85 réponses à ce sujet

[tj23wizard]

I'm just curious if anyone else was upset with the end of Mass Effect 2.  I felt that everything went at least smooth until the writers fell flat on their face by introducing something similar to the "Terminator".  (I let the "evil Shepherd" look slide - figuring it was a homage of sorts, and perhaps a moral comment when a man or woman reduces themselves to the level of a machine.)

But why in all the heavens build a machine in the form of a gigantic human?  There is no logical rhyme or reason, even within the universe of Mass Effect! All the other Reapers look identical. 

I can just imagine a hundred foot metal skeleton walking on Earth: "I am the vanguard of your destruction.";)

It felt like it was only done for was shock factor, and was laughable to the point of being totally absurd - even for science fiction. To me, it was the complete failing of an otherwise acceptable installment.


It reinforced my feeling that the writing of the second had fallen well short of the first.  While this is natural for a sequel, filling in the holes with protracted gun battles and severely overworked cliches smacks of desperation or indifference.

Did anyone else feel the same?

Modifié par tj23wizard, 06 août 2010 - 07:55 .

[Palladium_876]

I'm with you. That thing looked absolutely ridiculous.

[Jonathan Shepard]

It's been speculated the human-looking thing is just the "inside" core of the Reaper, and a squid-looking shell would've covered it, later in construction, due to the fact that the Human Reaper is only about he size of the Normandy, and all other Reapers are much larger. Each Reaper would then, according to EDI's speculation, have a different-looking core. The developers thought it'd be more shocking to see a more human-like Reaper... as a dark premonition of what we could become, possibly hinting at the "final choice" in ME3. But it was a huge annoyance back, oh, six months ago, when the game first came out. The forumites were all butthurt about it, myself included. WE've kinda accepted it now though...

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

I thought it looked really cool and always get excited vibes when I get to that part.



However I was never a big Terminator fan.

[Il Divo]

It didn't bother me any more or less than robo-Saren. They both honestly look idiotic, but I try to ignore it. Bioware hasn't designed a cool-looking boss since Jade Empire.

[Iakus]

tj23wizard wrote...

I'm just curious if anyone else was upset with the end of Mass Effect 2.  I felt that everything went at least smooth until the writers fell flat on their face by introducing something similar to the "Terminator".  (I let the "evil Shepherd" look slide - figuring it was a homage of sorts, and perhaps a moral comment when a man or woman reduces themselves to the level of a machine.)

But why in all the heavens build a machine in the form of a gigantic human?  There is no logical rhyme or reason, even within the universe of Mass Effect! All the other Reapers look identical. 

I can just imagine a hundred foot metal skeleton walking on Earth: "I am the vanguard of your destruction.";)

It felt like it was only done for was shock factor, and was laughable to the point of being totally absurd - even for science fiction. To me, it was the complete failing of an otherwise acceptable installment.


It reinforced my feeling that the writing of the second had fallen well short of the first.  While this is natural for a sequel, filling in the holes with protracted gun battles and severely overworked cliches smacks of desperation or indifference.

Did anyone else feel the same?

I was actually ashamed for Bioware when I first saw it.

I read in an interview that supposedly in ME 3, the reason for its appearance will be explained more.  I really hope that's true and not just more PR spin.

[Marzillius]

I thought it looked pretty awesome. I had a feeling that there would be a Reaper down there when I first played ME2, but I was caught totally by surprise when it looked like a human.

Modifié par Marzillius, 06 août 2010 - 08:50 .

[Kelwing]

Really didn't bother me when I first saw it. It actually made sense to me that is what a true Reaper would look like. Being the combined essence and look of the race that made it. Then with the massive ships built around the Reaper giving it the "cuttle fish" look and with each one being slightly different from each other in detail.

[Madman123456]

if they had the big terminator thingy claw his way through a big metaldoor one could have thought they where ripping off paying hommage to the SNES Probotector/Contra.



Another thought: maybe the big Human Machine is supposed to be the "Pilot" of a Reapership. Stupid, i know, but look at the Thing and tell me Bioware couldn't think of something like that.

[Matroska]

I agree that it was kind of camp and silly when you thought about it. However, I don't get why people say the writing of the first is some shining example of great storytelling. The plot is "Rogue government agent recruits army in order to break into a building and then summon an even more powerful army (thinking he's in control of the whole deal)".



It's pretty dull and flat, and it's told in only a few small parts. The majority of the game is very plain stuff like "Find my dead brother", "find my dead marines" and "bring my dead wife to me". The Saren/Geth/Reaper story is basically told in Eden Prime, Virmire, Ilios and the final stretch in the Citadel. Each section only says, respectively, "Saren makes geth army - he is evil", "Saren is trying to make a huge krogan army", "Saren is about to teleport himself and the geth into the Citadel" and "Saren and the Geth do indeed teleport themselves into the Citadel".



