26 réponses à ce sujet

[JeCy108]

am i the only one that finds morigan the sweetest girl around?  Sure she has clever wit, and no time to put up with morons..   But really who does?

I find myself constantly agreeing with her, and the things she says just shows how really soft she truely is.  While lil, may act all innocent and sweet,  to me, morgan is truely the sweet one..


Try grouping with her and sten, and toss in shale on top of it..  the only thing its missing..  is  YES,, more stupidiy...  why do i have to put up with these moronic citizems?  Why cant i agree more with you sten?   Mages are abominations !  (present company excluded of course, morgan)

why cant more men be like you sten..  You are better than the average man..  Qunari should feel no less..  being around these miserable excuses of beings, Humans and elves..  (present company excluded morgan) is so taxing on the spirit.. 


besides, whats not to love about a girl that can put a fearsome walking stone golem in his place with just a simple glance.. 

I think im in love...


So tell me,  Am i just totally looney?

Modifié par JeCy108, 07 août 2010 - 12:54 .

[nos_astra]

Morgan? You mean ... Morrigan?

[thegreateski]

Sweet? No.



Less ****y then she initially seems? Yes.

[LobselVith8]

JeCy108 wrote...



am i the only one that finds morrigan the sweetest girl around?  Sure she has clever wit, and no time to put up with morons..   But really who does?

I find myself constantly agreeing with her, and the things she says just shows how really soft she truely is.  While lil, may act all innocent and sweet,  to me, morgan is truely the sweet one..


Try grouping with her and sten, and toss in shale on top of it..  the only thing its missing..  is  YES,, more stupidiy...  why do i have to put up with these moronic citizems?  Why cant i agree more with you sten?   Mages are abominations !  (present company excluded of course, morrigan)

why cant more men be like you sten..  You are better than the average man..  Qunari should feel no less..  being around these miserable excuses of beings, Humans and elves..  (present company excluded morgan) is so taxing on the spirit.. 


besides, whats not to love about a girl that can put a fearsome walking stone golem in his place with just a simple glance.. 

I think im in love...


So tell me,  Am i just totally looney?

I like Morrigan, too. I'm surprised some people view her as evil, especially because of the dark ritual. Morrigan is trying to preserve the soul of an Old God, it has value to her to save something against genocide. Once the other two Blights happen, no more Old Gods. I don't see why she shouldn't try to save an Old God from extinction or why some people think it's evil because of Chantry propoganda.

Morrigan is a pragmatist, not a man-hating black hat villain. She's helping the Warden save Ferelden. She argues for results that enpower the Warden. Her opinions tend to walk that line based on Flemeth's teachings. There's also the issue that she's an apostate and Ferelden is full of mage-hating, ignorant people, so her perception will be colored by that.  Her dialogue with Wynne, especially about the Circle, are issues I agree with 100%.

[Cat Fancy]

JeCy108 wrote...

Morigan, Sweet and missunderstood?

Nah. Morrigan's the worst. She can be quite warm to the Warden, but that's only after you're super nice to her and do a bunch of **** for her. Everyone appreciates people doing **** for them! Morrigan is not unique in this respect, and the fact that she isn't a straight-up dicks at all times to all of your companions still doesn't really strike me as "sweet."  At no point does she ever stop being a random jackass when she can- you can't "soften" her and make those stupid/hilarious little "Morrigan disapproves (-5)'s" you get for not castrating orphans ever become less common. Her feelings for the Warden are quite genuine if you develop that relationship, either as a friend or a lover, but she still thinks it's just the best idea to, say, sacrifice a bunch of elves for a ****ing +1 to your constitution and all sorts of other things. No, she might not use her godchild for evil and she probably doesn't have plans to conquer the world or whatever, but she'd still be an absolutely awful parent and I really don't think she should have that kind of power. Why does the god's soul need to be preserved, anyway? Why would giving her that power be a good thing? Why would giving her a REGULAR child be a good thing? She's not completely evil,  but she sure as hell isn't good nor does she ever hide enough to be truly misunderstood. She lays all her faults out in the open.

