180 réponses à ce sujet

[Marzillius]

Zevais wrote...

This is just speculation. I believe it is quite a possibility. Deception and high profile lover's quarrals and problems with governments seem to be a trend both share. Flemeth does give off the vibe that she likes to have things planned out, and people are often creatures of habit... perhaps so much to keep getting into similar situations... perhaps even on purpose. She may enjoy the grandeur; I definitely believe so from her attitude and strut.

I am making this topic with the expectation that it will probably get flamed or bashed. I am just curious to see actual responses.

Flemeth is not Andraste. No more explanation needed, this is a stupid speculation. End of thread.

[nisallik]

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

[_purifico_]

Well, I like your idea. Also, when the first art of DA2 was released (the one with the white-haired woman) one of the devs (Chris Priestly I believe) said that we all would be shocked when we find out who that is. It turned out that the woman was Flemeth which wasn't shocking at all, as that is what the majortity of forum dwellers suspected. So when I think back to that I think that maybe he meant that we would be shocked to find out who Flemeth really is...
Or whatever =)

Modifié par _purifico_, 07 août 2010 - 08:42 .

[Greenface21]

_purifico_ wrote...

Well, I like your idea. Also, when the first art of DA2 was released (the one with the white-haired woman) one of the devs (Chris Priestly I believe) said that we all would be shocked when we find out who that is. It turned out that the woman was Flemeth which wasn't shocking at all, as that is what the majortity of forum dwellers suspected. So when I think back to that I think that maybe he meant that we would be shocked to find out who Flemeth really is...
Or whatever =)

If i recall correctly the majority of the vocal posters here thought the whited haired woman was either OGB with accelerated aging or white haired Morrigan.

I like the idea of Flemeth being Andraste. If it were true It would put up a nice contrast between the fiction of what people believed and the reality of what happened to her after she was "burned to death".  Of course there isn't enough evidence to support or deny the connection but its fun to speculate.

If this fact was true it would make the Flemeth and Morrigan relationship rather ironic. Morrigan being the "atheist" but was in fact raised by the prophet herself.

[Jigero]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Jigero wrote...

Why the heck would Flemeth raise and army against people who openly loved magic and wanted to be used for everything from boiling water to picking your nose and then created a religious dogma that not only out lawed her self and caused her to be hunted for 100's of years because of this and the near extinction of anyone like her? Not only that Andraste had no powers other then talking to the Maker and singing really good.

If Flemeth was Andraste, She's incredibly stupid and does things that don't benefit her at all.

A lot of that dogma was created by the Chantry who interpretted Andraste's teachings that way. The Imperial Chantry interpretted them differently and is more lenient on magic. Andraste did not write the Chant, it was made by the Chantry.
Andraste did not establish the Templars, Circles, or hunts for mages. She talked about faith, the Maker, freedom, against evil magic, and fought the Imperium. She did not start the Chantry.
However, I doubt Flemeth is Andraste anyway.

Still doesn't make sense why she would go to war against them, seems counter to her own ideology.

[Daerog]

Greenface21 wrote...

Of course there isn't enough evidence to support or deny the connection but its fun to speculate.

I would consider Flemeth's personality and philosophy evidence to her not being Andraste. Andraste supported and was the symbol for the war on the Tevinter Imperium, I don't think that is speculated but historical fact in Thedas. According to legend and what we've seen in DA:O, Flemeth kills for survival, revenge, and personal power. Power for the sake of power, and there would be no real benefit (personally) with Flemeth waging war on the old Imperium.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Andraste may (or may not) have just been a powerful mage, but I don't think Andraste and Flemeth are the same person.

For one if Andraste was Morrigan's mother she wouldn't have been so fascinated with the 'old gods' that existed before the Andrastean cult, nor would Flemeth and Morrigan be seeking to undermine that cult by bringing back the old gods.

[Sabariel]

If Flemeth is Andraste then I'm the Queen of Antiva

[Bahlgan]

nisallik wrote...

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

Morrigan confirms that it is a very powerful demon which takes a union with Flemeth. It should be a pride demon.

[_purifico_]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Greenface21 wrote...

Of course there isn't enough evidence to support or deny the connection but its fun to speculate.

I would consider Flemeth's personality and philosophy evidence to her not being Andraste. Andraste supported and was the symbol for the war on the Tevinter Imperium, I don't think that is speculated but historical fact in Thedas. According to legend and what we've seen in DA:O, Flemeth kills for survival, revenge, and personal power. Power for the sake of power, and there would be no real benefit (personally) with Flemeth waging war on the old Imperium.