Everything else has nothing to do with the plot apart from the odd basic thing like ANOTHER "Saren tries to make an army from X race" with Benezia and the rachni,



I mean, I love the series but it's more for the setting and the gameplay rather than the specific stories told in each game, though I do obviously look forward to the conclusion in ME3.

[GnusmasTHX]

They shouldv'e let you climb on its arms and stab it on the neck and stuff. Shadow of the Colossus style.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 07 août 2010 - 12:35 .

[Mallissin]

I sighed, paused the game and realized there's some sicko writer somewhere laughing at us.

[NICKjnp]

When I saw it I thought to myself... this guy is named Soylent Green.

[kglaser]

OP, I shared your opinion (although I liked fighting it, and the whole last 1/2 hour of the game in general). I thought after the exciting buildup of ME1, the end of ME2 was kinda "WTF?".
I'm confident BioWare will come up with a fitting and satisfying conclusion for ME3.  how, I dunno.

Modifié par kglaser, 07 août 2010 - 01:07 .

[Khirzask]

I dunno, I thought it was pretty cool. If anything it reminded me of the Borg Queen. Since the Collectors were harvesting humans, it seemed only fitting that the Reaper they were creating resembled a human. Though, humans resemble a lot of other races (at least at the level of basic skeletal shape) and the proto-Reaper did have 4 eyes, similar to a Collector.



I'm sure it's been theorized before why the Collectors chose humans (easier to gooify, colonies easy for the taking, whatever) and why they were building a Reaper to begin with (probably to float on over to the Citadel and activate it - survival wasn't important, just opening the relay so that the rest of the Reapers didn't have to schlep it 80,000 light-years from their secret hideout in dark space at standard FTL speeds. No matter how advanced they are, that's gonna take a while and the galaxy is already apparently overdue for a reaping).



Was it creepy and disturbing the first time I saw it? Hell yes it was. Was it a complex and challenging boss fight? Not exactly, but then again the Reaper isn't anywhere near finished (and thus nowhere near full strength). Does it really matter? Meh. I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'd imagine if we're going to get "answers" about the exact nature of the Human Reaper, it'll come in some kind of intelligence debriefing near the beginning of ME3. But given how Shepard [perhaps] blew the Collector base to Kingdom Come, it doesn't even really matter anymore because it's all a cloud of vapor the size of the moon. Even if the base wasn't destroyed, the Reaper is a pile of processed colonists and scrap metal now. If you saved the base, maybe TIM delivers a few lines about the motives behind the Reaper.

[Myrmedus]

Personally, I loved it, and I get a little bored of people constantly quoting "Terminator" as if James Cameron has copyright protection on the human skeleton. I don't mean that offensively but perhaps you should try to think of it as a robotic construct of the human form rather than strictly a giant Terminator, heh. People have short memories, there were plenty of innovative movies before Terminator that had humanoid machine characters...you could argue Terminator is equally a rip-off of those.

I found it far, FAR more creepy to fight than a squid-looking enemy. Sometimes, making an enemy completely alien is creepy, and it works perfectly for the Reapers especially in ME1. With Sovereign it's perfect because in ME1 the Reapers are completely unknown and unknowable so a very alien structure is perfect.

However, with ME2, the Reapers are more known to us now and the entire plot is essentially about an connection between the Reapers and humans that obviously culminates in this twist. Therefore, it wouldn't have had the same dramatic effect to make it just look like a mini-Sovereign because the "visual link" between that Reaper and the humans being used to create it wouldn't be there. The Human-Reaper is essentially a child of the Reapers and humanity so its visage is fitting; it's meant to be a spectre (no pun intended!) of what humanity could become if the Reapers got their hands on us and personally, if you thought about it while fighting it, you are actually killing a HUMAN when you fight it because by and large its physical essence is human.

Personally, I think it's excellent. I can't say the same for the battle though, it should've been ALOT harder and the only weak point should've been its mouth. Think your typical SNES-game final bosses whose only weakness required your character to be in the line of fire of their ultimate attack.

I also don't think cover should've worked against its attack - I think the boxes there should've been destroyed by its laser.

And as for its motives I imagine it was intended to replace Sovereign. It also seems that the Reapers specifically wanted Shepard to be a part of it so I reckon they chose humanity to be a part of their race due to killing Sovereign, hence the Human-Reaper

Modifié par Myrmedus, 07 août 2010 - 02:39 .

[pvt_java]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

It's been speculated the human-looking thing is just the "inside" core of the Reaper, and a squid-looking shell would've covered it, later in construction, due to the fact that the Human Reaper is only about he size of the Normandy, and all other Reapers are much larger. Each Reaper would then, according to EDI's speculation, have a different-looking core. The developers thought it'd be more shocking to see a more human-like Reaper... as a dark premonition of what we could become, possibly hinting at the "final choice" in ME3. But it was a huge annoyance back, oh, six months ago, when the game first came out. The forumites were all butthurt about it, myself included. WE've kinda accepted it now though...

