85 réponses à ce sujet

[Myrmedus]

Canned Bullets wrote...

Missouri Tigers wrote...

I just didn't like how anticlimatic it was.  You spend the entire game hunting down this Collector base, you kill all the collectors and want to destory this base which housed the evil Collectors, who were working for the Reapers.  Now, you see this weird-looking giant human which would be very little threat to you, considering YOU WERE ABOUT TO BLOW UP THE BASE ANYWAY.  The best way to end it would to be to learn that the missing humans were being used to build a Reaper.  This human reaper would be seen in it's primitive stage, but it wouldn't be concious yet and wouldn't move at all, it's still being built.  You choose to either destory the base or keep it while killing everything, then have 5 minutes to get out.  Harbinger blocks off the way you came, so you have to find another way out, which is shown in the cutscene.  You fight your way through collectors with the time limit counting down until you reach the Normandy.  Your guys holding the door go back to the Normandy on their own, some folks dying, and as you enter the final stretch it triggers the final cutscene where you run and shoot bad guys as Harbinger talks in cool ways.  You escape, tIM conversation, cutscene, credits, the end.  No cheesy, forced boss battle, still cool ending.

That actually sounds like a better ending, without the time limit though, a time limit such as that would just be annoying.

The only thing is: the fact you kill the Reaper is almost like another Reaper to add to the list that Shepard has killed. Yeah ok, it was an infant, but it still immortalizes your character even further.

[DaBigDragon]

I figured that was just the core of the Reaper and every Reaper has a unique looking core to it based on the species it was made from.

[Nightwriter]

Teclo wrote...

I agree that it was kind of camp and silly when you thought about it. However, I don't get why people say the writing of the first is some shining example of great storytelling. The plot is "Rogue government agent recruits army in order to break into a building and then summon an even more powerful army (thinking he's in control of the whole deal)".

It's pretty dull and flat, and it's told in only a few small parts. The majority of the game is very plain stuff like "Find my dead brother", "find my dead marines" and "bring my dead wife to me". The Saren/Geth/Reaper story is basically told in Eden Prime, Virmire, Ilios and the final stretch in the Citadel. Each section only says, respectively, "Saren makes geth army - he is evil", "Saren is trying to make a huge krogan army", "Saren is about to teleport himself and the geth into the Citadel" and "Saren and the Geth do indeed teleport themselves into the Citadel".

Everything else has nothing to do with the plot apart from the odd basic thing like ANOTHER "Saren tries to make an army from X race" with Benezia and the rachni,

I mean, I love the series but it's more for the setting and the gameplay rather than the specific stories told in each game, though I do obviously look forward to the conclusion in ME3.

I've never said ME1 was the crown jewel of storytelling, and I don't think many here have either. It was just way better than ME2.

ME1's story engaged me and I liked it. I can honestly say I at least knew what was happening at each stage and felt involved with the progression of events.

ME2 I drifted through in a bit of a fog, jumping at strange shapes that leapt out at me from the gloom, wondering where I was and how to get back to Kansas.

Miranda told me there was a wizard who sat around smoking cigarettes who could help me, so I went to see him, but he told me he wouldn't help me unless I got him the Wicked Witch's broom, which turned out to be an alien base.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I disagree, I personally didn't find ME 1 engaging except in the beggining or until the end. The setup of the game completely busted a proper storytelling chain.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 07 août 2010 - 10:28 .

[Nightwriter]

Still applies. Instead you just say ME2 busted up a proper storytelling chain way worse than ME1 busted up a proper storytelling chain. Besides, ME1 had a sense of thoroughness to it that ME2 lacked.

[Sailears]

It was ok. Personally I would have preferred the human reaper to be in the style of the concept art (pages 14/15 of the collector's edition art book?) - far more scary than a gigantic metallic construct.

[Nightwriter]

Also: people don't think the human Reaper was stupid just because it looked like a Terminator. That just added to it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Not really. ME 2 follows a linear chain, Event 1 - Event 2 - Event 3 - Event 4



This allows for proper build up and set placement.



ME 1 was



Event 1 - Event 2 - Choose event - Choose Event - Choose event - choose event - Event 7 -Event 8



In the middle sequence you are pretty much at a standstill in regards to the storyline.