When you complete her quest and justify your help on the grounds that you're her friend she says, "and that is what I do not understand." Me, too, Morrigan. Me too. You're just awful!

But still very funny.

edit: haha. This post looks so stupid with all those asterisks. 

edit the second: the editing:

LobselVith8 wrote...

 I'm surprised some people view her as evil, especially because of the dark ritual. Morrigan is trying to preserve the soul of an Old God, it has value to her to save something against genocide.

I find it hard to believe that Morrigan actually objects to genocide. She objects to passing up any opportunity for power. "Some things are worth preserving..." NICE TRY, Morr-Morr. Not buying it.

Modifié par umwhatyousay, 07 août 2010 - 01:32 .

[LobselVith8]

umwhatyousay wrote...

JeCy108 wrote...

Morrigan, Sweet and missunderstood?

Nah. Morrigan's an ****. She can be quite warm to the Warden, but that's only after you're super nice to her and do a bunch of **** for her. Everyone appreciates people doing **** for them! Morrigan is not unique in this respect, and the fact that she isn't a straight-up dicks at all times to all of your companions still doesn't really strike me as "sweet."  At no point does she ever stop being a random jackass when she can- you can't "soften" her and make those stupid/hilarious little "Morrigan disapproves (-5)'s" you get for not castrating orphans ever become less common. Her feelings for the Warden are quite genuine if you develop that relationship, either as a friend or a lover, but she still thinks it's just the best idea to, say, sacrifice a bunch of elves for a ****ing +1 to your constitution and all sorts of other things. No, she might not use her godchild for evil and she probably doesn't have plans to conquer the world or whatever, but she'd still be an absolutely awful parent and I really don't think she should have that kind of power. Why does the god's soul need to be preserved, anyway? Why would giving her that power be a good thing? Why would giving her a REGULAR child be a good thing? She's not completely evil,  but she sure as hell isn't good nor does she ever hide enough to be truly misunderstood. She lays all her faults out in the open.

When you complete her quest and justify your help on the grounds that you're her friend she says, "and that is what I do not understand." Me, too, Morrigan. Me too. You're just awful!

But still very funny.

Morrigan is pragmatic. Do you think she's callous for telling the Warden to make decisions that would make him or her stronger and ignoring events that don't focus on stopping the Blight? Morrigan thinks the Warden should focus on the treaties to save Ferelden from the darkspawn horde, instead of every minor distraction like getting the elf kid laid. She always argues for actions that would enpower the Warden, considering the Warden's foe is the Archdemon. Blights tend to last decades, after all, and the Anderfels is a barren wasteland because of the prior Blights.

Regarding the ritual, Morrigan is upfront when she says the ritual is important to her. Preserving one of the last mysteries of Ferelden against certain death is important to her. The same way Alistair leaves your party if you spare Loghain, you're doing something that neither can abide by. If you're in a romance with Morrigan, this ritual will save you from death. If you're a dear friend, it does the same. And you're inferring her quest enpowers her, but the truth is we see no change in her power. Her pragmatic arguments tend to focus on enpowering you - after all, she never asks the blood ritual to enpower her, after all.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 07 août 2010 - 01:38 .

[Cat Fancy]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Morrigan is pragmatic. Do you think she's callous for telling the Warden to make decisions that would make him or her stronger and ignoring events that don't focus on stopping the Blight? Morrigan thinks the Warden should focus on the treaties to save Ferelden from the darkspawn horde, instead of every minor distraction like getting the elf kid laid. She always argues for actions that would enpower the Warden, considering the Warden's foe is the Archdemon. Blights tend to last decades, after all, and the Anderfels is a barren wasteland because of the prior Blights.

Regarding the ritual, Morrigan is upfront when she says the ritual is important to her. Preserving one of the last mysteries of Ferelden against certain death is important to her. The same way Alistair leaves your party if you spare Loghain, you're doing something that neither can abide by. If you're in a romance with Morrigan, this ritual will save you from death. If you're a dear friend, it does the same. And you're inferring her quest enpowers her, but the truth is we see no change in her power. Her pragmatic arguments tend to focus on enpowering you - after all, she never asks the blood ritual to enpower her, after all.

