198 réponses à ce sujet

[burrito]

Just because Leliana is Queen doesn't mean she would be involved in politics. People would still know it's a Fereldan in charge.

[Saibh]

burrito wrote...

Just because Leliana is Queen doesn't mean she would be involved in politics. People would still know it's a Fereldan in charge.

Technically male Cousland is made King-Consort, and he still has substantial power over the throne. The title wouldn't convince anyone--and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want half-Orlesian heirs.

[burrito]

Alyka wrote...

burrito wrote...

It's possible? The male warden would be more popular then anora at this point.  He doesnt like being a consort, plays some venetian politics, anora is gone and the warden puts his mistress on the throne.  No one going cause your a hero and a cousland. Loghain going to be pissed but atleast he's in orlais. 

Hmm.I don't know if that would work because if your female PC isn't a Cousland, you can't be princess consort with Alistair, just his mistress.So the same might work with male Cousland/no Anora.And word would get around that Leliana is from Orlais even though her mother was a Fereldan.That's scandalous.Not many Fereldan's would go for that.A civil war might break out.
Why would Loghain be in Orlais? Unless you drug him, drop him off and leave him stranded there as punishment.lol
Or maybe his "time has come" like the Grey Warden's except he's going to Orlais to try and put away as many Chevaliers as he can before 10 jump out from a bush and stab him all at once.

If you let Loghain live he'll end up going to Orlais in Awakening.

[StreetlightEagle]

The idea of being forced to choose between Alistair and a childless Anora still confuses me. If Ferelden was actually Medieval England then neither would have a claim to the throne as Alistair is a bastard and Anora presumably has no trace of royal blood. Even Alistair himself says arl Eamon has more of a claim so you should have been able to choose him or Fergus to become king, especially over Anora.

[Saibh]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

The idea of being forced to choose between Alistair and a childless Anora still confuses me. If Ferelden was actually Medieval England then neither would have a claim to the throne as Alistair is a bastard and Anora presumably has no trace of royal blood. Even Alistair himself says arl Eamon has more of a claim so you should have been able to choose him or Fergus to become king, especially over Anora.

I'm confused where you're rationalizing this.

Anora is a teyrn's daughter and wife of the deceased king. That's her claim. Also, we don't know that she's barren; it could have been Cailan.

Alistair is a prince--a bastard prince, but the only remaining heir to the bloodline that created their country. Him saying that Eamon has a stronger claim is just him in denial. Eamon himself debunks the claim.

And, again, Ferelden =/= medieval England.

[burrito]

I think Fereldan is more Anglo Saxon England, but I might be wrong.

[StreetlightEagle]

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

[Dave of Canada]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children.

Because they don't know about Alistair's existance and when they DO find out (and you left Anora as solo-queen and accepted Loghain) then you'd find uprisings against the throne in Alistair's name (although it's unknown if he was involved)

[Saibh]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

Because she's the legal queen of Ferelden? Because she ruled the country well and they want stability, not the usurption of power?

The fact that they're even willing to consider Alistair, a bastard they never knew about who has no training in the art of governance, shows how much they want the blood of Calenhad on the throne.

Ultimately, though, your goal is to overthrow Loghain--you simply pick which of the best two options you have will do a better job.

And "royal" is not the same as "noble". The Cousland line is older than Calenhad's. But they've never been monarchs. The Theirin's have ruled their country since it was a country. That's a lot of staying power.

[StreetlightEagle]

Dave of Canada wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children.

Because they don't know about Alistair's existance and when they DO find out (and you left Anora as solo-queen and accepted Loghain) then you'd find uprisings against the throne in Alistair's name (although it's unknown if he was involved)

Misses my original point though. I'm arguing that it shouldn't have been a decision between an illegitimate son and a farmer's daughter. I don't get why the throne isn't disputed more than it actually is in game. Then again, they let a grey warden decide the entire fate of their royal line so I suppose they can't care that much.

[Arijharn]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

I agree. Although the people love and value Anora, it doesn't seem like they truly desire her as their regent... otherwise she wouldn't need the support of the Grey Warden. Having said that, it seems that only Arl Eamon was the one going on about the legacy of Calahad.

As a matter of interest, I was wrong... it was 3 letters in RtO, and not the 5 that I thought. Of them, only the third was written in a 'familiar' tone (which true doesn't mean anything in and of itself) however, what does this line mean to you?

'[...]Once that is done we can further discuss a permanent alliance between Orlais and Ferelden.

-- "A note written in an uncharacteristally familiar tone from Empress Celene to King Cailan"'

A more 'permanent alliance'? What could that mean other than some form of arranged marriage (given context: 'uncharacteristically 'familiar' tone and the fact that the note looked scrunched up and smoothly folded again). Your ability to read into it is as good as mine.

[StreetlightEagle]

Saibh wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

Because she's the legal queen of Ferelden? Because she ruled the country well and they want stability, not the usurption of power?

