180 réponses à ce sujet

[Zevais]

This is just speculation. I believe it is quite a possibility. Deception and high profile lover's quarrals and problems with governments seem to be a trend both share. Flemeth does give off the vibe that she likes to have things planned out, and people are often creatures of habit... perhaps so much to keep getting into similar situations... perhaps even on purpose. She may enjoy the grandeur; I definitely believe so from her attitude and strut.

I am making this topic with the expectation that it will probably get flamed or bashed. I am just curious to see actual responses.

[Dileos]

Zevais wrote...

This is just speculation. I believe it is quite a possibility. Deception and high profile lover's quarrals and problems with governments seem to be a trend both share. Flemeth does give off the vibe that she likes to have things planned out, and people are often creatures of habit... perhaps so much to keep getting into similar situations... perhaps even on purpose. She may enjoy the grandeur; I definitely believe so from her attitude and strut.

I am making this topic with the expectation that it will probably get flamed or bashed. I am just curious to see actual responses.

She just doesn't give off the kind of vibe one would expect from a holy symbol like Andraste.

But like most religions, things aren't always as bright and happy as they seem.

[Bahlgan]

I will take into consideration that you say it is a speculation.



If she were actually Andraste, she wouldn't have involved herself with Morrigan's plans to intercede her life and/or hunt down the Templars; those who praise her own religion. Even if this is not the case, there is always the benevolence you gain from Andraste's ashes in The Gauntlet. All I got from Flemeth was more and more confusion.

[Zevais]

see below

Modifié par Zevais, 07 août 2010 - 05:56 .

[Kimarous]

This theory has a long of questions attached to it.

1) What about the Urn of Sacred Ashes? How do they factor into this theory?
2) What about the ash wraiths in the temple that speak of her so fondly? Flemeth doesn't exactly seem to fit those traits...
3) While Flemeth is clearly anti-Blight, when has she ever seemed pro-Maker? Heck, when has she ever seemed anti-Tevinter? She CLEARLY isn't anti-magic...

Modifié par Kimarous, 07 août 2010 - 05:55 .

[Zevais]

People placed Andraste on a pedastool. She is likely a powerful mage... sorta points to Flemeth. Who knows how much she actually cared about her followers. She may have put herself up for a grand show.



Flemeth could be older than Andraste for all we know... she does move from body to body.



Perhaps she is just a powerful spirit moving from body to body long before people understood magic. She could be every historical major female ever mentioned in-game. I am sticking with my gut. I think Andraste was just one incarnation of Flemeth.



EDIT: Heck, we never tried to burn Flemeth's bodies to use the ashes for healing... you never know... they might have worked too if given the chance. The power could be tied to her spiritual essence.

[trying_touch]

andraste was not a mage, though... and flemeth doesn't worship any maker... she's open to the idea, but she don't pray to no god...

[Zevais]

trying_touch wrote...

andraste was not a mage, though... and flemeth doesn't worship any maker... she's open to the idea, but she don't pray to no god...

There is much evidence pointing to the fact that she was a powerful mage. Ask Wynne about it someday; she liked to read about it.

Flemeth could have pretended to be the Maker Messiah to put her plans in motion. She may be purposely causing history to go in certain directions. She definitely knew the Warden would taken certain paths.

[Dileos]

Also, the Chantry is largely based upon the Christian/Catholic/Muslim religions, and Andraste herself is almost a mirror image of the warrior queen Boudica.



I doubt Bioware would cast a character with that many important ties in a bad light.

[Zevais]

Dileos wrote...

Also, the Chantry is largely based upon the Christian/Catholic/Muslim religions, and Andraste herself is almost a mirror image of the warrior queen Boudica.

I doubt Bioware would cast a character with that many important ties in a bad light.

I think you are underestimating certain idea making centers of their minds.

[Bahlgan]

EDIT: Heck, we never tried to burn Flemeth's bodies to use the ashes for healing... you never know... they might have worked too if given the chance. The power could be tied to her spiritual essence

That may be true, but I am willing to bet you that you will merely get a powerful stomach ache and some indigestion from consuming the forsaken ashes of such a batty mistress.

Flemeth could have pretended to be the Maker Messiah to put her plans in motion. She may be purposely causing history to go in certain directions. She definitely knew the Warden would taken certain paths.

Wouldn't that be a turn of events? lol

Not saying it isn't possible, but I don't think even Bioware thought up of such an advanced idea! And no, my Warden is unpredictable. Good-will makes predictability, but my Warden isn't everyone 

Modifié par Bahlgan, 07 août 2010 - 06:06 .

[Zevais]

I am going to sleep now; I will check back to see the comments in the morning. Happy speculating to you all.

[Bahlgan]

Zevais wrote...

I am going to sleep now; I will check back to see the comments in the morning. Happy speculating to you all.

Sleepy time! I will be sure to contact Flemeth and tell her of all the naughty things you called her, like the Maker. She will be sure to do something to you too. Can you say shrunken heads? Can you say two left feet? She can work her magic, she can! 