None that we know of, but we are pretty ignorant when comes to DA lore. So there. And if Flemeth is indeed a trickster god (at the same time taking the guise of mortal woman named Andraste) she might have done it "for teh lulz".

[Daerog]

Bahlgan wrote...

nisallik wrote...

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

Morrigan confirms that it is a very powerful demon which takes a union with Flemeth. It should be a pride demon.

Why must it be a pride demon? Maybe a more powerful demon that has no classification and hasn't become enthralled to one specific trait introduced by dreamers.

[Daerog]

_purifico_ wrote...

None that we know of, but we are pretty ignorant when comes to DA lore. So there. And if Flemeth is indeed a trickster god (at the same time taking the guise of mortal woman named Andraste) she might have done it "for teh lulz".

Such dramatic changes to personality and goals seems unlikely, even for a trickster god. Sounds more in the line of a god of randomness rather than trickery.

[captain.subtle]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

nisallik wrote...

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

Morrigan confirms that it is a very powerful demon which takes a union with Flemeth. It should be a pride demon.

Why must it be a pride demon? Maybe a more powerful demon that has no classification and hasn't become enthralled to one specific trait introduced by dreamers.

Words of Wisdom: Speculating on something we know exists is within the bounds of sanity. Speculating on what MIGHT exist is err.... <uncivil word insert>.

[iTomes]

captain.subtle wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

nisallik wrote...

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

Morrigan confirms that it is a very powerful demon which takes a union with Flemeth. It should be a pride demon.

Why must it be a pride demon? Maybe a more powerful demon that has no classification and hasn't become enthralled to one specific trait introduced by dreamers.

Words of Wisdom: Speculating on something we know exists is within the bounds of sanity. Speculating on what MIGHT exist is err.... .

uhhhhmmmm, but it cant be a pride demon either. demons have fixed shapes, they dont change that much. flemeth becomes a dragon and -when killed- remains a dragon (other then usual shapeshifters, who shapeshift back when they get taken out) so the dragonform is a demonic form. following to this, it cant be a pride demon because she does't become this uldred lookalike thing. besides, she doesn't show the typical symptoms for a pride demon possession: she doesn't try to overtake the whole world immidiatly, she doesn't think she cant lose a fight, shes carefull and so on. a pride demon would run around killing everyone, creating an army and play "unharmable"...

[captain.subtle]

iTomes wrote...
uhhhhmmmm, but it cant be a pride demon either. demons have fixed shapes, they dont change that much. flemeth becomes a dragon and -when killed- remains a dragon (other then usual shapeshifters, who shapeshift back when they get taken out) so the dragonform is a demonic form. following to this, it cant be a pride demon because she does't become this uldred lookalike thing. besides, she doesn't show the typical symptoms for a pride demon possession: she doesn't try to overtake the whole world immidiatly, she doesn't think she cant lose a fight, shes carefull and so on. a pride demon would run around killing everyone, creating an army and play "unharmable"...

Quote reasonable words, from what we know about The Baroness.... You are right, a pride demon inhabiting the Baroness wanted to rule the world.... Pride deomons per se might be acting on similarly grand motives... But let us NOT forget that they are also known to be extremely manipulative... I would go along with the Fen'Harel theory as the Elves claim (however wrong they are) that he went to a corner of the world after tricking other gods.

The corner may be Korcari Wilds (I don't really know if we can call it a corner though).

[Russalka]

Marzillius wrote...

Flemeth is not Andraste. No more explanation needed, this is a stupid speculation. End of thread.

People aren't allowed to speculate just because you think it is stupid?


Anyhow, Flemeth's idenitity will certainly be revealed at least by a fraction in DA2. We will just have to wait and see.
Personally I think she could be more than just some abomination.

Andraste is very vaguely connected to anything the Chantry now says, I believe. All the dogma and teachings, even her story can be just propaganda.
And with the sacred ashes, it all could be an illusion. If you bring Oghren along, he says there is a lot of lyrium surrounding them, as they step up to the urn.

[iTomes]

"Quote reasonable words, from what we know about The Baroness.... You are right, a pride demon inhabiting the Baroness wanted to rule the world.... Pride deomons per se might be acting on similarly grand motives... But let us NOT forget that they are also known to be extremely manipulative... I would go along with the Fen'Harel theory as the Elves claim (however wrong they are) that he went to a corner of the world after tricking other gods.



The corner may be Korcari Wilds (I don't really know if we can call it a corner though)."



the Fen'Harel theory sounds more reasonable to me, mainly because of the way of the "possession". appearantly those who are possessed keep parts of their personality (thats at least how it seems to me). besides, Fen'Harel prefers the "masquerade-game" he tricks, cheats and whatever else. a pride demon for example is rather the kind of "im goin to tell you aaaalll my evil brilliant plans because im going to kill you now and you wont be able to tell them someone else" kind of evil. flemeth on the other hand even seems to follow a purpose by being killed....