She gets a godchild! That seems... pretty empowering, to be honest. And she doesn't want you to have anything to do with it, if you're the father. Why? Is that something she's really kindly doing just for you? And she offers this no matter how she feels about you. And she'd be an awful parent, really.

She's the worst kind of "pragmatic," too. I think it's funny when she laughs after you "accept" Bevin's sword as a gift and when she makes fun of those Dalish lovers. I think it's less funny when she, say, is just fine with sacrificing a bunch of slave lives to get a very minor benefit or when she randomly decides that slaughtering the Dalish would be a really good idea. Real pragmatic people understand it's awfully pragmatic to get people to not, say, hate and distrust you with good reason. Morrigan doesn't. She's not always wrong and she has some good points, sometimes, but she also likes committing random acts of pointless jackassery. And at any rate, I still think it would be hard to consider her "sweet."

[LobselVith8]

umwhatyousay wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Morrigan is pragmatic. Do you think she's callous for telling the Warden to make decisions that would make him or her stronger and ignoring events that don't focus on stopping the Blight? Morrigan thinks the Warden should focus on the treaties to save Ferelden from the darkspawn horde, instead of every minor distraction like getting the elf kid laid. She always argues for actions that would enpower the Warden, considering the Warden's foe is the Archdemon. Blights tend to last decades, after all, and the Anderfels is a barren wasteland because of the prior Blights.

Regarding the ritual, Morrigan is upfront when she says the ritual is important to her. Preserving one of the last mysteries of Ferelden against certain death is important to her. The same way Alistair leaves your party if you spare Loghain, you're doing something that neither can abide by. If you're in a romance with Morrigan, this ritual will save you from death. If you're a dear friend, it does the same. And you're inferring her quest enpowers her, but the truth is we see no change in her power. Her pragmatic arguments tend to focus on enpowering you - after all, she never asks the blood ritual to enpower her, after all.

She gets a godchild! That seems... pretty empowering, to be honest. And she doesn't want you to have anything to do with it, if you're the father. Why? Is that something she's really kindly doing just for you? And she offers this no matter how she feels about you. And she'd be an awful parent, really.

She's the worst kind of "pragmatic," too. I think it's funny when she laughs after you "accept" Bevin's sword as a gift and when she makes fun of those Dalish lovers. I think it's less funny when she, say, is just fine with sacrificing a bunch of slave lives to get a very minor benefit or when she randomly decides that slaughtering the Dalish would be a really good idea. Real pragmatic people understand it's awfully pragmatic to get people to not, say, hate and distrust you with good reason. Morrigan doesn't. She's not always wrong and she has some good points, sometimes, but she also likes committing random acts of pointless jackassery. And at any rate, I still think it would be hard to consider her "sweet."

I think sweet would be the wrong word, too, but a godchild? Why does everyone assume the child is going to be powerful or that Morrigan is going to do something evil with the baby? Morrigan is trying to preserve the soul of an Old God, it has value to her to save something against genocide. Once the other two Blights happen, no more Old Gods. I don't see why she shouldn't try to save an Old God from extinction. The theory that she will use the soul of the Old God to enpower her has no basis in the storyline at all. Morrigan flat out tells you she wants to preserve the soul of the Old God, and Flemeth's ritual to body snatch is unique to her because she is a unique abomination. Morrigan's disgust alone with Flemeth's plan illustrates that she isn't going to do this, and her own pragmatist views and her desire to be left alone gives good reason to show that she won't bring about the end of the world. She wants to save the life of the Warden. Supporting this is a strip from David Gaider with art by Aimo: The Revelation that covers some ideas that were cut for time, basically that she assumed the Orlesian Wardens would have arrived and that she wouldn't even have to contemplate doing the ritual to save the life of the Warden.

Also, take into consideration that they are in Ferelden. Considering that she's still an apostate and the country is full of mage-hating, ignorant people, why wouldn't she leave to a place she would be safe? Morrian is an apostate, raised by Flemeth to believe in survival of the fittest, and this is a typical elf-free, Chantry-loving, apostate-hating country that isn't safe for her.