The fact that they're even willing to consider Alistair, a bastard they never knew about who has no training in the art of governance, shows how much they want the blood of Calenhad on the throne.

Ultimately, though, your goal is to overthrow Loghain--you simply pick which of the best two options you have will do a better job.

And "royal" is not the same as "noble". The Cousland line is older than Calenhad's. But they've never been monarchs. The Theirin's have ruled their country since it was a country. That's a lot of staying power.

No, she is queen consort (or she should be, anyway) as she is merely the wife of the ruling monarch. When the king dies and is left without an heir, the throne should be disputed and not just left to someone who isn't really a noble. 

I'm not saying royal is the same as noble, just that through many generations the kings of Fereldan would have married their daughters to their most loyal Teyrns and Arls and considering the Cousland's are one such ancient noble house, they will have a degree of royal blood. More than Anora has anyhow. 

[Saibh]

Arijharn wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

I agree. Although the people love and value Anora, it doesn't seem like they truly desire her as their regent... otherwise she wouldn't need the support of the Grey Warden. Having said that, it seems that only Arl Eamon was the one going on about the legacy of Calahad.

As a matter of interest, I was wrong... it was 3 letters in RtO, and not the 5 that I thought. Of them, only the third was written in a 'familiar' tone (which true doesn't mean anything in and of itself) however, what does this line mean to you?

'[...]Once that is done we can further discuss a permanent alliance between Orlais and Ferelden.

-- "A note written in an uncharacteristally familiar tone from Empress Celene to King Cailan"'

A more 'permanent alliance'? What could that mean other than some form of arranged marriage (given context: 'uncharacteristically 'familiar' tone and the fact that the note looked scrunched up and smoothly folded again). Your ability to read into it is as good as mine.

You realize that Anora can win the Landsmeet over, right? So long as you haven't been running around doing them favors.

Again. Cailan would never marry the Orlesian Empress. If he tried Ferelden would go bat**** crazy.

Honestly, me and some others have said our piece on why she's a viable option, and why Cailan wouldn't marry Celene. I have nothing more to add; look no further than the game for evidence.

[Bobad]

Saibh wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

I agree. Although the people love and value Anora, it doesn't seem like they truly desire her as their regent... otherwise she wouldn't need the support of the Grey Warden. Having said that, it seems that only Arl Eamon was the one going on about the legacy of Calahad.

As a matter of interest, I was wrong... it was 3 letters in RtO, and not the 5 that I thought. Of them, only the third was written in a 'familiar' tone (which true doesn't mean anything in and of itself) however, what does this line mean to you?

'[...]Once that is done we can further discuss a permanent alliance between Orlais and Ferelden.

-- "A note written in an uncharacteristally familiar tone from Empress Celene to King Cailan"'

A more 'permanent alliance'? What could that mean other than some form of arranged marriage (given context: 'uncharacteristically 'familiar' tone and the fact that the note looked scrunched up and smoothly folded again). Your ability to read into it is as good as mine.

You realize that Anora can win the Landsmeet over, right? So long as you haven't been running around doing them favors.

Again. Cailan would never marry the Orlesian Empress. If he tried Ferelden would go bat**** crazy.

Honestly, me and some others have said our piece on why she's a viable option, and why Cailan wouldn't marry Celene. I have nothing more to add; look no further than the game for evidence.

It wouldn't happen, although I do love the medievel (therefore somewhat believable in context) attitude that a lack of heir is purely Anora's fault.  Male infertility being a taboo question

[StreetlightEagle]

Yeah in a medieval novel I read, a lord still had no heirs after nine consecutive wives so he became convinced that all of his wives were barren so a witch must have cursed him. No question of whether or not he might be lacking in the reproduction department.

[Saibh]

Bobad wrote...

It wouldn't happen, although I do love the medievel (therefore somewhat believable in context) attitude that a lack of heir is purely Anora's fault.  Male infertility being a taboo question

Of course, it's always fair to note that Cailan is the royal, not Anora. They can't get rid of him, so it's better to blame it on her.

[MKDAWUSS]

Saibh wrote...

StreetlightEagle wrote...

No, if Cailan had given her an heir before he died she would have had the right to sit on the throne as regent till her child came of age. If Ferelden's care so deeply about having 'the blood of Calenhad' on the throne, why are they willing to give it to Anora who is the daughter of a base-born man and has no royal children. As they are ancient royal families, the Cousland's and Guerrin's surely have some royal blood therefore have more of a claim.

Because she's the legal queen of Ferelden? Because she ruled the country well and they want stability, not the usurption of power?

The fact that they're even willing to consider Alistair, a bastard they never knew about who has no training in the art of governance, shows how much they want the blood of Calenhad on the throne.

Ultimately, though, your goal is to overthrow Loghain--you simply pick which of the best two options you have will do a better job.

And "royal" is not the same as "noble". The Cousland line is older than Calenhad's. But they've never been monarchs. The Theirin's have ruled their country since it was a country. That's a lot of staying power.