[Kimarous]

The big thing that bothers me is that Flemeth has instilled in Morrigan a strong value for power, especially magical power. According to Andrastean lore, this is very much NOT how Andraste would act. She is quoted as saying that "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him." That... isn't exactly something I would imagine Flemeth ever saying. Furthermore, I cannot really envision Flemeth as ever endorsing (or, in fact, introducing the concept of) the Maker, even if it was some Kamina-esque "Believe in the Maker, who believes in me, who believes in the Maker, who believes in me" circular logic that would enforce her position.

[Daerog]

trying_touch wrote...

andraste was not a mage, though... and flemeth doesn't worship any maker... she's open to the idea, but she don't pray to no god...

Andraste was a powerful mage, I'm siding with the Imperial Chantry on this.

[trying_touch]

wynne never says anything about her being a mage... i think there was a gift book that explored that possibility... but wynne never tells you she was...

yes, she could have been a mage... but most of ferelden believes she was not...

flemeth being andraste is not a bad speculation... but it's very far-fetched...

Modifié par trying_touch, 07 août 2010 - 07:01 .

[thenemesis77]

Zevais wrote...

trying_touch wrote...

andraste was not a mage, though... and flemeth doesn't worship any maker... she's open to the idea, but she don't pray to no god...

There is much evidence pointing to the fact that she was a powerful mage. Ask Wynne about it someday; she liked to read about it.

Flemeth could have pretended to be the Maker Messiah to put her plans in motion. She may be purposely causing history to go in certain directions. She definitely knew the Warden would taken certain paths.

When Morrigan brings you to meet Flemeth for the first time, she says to you  "are you........yes I think you are.....so much about you is uncertain" I think Flemeth could or can see what a person will become and I don't think she is evil, is she Andraste........well if you ever talk to her, she talks about how she hates the world in which men hold petty  politics  above all else when the world around them burns and how what men did to her, dictated everything that followed, she is droping hints of how she was betrayed and didn't Andrastes earth husband have her killed just as Flemeth's husband had her lover killed.....I see where the paths could line up but I just don't know.

Heres one to think on.....what if Morrigan is Andrate and the Maker's child........oh nos!

Modifié par thenemesis77, 07 août 2010 - 07:21 .

[Jigero]

Why the heck would Flemeth raise and army against people who openly loved magic and wanted to be used for everything from boiling water to picking your nose and then created a religious dogma that not only out lawed her self and caused her to be hunted for 100's of years because of this and the near extinction of anyone like her? Not only that Andraste had no powers other then talking to the Maker and singing really good.

If Flemeth was Andraste, She's incredibly stupid and does things that don't benefit her at all.

Modifié par Jigero, 07 août 2010 - 07:31 .

[Daerog]

trying_touch wrote...


flemeth being andraste is not a bad speculation... but it's very far-fetched...

Very far-fetched, indeed.

The speculation that Flemeth is an Old God makes more sense than her being Andraste. Unless her personality did a 180, I don't see Flemeth starting a war for liberation or conquest.

[brain_damage]

I just can't quite put my finger on it, but Flemeth really reminds me of Ravel Puzzleworth.

Shapeshifting, could be extremely old, ominousness, strange connection to the main character etc etc...

[Daerog]

Jigero wrote...

Why the heck would Flemeth raise and army against people who openly loved magic and wanted to be used for everything from boiling water to picking your nose and then created a religious dogma that not only out lawed her self and caused her to be hunted for 100's of years because of this and the near extinction of anyone like her? Not only that Andraste had no powers other then talking to the Maker and singing really good.

If Flemeth was Andraste, She's incredibly stupid and does things that don't benefit her at all.

A lot of that dogma was created by the Chantry who interpretted Andraste's teachings that way. The Imperial Chantry interpretted them differently and is more lenient on magic. Andraste did not write the Chant, it was made by the Chantry.
Andraste did not establish the Templars, Circles, or hunts for mages. She talked about faith, the Maker, freedom, against evil magic, and fought the Imperium. She did not start the Chantry.
However, I doubt Flemeth is Andraste anyway.

[Yalision]

Interesting idea. But I hope not anyway.

[captain.subtle]

Kimarous wrote...

This theory has a long of questions attached to it.

1) What about the Urn of Sacred Ashes? How do they factor into this theory?
2) What about the ash wraiths in the temple that speak of her so fondly? Flemeth doesn't exactly seem to fit those traits...
3) While Flemeth is clearly anti-Blight, when has she ever seemed pro-Maker? Heck, when has she ever seemed anti-Tevinter? She CLEARLY isn't anti-magic...

1) Ashes reqquire body not spirit.

2) Ash wraiths speak? When? Perhaps you mean spirit images.

3) That could have been opportunism?

Anyway... I believe  that she is NOT Andraste none the less. Flemeth has an origin story that is only 700 years old. Andraste was born before that.

Modifié par captain.subtle, 07 août 2010 - 08:19 .