[DOYOURLABS]

I wouldn't call her sweet but she is definitely not the "drowns kittens for fun" person I thought she would be.

[Giggles_Manically]

About the only sane argument for the DR is that there are only three wardens in the battle tommorow, where it took hundreds of wardens in battle to get archdemons before.

Then again I find it disgusting that Morrigan hides the DR from you for a year, even as a friend or a lover just to have a better chance at it. Im sorry but something that involves someones soul getting destroyed is a big deal, and if another perons hides that just for their own ends, then politiely I dont like them for that.



Gaider can go on and on about Morrigan truly loving the warden (she does) or how she has found a friend in the warden, but if she refuses to trust me, than I wont trust her plain as that.

[Cat Fancy]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think sweet would be the wrong word, too, but a godchild? Why does everyone assume the child is going to be powerful or that Morrigan is going to do something evil with the baby? Morrigan is trying to preserve the soul of an Old God, it has value to her to save something against genocide. Once the other two Blights happen, no more Old Gods. I don't see why she shouldn't try to save an Old God from extinction. The theory that she will use the soul of the Old God to enpower her has no basis in the storyline at all. Morrigan flat out tells you she wants to preserve the soul of the Old God, and Flemeth's ritual to body snatch is unique to her because she is a unique abomination. Morrigan's disgust alone with Flemeth's plan illustrates that she isn't going to do this, and her own pragmatist views and her desire to be left alone gives good reason to show that she won't bring about the end of the world. She wants to save the life of the Warden. Supporting this is a strip from David Gaider with art by Aimo: The Revelation that covers some ideas that were cut for time, basically that she assumed the Orlesian Wardens would have arrived and that she wouldn't even have to contemplate doing the ritual to save the life of the Warden.

Also, take into consideration that they are in Ferelden. Considering that she's still an apostate and the country is full of mage-hating, ignorant people, why wouldn't she leave to a place she would be safe? Morrian is an apostate, raised by Flemeth to believe in survival of the fittest, and this is a typical elf-free, Chantry-loving, apostate-hating country that isn't safe for her.

I agree that Morrigan's actions make perfect sense considering her personal history and the cultural context and I said that I don't think she's trying to take over the world or whatever, and I know she wouldn't be able to perform the ritual with the child. But looking at the kinds of things she's perfectly happy and willing to do, I would never try to help her have a child, especially one that had the "soul" of a god, whatever that means. I don't understand why that, of all things, needs to preserved and why Morrigan, of all people, needs to be the one to preserve it.

I think it's unfortunate that they cut that content (I understand, though: we definitely needed the entirety of Orzammar), but it still isn't part of the game and even if it were: she's still willing to do so many absolutely horrible things, often seemingly for ****s and giggles. I don't think she's without multiple dimensions and I feel sorry for her, but... that only counts for so much. Also, "elf-free"? Morrigan is certainly more than willing to make Ferelden a little more elf-free several times over the course of the game. I'm not saying she's an elf-hater, but I certainly wouldn't say she cares about them.

[Giggles_Manically]

She actually repects the Dalish.

[Cat Fancy]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She actually repects the Dalish.

That doesn't surprise me, but she still doesn't really care, and is actually impressed, if the Warden seemingly randomly decides to just help the werewolves slaughter the Dalish (and that's not even what they're asking for! Warden, you are the weirdest person I know.). Which is to say, she doesn't really care about elves so I don't understand why elves were brought to support her crazy-ass worldview.

Modifié par umwhatyousay, 07 août 2010 - 02:30 .

[LobselVith8]

umwhatyousay wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think sweet would be the wrong word, too, but a godchild? Why does everyone assume the child is going to be powerful or that Morrigan is going to do something evil with the baby? Morrigan is trying to preserve the soul of an Old God, it has value to her to save something against genocide. Once the other two Blights happen, no more Old Gods. I don't see why she shouldn't try to save an Old God from extinction. The theory that she will use the soul of the Old God to enpower her has no basis in the storyline at all. Morrigan flat out tells you she wants to preserve the soul of the Old God, and Flemeth's ritual to body snatch is unique to her because she is a unique abomination. Morrigan's disgust alone with Flemeth's plan illustrates that she isn't going to do this, and her own pragmatist views and her desire to be left alone gives good reason to show that she won't bring about the end of the world. She wants to save the life of the Warden. Supporting this is a strip from David Gaider with art by Aimo: The Revelation that covers some ideas that were cut for time, basically that she assumed the Orlesian Wardens would have arrived and that she wouldn't even have to contemplate doing the ritual to save the life of the Warden.

