - Party
Duelist / ??
Finally, a build that might make use of Ranger, except...
The issue that this build (and other archers for that matter) has is stamina. About the only thing archers are good for are AoS and Scatter, which with sustains factored in, have a cumulative cost of 158. I checked out the numbers for one of my Dex Archers - at Lvl 14, with Dueling, Aim, and SoC active, she had 107 stamina available, barely enough for AoS. At Lvl 22 she had 139 free. Party composition and Talent redundancy arguments aside, unless you figure your wolf is more valuable than Scatter or your spider is more effective than AoS, (hint: they're not) you won't be able to use them anyway.

So there it is...Rangers are totally useless. 

d3c0yBoY wrote...
I've been currently testing a Duelist Strength Rogue and its been frighteningly effective. Fought two Reverents so far and you can see how fast it chews through their health. Hate to admit that I'm buying into the Duelist camp over Ranger. To compare, I reloaded with a Ranger and the pet was quickly dispatched (multiple tries on both builds), negating the purpose of the specialization. Melee wise, I would think with Str Duelist/Assassin as my new fave for Rogues. It's my guess Dex/Str Archer would be equally effective with Duelist/Ranger. Not a big fan of Cun builds myself but I will playtest to see how it feels.

Modifié par Random70, 12 août 2010 - 08:02 .

[beancounter501]

^LOL. Had to laugh at that picture.

Tested out MoD - it amps up damage from everything - spells & runes. Making it a very strong Tier 1 talent. It also has a decent range. Even though the rest of the talents for Assassin are not suited to an Archer - I would consider adding Assassin and just pick up the one talent. Especially if he is the only Rogue in the party. Against High HP bosses it could add up to a TON of extra damage. Have to try stacking Afflection Hex/Mark of Death on a Spell Might/Spell Wisp character to see some heavy damage numbers!  Now that is a Boss Killer.

On Pinpoint Strike. Still not sold 100%. With gear and talents your Rogue could hit an easy 35 -45% crit rate. Since I play either a Dex or Str Rogue the other three talent from Duelist is not that great. Nice for sure - but not amazing. Not sure I want to waste 4 talents to boost that crit rate from 40% to 100% for just 15 seconds. Once every 3 minutes. Plus you have lots of means to auto crit anyways - through Flanking and Stealth.

And Dex Archer could run Ranger easily. Aim & Dueling both activate fast and have a 2-5 second cooldown. Start the battle with Scatter Shot(it is an autohit anyways), then turn on either one. AoS comes with a hefty to hit bonus as well once you get Master Archer.

Modifié par beancounter501, 12 août 2010 - 12:26 .

[soteria]

I stopped to consider, for a moment, the groups I have actually played with. Str/dex rogue, Alistair, Wynne, and a "floater." SnS warrior, Wynne, Leliana, Sten. Mage, Leliana/Zevran, Shale, Oghren. Cunning rogue, Alistair, Morrigan, Dog. Archer warrior, Sten, Alistair (DW), Leliana. In every group, with the possible exception of the last, bard is a clear loser to ranger in terms of damage, and ranger adds more flexibility to the group.

[beancounter501]

d3c0yBoY wrote...

I've been currently testing a Duelist Strength Rogue and its been frighteningly effective. Fought two Reverents so far and you can see how fast it chews through their health. Hate to admit that I'm buying into the Duelist camp over Ranger. To compare, I reloaded with a Ranger and the pet was quickly dispatched (multiple tries on both builds), negating the purpose of the specialization. Melee wise, I would think with Str Duelist/Assassin as my new fave for Rogues. It's my guess Dex/Str Archer would be equally effective with Duelist/Ranger. Not a big fan of Cun builds myself but I will playtest to see how it feels.

What to kill Reverants so fast that your head spins?  How about a dex double dagger build.  Have a mage cast Flame Weapons and hit the Reverant with a Vulnerabilty Hex.  Then have your Rogue hit him with Mark of Death.  That scales Flame Weapons up to +41 - per hit!  Char fried Revernant coming right up.  Almost feels like cheating.

[beancounter501]

After do a lot of play testing it pains me to say that a dex Dagger Assassin/Duelist is the probably the top Rogue setup. That guy eats Reverants for Breakfast. And does not take that much damage. Still think Ranger is good and better then a Bard - but against bosses - he rocks.

So to quote Random70's sig - Woot - You Won! **** me! I am dumb! You have crushed me! - Wooz! - LOL - had to do that, I always laugh at your sig.  You and Yrkoon.

Edit: I should not drink a beer before coming in here.
Edit2: Just don't sig that! 

Modifié par beancounter501, 13 août 2010 - 12:07 .

[MEBengal2008]

soteria wrote...

The only reason I don't put Assassin in first is how useless it is for anyone who's not backstabbing.

Why bother with a rogue if you don't plan to backstab when in melee?

Each specialization offers something to the rogue class as does each of the specialization for warriors and mages. We all have our best and least favorite specializations.

For rogues I'm all about getting the maximum out of backstab. This leads me to a duelist/asassin. I select duelist specialization first for the extra +1 damage (which applies to both weapons when using 2) and the extra attack. I like Asassin specialization because it offers 3 very nice talents that are passive. My favorite of those 3 is Feast of the Fallen. Nothing like added Stamina for additional talent usage, which is especially true in DA Awakening.

[rayzorium]

There's plenty of reasons to not backstab - RP, soloing, unflankable enemies.



If you're trying to get the maximum out of backstab, then I don't think duelist is a good second choice. When you're backstabbing, you don't really need much attack to be able to hit consistently. I think picking Bard for Song of Courage would be better suited to your goals, especially since you're probably already focusing on cunning to back up Exploit Weakness.