There might be some Theirin blood in there, you never know. Could be the sister of the Theirin monarch who married a Cousland and had kids.

[Riona45]

StreetlightEagle wrote...
Misses my original point though. I'm arguing that it shouldn't have been a decision between an illegitimate son and a farmer's daughter. I don't get why the throne isn't disputed more than it actually is in game. Then again, they let a grey warden decide the entire fate of their royal line so I suppose they can't care that much.

To argue that Anora was a farmer's daughter is grasping at straws, I think.  She was born to Loghain after he was made a Teyrn by King Maric.  She was raised as a Teyrn's daughter, given the best education possible and was betrothed to Cailan at a very young age.  That is pretty high status right there. 

Saibh already gave a good explanation as to why she is considered to have a legitimate claim to the throne.

Modifié par Riona45, 10 août 2010 - 01:46 .

[Riona45]

MKDAWUSS wrote...
There might be some Theirin blood in there, you never know. Could be the sister of the Theirin monarch who married a Cousland and had kids.

I'll admit that I have no dev quotes on hand, but it has been stated by the devs that the Couslands are not royal and have no claim to the throne--at least, not a stronger claim than any other noble family.  I'm aware of the bit about Bryce Cousland, but even if he was a serious contender (I'm not going to comment since I'm not an "expert" on that), that still would likely only apply to him, and he's not there.

After all, this question about the "Cousland claim to the throne" and whether or not they have royal blood has popped up many times in the past.

Modifié par Riona45, 10 août 2010 - 02:00 .

[Riona45]

burrito wrote...

It's possible? The male warden would be more popular then anora at this point.  He doesnt like being a consort, plays some venetian politics, anora is gone and the warden puts his mistress on the throne.  No one going cause your a hero and a cousland.

You think no one would care about the sudden death of the reigning monarch, who by the way is stated to be loved by both commoners and the nobility?  That's pretty delusional I'd say.

[Aedan_Cousland]

burrito wrote...

well she was born in fereldan so that could be a justification.

Leliana's father is Orlesian and she was raised in Orlais. She's culturally Orlesian and it's likely people view her as being more ethnically Orlesian as well, since medieval cultures generally gave more weight to the father's nationality. Additionally, while her mother may have been from Ferelden, it sounds as if her mother's family were collaborating with the Orlesian occupation. Her mother served an Orlesian noblewoman in Ferelden during the occupation, and had to leave Ferelden for Orlais when the country was liberated. I don't believe Leliana ever mentions specifically what Lady Cecile's purpose was in Ferelden, but as a noblewoman it's likely she was part of the court of King Meghren, the Orlesian puppet king on the Ferelden throne and a cousin to the Emperor of Orlais.

None of those things is very likely to make Leliana a popular Queen.

Additionally the Warden has no legitimate claim to the throne himself and Anora is enormously popular. She can't be knocked off or sidelined without consequences.  If the Warden usurped power from Anora he'd be opposed by many of the banns, just as Loghain was opposed by the bannorn when he went on a power grab. Being the hero of Ferelden carries a lot of political weight behind it but it isn't a get out of jail free card, as Loghain learned the hard way. One moment you could easily by the country's hero and the next it's villain.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 10 août 2010 - 03:32 .

[Arijharn]

The strangest thing about any prospect of the Cousland's was what I brought up a couple of pages back... although it's obviously something that I don't think the writers or anything really thought about.

[Riona45]

Arijharn wrote...

The strangest thing about any prospect of the Cousland's was what I brought up a couple of pages back... although it's obviously something that I don't think the writers or anything really thought about.

Could you quote that here?  I'm curious.

[stevej713]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

The idea of being forced to choose between Alistair and a childless Anora still confuses me. If Ferelden was actually Medieval England then neither would have a claim to the throne as Alistair is a bastard and Anora presumably has no trace of royal blood. Even Alistair himself says arl Eamon has more of a claim so you should have been able to choose him or Fergus to become king, especially over Anora.

Did you completely overlook the fact that Anora is the widow of Cailan?

[Saibh]

Arijharn wrote...

The one thing that always puzzled me is if you were playing a Cousland and you said you wanted riches and a title, why the king/queen would grant you the titles and lands held by Loghain.

This would be a ridiculously stupid thing to do if you were playing a Cousland, because then you'd have two Couslands controlling the north and south of Ferelden and could essentially force the Ferelden equivalent of the Magna Carte.

Riona, I think that's what he means.

Personally, I don't find it that odd--you are the Hero of Ferelden, after all. You ask for one thing for all the hardships you've endured, the reward for saving the country and ending the Blight and putting the reigning monarch on the throne. This is your boon.

Still, I see your point. You can be Queen of Ferelden, Teyrna of Gwaren, Arlessa of Amaranthine, and heir of Highever. Seriously, a Cousland can pretty much own Ferelden.