Also, take into consideration that they are in Ferelden. Considering that she's still an apostate and the country is full of mage-hating, ignorant people, why wouldn't she leave to a place she would be safe? Morrian is an apostate, raised by Flemeth to believe in survival of the fittest, and this is a typical elf-free, Chantry-loving, apostate-hating country that isn't safe for her.

I agree that Morrigan's actions make perfect sense considering her personal history and the cultural context and I said that I don't think she's trying to take over the world or whatever, and I know she wouldn't be able to perform the ritual with the child. But looking at the kinds of things she's perfectly happy and willing to do, I would never try to help her have a child, especially one that had the "soul" of a god, whatever that means. I don't understand why that, of all things, needs to preserved and why Morrigan, of all people, needs to be the one to preserve it.

I think it's unfortunate that they cut that content (I understand, though: we definitely needed the entirety of Orzammar), but it still isn't part of the game and even if it were: she's still willing to do so many absolutely horrible things, often seemingly for ****s and giggles. I don't think she's without multiple dimensions and I feel sorry for her, but... that only counts for so much.

Morrigan was raised by Flemeth, it's obviously shaped how she views the world. Regarding her suggestions, she advocates using the blood ritual or preserving the anvil, but it's ultimately up to the Warden. She will stay at your side regardless of whether you chose these options or not. As for the baby, I think it's an issue of trust. If you trust Morrigan, and my Warden does, then you do the DR.

As for why she would preserve it, consider that a learned and talented student of the arcane arts (like the Mage Warden) has never even heard of magic like Morrigan's. The Chantry basically paves over and destroys anything it sees fit to (as the Dalish can attest to), including the arcane knowledge of magic that doesn't fit their narrow view of the right kind of magic. Preserving the soul of an Old God is the only way to save it from inevitable destruction after the next two Blights transpire. Considering that Flemeth can become a High Dragon, perhaps the Old Gods have great meaning to her, and perhaps she's simply looking to preserve something that's been villified by the Chantry like she has.

umwhatyousay wrote...

Also, "elf-free"? Morrigan is certainly more than willing to make Ferelden a little more elf-free several times over the course of the game. I'm not saying she's an elf-hater, but I certainly wouldn't say she cares about them.

I meant it more in terms of how Ferelden isn't tolerant of people with differences.

[Giggles_Manically]

umwhatyousay wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She actually repects the Dalish.

That doesn't surprise me, but she still doesn't really care, and is actually impressed, if the Warden seemingly randomly decides to just help the werewolves slaughter the Dalish (and that's not even what they're asking for! Warden, you are the weirdest person I know.). Which is to say, she doesn't really care about elves so I don't understand why elves were brought to support her crazy-ass worldview.

She also:
Wants to abandon Redclliffe
Perserve the Anvil of the Void

She equally dosent like all others unless the warden gets past her barriers. Morrigan dosent befriend others easily, the warden is the first actual lover or friend she ever made. She does not hate any other specific group per say, she likes her own survival and will kill a lot of people to ensure she gets it.

[Herr Uhl]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She actually repects the Dalish.

She ought to have met them a few times during her time growing up. At least judging from that the Dalish bring Maric and Loghain to asha 'belannar.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 07 août 2010 - 02:39 .

[Cat Fancy]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

umwhatyousay wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She actually repects the Dalish.

That doesn't surprise me, but she still doesn't really care, and is actually impressed, if the Warden seemingly randomly decides to just help the werewolves slaughter the Dalish (and that's not even what they're asking for! Warden, you are the weirdest person I know.). Which is to say, she doesn't really care about elves so I don't understand why elves were brought to support her crazy-ass worldview.