Info here here and here, and after you do a couple events, get info here



It all comes together in a strange way after you have done all of the event missions which completely makes it seems like the game has a beginning and end but no real middle

[Nightwriter]

I disagree.

ME2 ruined things by making the entire game about one event, when a story is a series of events.

You generally shouldn't reveal the biggest points in a story before they happen. But in ME2, they tell you point blank what the final mission will be 10 minutes into the game.

In ME1 I had no clue what the final mission was going to be. I was discovering things as I went along. Which is what a story does.

In ME2, the whole game was just preparation for a prearranged appointment. Recruit three people, tiny plot mission, recruit three people, tiny plot mission. No plot worlds, mind you - just plot missions. Which is a bit of a downgrade.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't see how they are different, ME 1 you had the end goal of taking down Saren, the only wrench was that you have to take down his ship. In ME 2 you have the end goal of going through the Omega 4 relay, the wrench in that is whether or not to destroy the base or salvage it

[Bluko]

DaBigDragon wrote...

I figured that was just the core of the Reaper and every Reaper has a unique looking core to it based on the species it was made from.

Yep I would surmise this as well. I don't find it hard to believe considering that no two Reapers look alike. I would assume inside each Reaper lies the infant body of the original species. Then rest of the Reaper body is simply a shell that's grown/built around that. So the variation in the Reapers appearence is caused by them originating from different species.

Also having a sense of scale to just how small the Human Reaper Larva is helps as well.

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't see how they are different, ME 1 you had the end goal of taking down Saren, the only wrench was that you have to take down his ship. In ME 2 you have the end goal of going through the Omega 4 relay, the wrench in that is whether or not to destroy the base or salvage it

All I can say is that in ME1 I felt like I was participating in the story and in ME2 I felt like I was moving through it on a conveyor belt.

It's got little to do with being linear or nonlinear and everything to do with how well they told the story.

Linearity or nonlinearity alone don't make a story interesting or uninteresting. The other reasons are more important.

[Nerdage]

You don't really know that the thing is actually a reaper-in-progress, that's just EDI's hypothesis. I think Sovereign tells you on Vermire that reapers aren't built, they just are, or something like that. Why Sovereign would tell you the truth I'm not sure, but I'm not sure why it would lie either. It could just be part of another attempt to open the citadel relay, but that doesn't really answer any questions, it just chages them, not to mention creates new ones...

[Mallissin]

I think the idea of them trying to make a human reaper is interesting, but making it look like a terminator was stupid. They can't possibly want humans for any organ besides our brains, so why not cut down on the amount of material needed and only build a human-reaper brain with a typical insect-style reaper around it?



Why waste tons of humans building body parts that don't matter?

[Nightwriter]

Mallissin wrote...

I think the idea of them trying to make a human reaper is interesting, but making it look like a terminator was stupid. They can't possibly want humans for any organ besides our brains, so why not cut down on the amount of material needed and only build a human-reaper brain with a typical insect-style reaper around it?

Why waste tons of humans building body parts that don't matter?

Well I always wondered if its human form was just symbolic. Like, the goo doesn't necessarily make the Reaper look human - rather, the Reapers choose to build it that way. It's a design choice.

They sort of talk about harvesting as an almost spiritual thing. "Ascension", "perfection", "absorbing the essence" of the race.

[NanQuan]

I don't have a problem with the human reaper. I get the literary and plot significance and I appreciate what Bioware was trying to say at the end of the game.



The only thing that bothers me about the boss is that it's too easy. I got excited when I saw that the scale of the reaper would likely result in an epic battle, but that wasn't quite so. It's no fun if you don't take any damage the whole fight and just put down the end boss with no trouble.

[Deathspazm]

I think that the Reaper Larva was fine,was it to easy well not really,after a few playthroughs when you figure out what is going to work best on it it gets easier I still usually lose my squad mates at least once when the collectors interupt me killing it.I also didnt realize there were other weak spots till about my 3rd playthough,always thought you had to hit the chest.I also usually play soldier class so far,just change things up and bring different people with me usually Miranda and Samara or Jack or Tali,Finding out reave is a good bonus skill to have as a soldier as it helps takes barriers and armor down so you other biotics or techs can do some damage with their skills.