[Daerog]

captain.subtle wrote...

Words of Wisdom: Speculating on something we know exists is within the bounds of sanity. Speculating on what MIGHT exist is err.... .

That really kills imagination, and I'd rather be insane.

I get what you mean, and as far as has been mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any theories of there being other demons or spirits that haven't been categorized by the Circles. However, Flemeth doesn't seem to fit many of the demons listed. Pride? Perhaps, but she certainly doesn't seem to take herself too seriously as a person obsessed with pride would be. Which is why I speculate an unknown demon from the mysterious Fade. Unless she forced her own personality into the union, and in that case it could have been any kind of demon, as she just gets more powerful on her own and by possessing mages.

[CrookedAsylum]

Marzillius wrote...

Flemeth is not Andraste. No more explanation needed, this is a stupid speculation. End of thread.

Sorry, dude, but 'End of thread' only works if you're a moderator. As for Flemeth not being Andraste, I'll take your word on it when you become a writer for Dragon Age.

[Bahlgan]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Bahlgan wrote...

nisallik wrote...

I think Flemeth is more likely an Old God than Andraste, but then it wouldn't make sense why she would have to swap bodies if Morrigan is even telling the turth. Maybe a very powerful Pride demon... *shrug*

Morrigan confirms that it is a very powerful demon which takes a union with Flemeth. It should be a pride demon.

Why must it be a pride demon? Maybe a more powerful demon that has no classification and hasn't become enthralled to one specific trait introduced by dreamers.

Well even pride demons can range in magical prowess. A very powerful one controls Flemeth.

[AlexXIV]

Andraste has been betrayed more than once, first by her own husband and then by the Chantries who acted more in their own agenda than in actually picturing and revering Andraste in the way she really was, and finally (I guess) by the Maker Himself. Since, well, there is no Maker. Whatever happened to her after her death, not finding any Maker must have been little less than disappointing for her. Assuming she even really believed that the Maker was real to begin with.

Flemeth is a bitter old 'person' who feels like she has been cheated by the world (in her own words she says something about what the world has done to her). We neither know her age nor her true origin. So why is it stupid to speculate that she could have been Andraste? The only stupid thing about this speculation are the people declaring it to be stupid to speculate about it for their own lack of imagination, and whatever else.

I am not saying that it is so or that I think it is so, but it is possible. At least to our knowledge. If I learned anything about Flemeth then that everything is possible. She seems to be above and beyond mere abominations in both power and insight into what is going on in the world. So my guess is she is at least more than that. Not to forget she knows the ritual to seperate the soul of an Old God from an Archdemon. Maybe she did that before even.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 07 août 2010 - 11:57 .

[wickedwizzard01]

i am wondering .....
How did we get from Flemeth being possessed by a Powerful demon to Flemeth is friggin Andraste is beyond me
there's clearly no link/hint/tip/ or whatnot from Flemeth to Andraste at all

Morrigan has told you that Flemeth was possessed by a verry powerful Demon
and and since She didn'lie about anything (she prone to not telling you everything either)
my point is: so why would she lie about this???
and at what point in the story / lore did Andraste turn from being a goddess into a demon???

it is very obvious that Flemeth isn't Andraste

wether you want to see it or not is up to you
so believe what you will

but this is just my opinion ,

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 07 août 2010 - 12:00 .

[Daerog]

wickedwizzard01 wrote...
i am wondering .....
How did we get from Flemeth being possessed by a Powerful demon to Flemeth is friggin Andraste is beyond me
there's clearly no link/hint/tip/ or whatnot from Flemeth to Andraste at all

Morrigan has told you that Flemeth was possessed by a verry powerful Demon
and and since She didn'lie about anything (she prone to not telling you everything either)
my point is: so why would she lie about this???
and at what point in the story / lore did Andraste turn from being a goddess into a demon???

it is very obvious that Flemeth isn't Andraste

wether you want to see it or not is up to you
so believe what you will

but this is just my opinion ,

Andraste could have turned into a demon? The Baronness did. She was a human who became a demon. She could have gone from powerful mage, to wandering in the Fade, to becoming a demon.
Anyway, slow information flow ----> random speculation threads.

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 07 août 2010 - 12:06 .

[_purifico_]

I dunno, Flemeth never seemed particularly "bitter" to me. On the contrary - she seems like a queen of the world who has it all or at least has a plan how to have it all. Also, it seems that watching puny humans dragging out their miserable existence and their attempts to make a difference amuses her quite a lot.