She also:
Wants to abandon Redclliffe
Perserve the Anvil of the Void

She equally dosent like all others unless the warden gets past her barriers. Morrigan dosent befriend others easily, the warden is the first actual lover or friend she ever made. She does not hate any other specific group per say, she likes her own survival and will kill a lot of people to ensure she gets it.

I agree? I think I've said as much? She doesn't care about other people and she's willing to do horrible things to them if it suits her. Not sweet! I mentioned elves because someone else mentioned Ferelden's elf-hating as another reason for Morrigan to be the way she is. I like Morrigan. She's hilarious. I just don't think she's a good person.

[FiliusMartis]

Sweet is the wrong word, indeed. Morrigan's entire reason for accompanying the warden is to perform the dark ritual. This is not Morrigan's idea-- it was Flemeth's, something worth noting. A god, by it's very nature, is something powerful. It is not her desire for it that troubles me so much as her refusal to tell you exactly what she intends or to let the father of the child see it. If she wishes to teach it to 'respect where it came from' then it needs to understand the nature of the taint, the sacrifice ultimately demanded of its father. The child, the soul of one old god, is spared. Its brothers are not. Its father is not. The reality of the taint is something Morrigan cannot fully grasp; if the father is a warden whom she loves, there is no reason to deny him seeing his child on occasion.



That being said, the dark ritual is not where I developed my opinion of her. I find her rather short sighted in this pragmatism of hers. Pragmatism has its limits-- sometimes the path of least resistance or instant gratification is not the best. For instance, agreeing to save Redcliffe is a way of building necessary support, and agreeing to save Velenna not only better equips the militia but opens a smithy up for the warden's own use.



I am of the opinion that a measure of trust is required for love. Morrigan is far from trusting and honest.

[wickedwizzard01]

 i will be short about this:

 :wub:Morrigan:wub:
  

i doubt that many will agree with the OP but i do think she's both
misunderstood and sweet

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 07 août 2010 - 02:53 .

[maxernst]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

umwhatyousay wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

She actually repects the Dalish.

That doesn't surprise me, but she still doesn't really care, and is actually impressed, if the Warden seemingly randomly decides to just help the werewolves slaughter the Dalish (and that's not even what they're asking for! Warden, you are the weirdest person I know.). Which is to say, she doesn't really care about elves so I don't understand why elves were brought to support her crazy-ass worldview.

She also:
Wants to abandon Redclliffe
Perserve the Anvil of the Void

She equally dosent like all others unless the warden gets past her barriers. Morrigan dosent befriend others easily, the warden is the first actual lover or friend she ever made. She does not hate any other specific group per say, she likes her own survival and will kill a lot of people to ensure she gets it.

Preserving the Anvil of the Void is arguably a good decision, if not particularly nice, but I think abandoning Redcliffe is foolish and shortsighted. You're trying to get Eammon's help, so helping his brother is a very good idea, especially since Teagan may actually be Arl...we don't know what's happened in the castle.  Plus,Redcliffe is his source of income, if you let it be destroyed, you reduce his ability to support an army in the field. 

As far as risks taken and their connection to the Blight, defending Redcliffe makes a lot more sense than, say, killing Flemeth.  It's about on a par with rescuing Anora--it's a risk taken on spec because it helps someone who might help you.

Morrigan is certainly not sweet.  Is she "evil"?  Not if evil means doing nasty things just to be cruel and sadistic, but the reality is that she's been raised in isolation and has never formed bonds with other people.  I think the problem in Redcliffe is that the game is assuming you go there first and Morrigan's experience in dealing with people is so limited at that point, that she doesn't really have a good grasp of the give and take of human relationships.  When I promise I'll look for Velanna, my thought is 1.  I've already decided to help Redcliffe and anything that helps Redcliffe helps me; and 2. I know I'm going to the castle anyway, so why not say I'm going to look for Velanna?  Even if it's not true, it would be very shortsighted to refuse him.

The DR?  It's a great unknown and a gambler's choice.  We really don't know enough about the Old Gods to say whether bringing one into the world is really a dreadful thing, unless you trust the Chantry.   If you trust Morrigan, it makes sense.  If you don't, it might still make sense if you're selfish or if you're willing to gamble that an old god under Morrigan's influence is a fair trade-off for the life of a hugely skilled and experienced Warden or if it really allows anyone to kill the Archdemon.