[Mallissin]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well I always wondered if its human form was just symbolic. Like, the goo doesn't necessarily make the Reaper look human - rather, the Reapers choose to build it that way. It's a design choice.

They sort of talk about harvesting as an almost spiritual thing. "Ascension", "perfection", "absorbing the essence" of the race.

Maybe, but it's a larva. Why couldn't they make it look like a giant, evil mechanical baby? Baby's are mostly head, thus mostly brain...and it wouldn't look like a terminator. Babies also always spitting out their food at you too, so the nuke spit would seem less silly too.

Then they'd roll out a DLC about how the baby was yours and the Council would have you arrested for child abuse.

[Super ._. Shepard]

it was a terminator

[BatarianBob]

tj23wizard wrote...

But why in all the heavens build a machine in the form of a gigantic human?  There is no logical rhyme or reason, even within the universe of Mass Effect! All the other Reapers look identical. 

I can just imagine a hundred foot metal skeleton walking on Earth: "I am the vanguard of your destruction.";)

It looked ridiculous, no doubt about that, but these are non-issues.  The game was very clear on how it wasn't finished.  EDI compares it to an embryo.

It's safe to assume that it would have been more Reaper-like in both size and shape when it was finished.

[Nightwriter]

It wasn't really about how it looked for me, though that was silly.

It was that it came out of nowhere and the logic behind it makes you go:




"Well you see, they turned humans into goo, and they drank the goo, and now they have absorbed the essence of humanity and as you can see drinking the goo gave it human form."



It's like saying, "I turned a dog into goo and drank the goo and now I am dog incarnate! I have the dog's memories! I know why I must chase my tail! I understand the rapture of fetch! My body is now going to slowly turn into the form of a dog!"

I just don't understand.

[Mallissin]

Nightwriter wrote...
It's like saying, "I turned a dog into goo and drank the goo and now I am dog incarnate! I have the dog's memories! I know why I must chase my tail! I understand the rapture of fetch! My body is now going to slowly turn into the form of a dog!"

I just don't understand.

Watch District 9 and all will become clear.

What I don't understand is why they needed to melt the humans down. Why couldn't they just abduct some porn addicts and farm them for human goo? It would be like the Matrix and A Boy and his Dog mixed together.

But I digress, anyone else get creeped out when Night said she drinks dog goo?

[Alien1099]

Nightwriter wrote...

It wasn't really about how it looked for me, though that was silly.

It was that it came out of nowhere and the logic behind it makes you go:




"Well you see, they turned humans into goo, and they drank the goo, and now they have absorbed the essence of humanity and as you can see drinking the goo gave it human form."



It's like saying, "I turned a dog into goo and drank the goo and now I am dog incarnate! I have the dog's memories! I know why I must chase my tail! I understand the rapture of fetch! My body is now going to slowly turn into the form of a dog!"

I just don't understand.

As Vigil said, the motives of a machine race are supposed to be beyond the comprehension/understanding of organics. For some reason the Reapers (machine race) see it as a way of preserving/ascending humanity. Your analogy is pretty poor. Taking the dog's genetic material and drinking it doesn't reconstruct it into anything else. Your body would digest it and pass it through your system. The reapers take genetic material and reprocess it and use it to construct new reapers, which are sentient biomechanical machines.

Modifié par Alien1099, 08 août 2010 - 07:46 .

[Perturabo100]

Watch District 9 and all will become clear.

What I don't understand is why they needed to melt the humans down. Why couldn't they just abduct some porn addicts and farm them for human goo? It would be like the Matrix and A Boy and his Dog mixed together.

But I digress, anyone else get creeped out when Night said she drinks dog goo?

LOL!..   /Thread

Modifié par Perturabo100, 08 août 2010 - 07:51 .

[izmirtheastarach]

At the end of the day, it was traditional end boss. As we all know, the first game to feature an end boss was the groundbreaking classic Bioshock. Until that came out, games did not have end bosses ever. They just sort of stopped when the programmers ran out of time and released the game.