This seriously. Anyone who thinks that the Human-Reaper was going to look like a giant Terminator flying through space is really thick.

[Whatever42]

Wow... the human reaper resembles a terminator and all of a sudden the final mission sucks. I know its cool to find fault but seriously... Its a good final boss story-wise and it fits well. However, I do agree with those who say the fight was too easy and straightforward.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 07 août 2010 - 05:06 .

[didymos1120]

tj23wizard wrote...
 All the other Reapers look identical. 

Grrrr...  <_<

No.  No they don't.  They are very similar, but they are not identical.  There's actually a fair amount of variation when it comes to the details:



The contours and dimensions of the hulls, the leg configurations, the number and location of the "eyes":  all vary.  Yes, they do seem to look identical within a particular sub-type of Reaper, but there are also clearly a number of distinct "families" And, though it's hard to tell, what with the more distant ones, I don't think any of them are of exactly the same "make and model" as Sovereign (I'm not sure about the mostly visible one on the far right in the top image though.  It's definitely close).  The derelict on the other hand did seem to be a "sibling" of Sovvy's.

I do get your point: the Larva didn't look like a starship.  It just bugs the hell out of me when people call them identical.

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 août 2010 - 05:14 .

[The Unfallen]

Agreed. I am actually glad the Reapers each have their own "personalities" didymos, per se, and they weren't just an army of Sovereigns, it actually makes the ME universe even more immersible and interesting than it already was. I assume this will pave the way for many vastly different Reaper shapes, sizes, and personalities, more characters. Yay! Maybe even a badass looking villain, which brings me back to Ascension.



Yes, it was shocking at first, but as I played along it only got more ridiculous, however, it did shock me when it pops up to attack you again, like "ZOMG Ascension's back!" The larva would've been much cooler if it had maybe been Human sized, and pursued you throughout the game, and it would've been even cooler if it had talked and such and been ME2's Saren, that is what I was kinda hoping, but... oh well... beggars can't be choosers.

[didymos1120]

Myrmedus wrote...

 People have short memories, there were plenty of innovative movies before Terminator that had humanoid machine characters...you could argue Terminator is equally a rip-off of those.

Terminator definitely owes a fair amount to Westworld.  Yul Brynner's relentless, dead-eyed killer-robot-with-a-removable-human-face, the "Gunslinger", is very reminiscent of the Terminator (or rather, vice versa).  There are even "robovision" POV sequences as he targets and tracks people, and there's a scene that has a lot in common with the whole endoskeleton sequence in the original Terminator:

Modifié par didymos1120, 07 août 2010 - 05:48 .

[Missouri Tigers]

I just didn't like how anticlimatic it was.  You spend the entire game hunting down this Collector base, you kill all the collectors and want to destory this base which housed the evil Collectors, who were working for the Reapers.  Now, you see this weird-looking giant human which would be very little threat to you, considering YOU WERE ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE BASE ANYWAY.  The best way to end it would to be to learn that the missing humans were being used to build a Reaper.  This human reaper would be seen in it's primitive stage, but it wouldn't be concious yet and wouldn't move at all, it's still being built.  You choose to either destory the base or keep it while killing everything, then have 5 minutes to get out.  Harbinger blocks off the way you came, so you have to find another way out, which is shown in the cutscene.  You fight your way through collectors with the time limit counting down until you reach the Normandy.  Your guys holding the door go back to the Normandy on their own, some folks dying, and as you enter the final stretch it triggers the final cutscene where you run and shoot bad guys as Harbinger talks in cool ways.  You escape, tIM conversation, cutscene, credits, the end.  No cheesy, forced boss battle, still cool ending.

[Canned Bullets]

Missouri Tigers wrote...

I just didn't like how anticlimatic it was.  You spend the entire game hunting down this Collector base, you kill all the collectors and want to destory this base which housed the evil Collectors, who were working for the Reapers.  Now, you see this weird-looking giant human which would be very little threat to you, considering YOU WERE ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE BASE ANYWAY.  The best way to end it would to be to learn that the missing humans were being used to build a Reaper.  This human reaper would be seen in it's primitive stage, but it wouldn't be concious yet and wouldn't move at all, it's still being built.  You choose to either destory the base or keep it while killing everything, then have 5 minutes to get out.  Harbinger blocks off the way you came, so you have to find another way out, which is shown in the cutscene.  You fight your way through collectors with the time limit counting down until you reach the Normandy.  Your guys holding the door go back to the Normandy on their own, some folks dying, and as you enter the final stretch it triggers the final cutscene where you run and shoot bad guys as Harbinger talks in cool ways.  You escape, tIM conversation, cutscene, credits, the end.  No cheesy, forced boss battle, still cool ending.

That actually sounds like a better ending, without the time limit though, a time limit such as that would just be annoying.

[thegreateski]

"Oh . . . good . . . and here I thought it would be some sort of eldritch abomination that would drive me insane just by looking at it."