[LobselVith8]

maxernst wrote...

Preserving the Anvil of the Void is arguably a good decision, if not particularly nice, but I think abandoning Redcliffe is foolish and shortsighted. You're trying to get Eammon's help, so helping his brother is a very good idea, especially since Teagan may actually be Arl...we don't know what's happened in the castle.  Plus,Redcliffe is his source of income, if you let it be destroyed, you reduce his ability to support an army in the field. 

As far as risks taken and their connection to the Blight, defending Redcliffe makes a lot more sense than, say, killing Flemeth.  It's about on a par with rescuing Anora--it's a risk taken on spec because it helps someone who might help you.

Morrigan is certainly not sweet.  Is she "evil"?  Not if evil means doing nasty things just to be cruel and sadistic, but the reality is that she's been raised in isolation and has never formed bonds with other people.  I think the problem in Redcliffe is that the game is assuming you go there first and Morrigan's experience in dealing with people is so limited at that point, that she doesn't really have a good grasp of the give and take of human relationships.  When I promise I'll look for Velanna, my thought is 1.  I've already decided to help Redcliffe and anything that helps Redcliffe helps me; and 2. I know I'm going to the castle anyway, so why not say I'm going to look for Velanna?  Even if it's not true, it would be very shortsighted to refuse him.

Is defending Redcliffe necessary, though? Eamon is important, but Redcliffe has nothing to do with Eamon's ability to help call the Landsmeet. Save it or allow the villagers to defend themselves, Eamon calls it either way. Morrigan makes the case that the Warden should focus on the imminent threat of the Blight and not on aiding the people of a single village. It's the same attitude she takes when you resolve the food dispute in Loithering. Considering these are the kind of people who typically shun Morrigan and mages like her, I don't see why anyone is surprised she has no empathy towards them. No one in this story is completely good or evil, they are all flawed. You can't become King or Queen unless you're a Human Noble, the people often criticize the idea that an elf is even a Grey Warden despite the fact that an elf stopped the last Blight, and the Denerim alienage was purged[/i] with no one giving a damn. This is a society that keeps elves in a confined space, preaches how mages are evil and has some backward attitudes towards women. Murdock himself mentions his surprise if the Warden is a woman and his added concern if the Warden is also a mage. And everyone in Redcliffe is human because the homes of elves who manage to get out of the alienage and don't know their place are burned down. Should Morrigan suddenly have sympathy because these villagers, who likely would kill her without hesitation if they knew she was an apostate and weren't in fear of their lives,  who suddenly need the help of someone they would otherwise kill? Playing as an elven mage, plenty of people make note of the race and their distrust of magic. Morrigan probably thinks that the concern to stop the Blight carries a little more weight than one single village. Again, she's pragmatic.

[maxernst]

LobselVith8 wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Is defending Redcliffe necessary, though? Eamon is important, but Redcliffe has nothing to do with Eamon's ability to help call the Landsmeet. Save it or allow the villagers to defend themselves, Eamon calls it either way. .

That's metagaming.  You don't know if Eamon's even alive.  And Redcliffe's survival should impact the Landsmeet, because quite frankly, without Redcliffe, what is Eammon?  A guy with a meaningless title.  A lord's strength lies in the value of his land, and if he has no finacial or military strength, his politcal strength is also compromised.  He's little better off than Fergus without Redcliffe.

If you're going to metagame, NONE of the decisions you make has any impact on the Blight.  Save Loghain or Kill him, pick Caridin or Branka, you can win the game regardless. 

Morrigan's decision is pragmatic in a vacuum, much like her advice in Lothering that you seek out Loghain and kill him.  It's totally naive and impractical (and the game won't even allow you to try it).  Actually, she's a lot like Sten.  Her grasp of how Ferelden works is frail.  That doesn't make her evil, but it does mean that her advice is of questionable value at times.

Modifié par maxernst, 07 août 2010 - 05:02 .