1227 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

JasonPogo wrote...

Wait then his comments make no sense whatsoever!  Why didn't you put top down view on the PC.  "The game sold well on console so we are going with the audience.  YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE PC VERSHION WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE ON CONSOLE WANT!!!  Ahhh I hope there is something in the translation that is getting lost.  Again not taking a shot at you Purple Lady just venting...

My take on it is that Laidlaw is basically saying "The console versions of Origins sold more, hence we're not putting as much time, effort and money into the PC version of DA2 since it won't sell as much as the console versions. Porting the console version to the PC is good enough." 

Maybe thats totally unfair of me to put words in his mouth, but all the information released on DA2 thus far leads me to think the PC version won't be anything other than glorified console port, just like ME2 for the PC.

[FedericoV]

I do not care a lot about the toolset. I do not use mods and I understand that it appeals only a minority of gamers (passionate and creative, but still a minority). But the isometric view is a big change... and I mean BIG. Maybe it turns out that the game will be better with those changes... I don't know. But without isometric view it's definetely another game. So, I think that the devs should only be honest and clear the issue. They should not say: "The Pc game will remain the same", because the removal of top-down view clearly changes the gameplay dramatically.

Btw, that's a reward for all the people who were complaining about DLCs and that do not want online validation of DA:O because it would hurt their privacy.... Piracy it's an issue. A big issue. And the result is that they develop game for consolles and only port them to PC.

Modifié par FedericoV, 07 août 2010 - 09:22 .

[TheMadCat]

JasonPogo wrote...

Purple Lady wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

"For budgetary reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very detailed and nice textures so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view. With an aerial view [isometric] we should cover much more ground and so create other textures. Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience"

That is the translation that the OP posted. However at no time dose it say he is talking about all versions of the game. All press info has been the 360 build (correct me if I am wrong) so Mike could easily have been just talking about what he was showing to the interviewer.

I edited the first post with the question of the journalist. They are talking of PC version. Sorry.

I didn't include this translation first because I don't know how much I'm allowed to translate and quote without infringing copyrights and intellectual property.

Wait then his comments make no sense whatsoever!  Why didn't you put top down view on the PC.  "The game sold well on console so we are going with the audience.  YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE PC VERSHION WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE ON CONSOLE WANT!!!  Ahhh I hope there is something in the translation that is getting lost.  Again not taking a shot at you Purple Lady just venting...

I have a feeling if there was someone from BioWare would have been quick to jump in here and elaborate as they have in other threads which posted poorly written or confusing articles (Remember the 3 dialouge option threads and how quick people from BioWare were on it to clarify.)

[Amyntas]

I completely understand Bioware's and EA's need to make as much money as possible, but I still believe that the market for 30-something old-school RPG fans is big enough to warrant a deep, complex sequel. When catering to the console crowd they are entering a saturated market imo. Oh well...

[Bryy_Miller]

TheMadCat wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Purple Lady wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

"For budgetary reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very detailed and nice textures so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view. With an aerial view [isometric] we should cover much more ground and so create other textures. Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience"

That is the translation that the OP posted. However at no time dose it say he is talking about all versions of the game. All press info has been the 360 build (correct me if I am wrong) so Mike could easily have been just talking about what he was showing to the interviewer.

I edited the first post with the question of the journalist. They are talking of PC version. Sorry.

I didn't include this translation first because I don't know how much I'm allowed to translate and quote without infringing copyrights and intellectual property.

I really think we all need to stop trying to get info from foreign sources.

Brockololly wrote...

Maybe thats totally unfair of me to put words in his mouth, but all the information released on DA2 thus far leads me to think the PC version won't be anything other than glorified console port, just like ME2 for the PC.

In all fairness, ME2 ran better than ME1 did.



Wait then his comments make no sense whatsoever!  Why didn't you put top down view on the PC.  "The game sold well on console so we are going with the audience.  YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE PC VERSHION WHO CARES WHAT PEOPLE ON CONSOLE WANT!!!  Ahhh I hope there is something in the translation that is getting lost.  Again not taking a shot at you Purple Lady just venting...

I have a feeling if there was someone from BioWare would have been quick to jump in here and elaborate as they have in other threads which posted poorly written or confusing articles (Remember the 3 dialouge option threads and how quick people from BioWare were on it to clarify.)

[Bryy_Miller]

deleted

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 07 août 2010 - 09:23 .

[Kenrae]

 No isometric view? Must. Control. Rage.
I better not write anything else, I don't want to be banned:pinched:

[FedericoV]

Amyntas wrote...

I completely understand Bioware's and EA's need to make as much money as possible, but I still believe that the market for 30-something old-school RPG fans is big enough to warrant a deep, complex sequel. When catering to the console crowd they are entering a saturated market imo. Oh well...

They are allready big in the consolle market... so I do not see the issue. Because of piracy, the PC market is a niche that could only interest to company like CD-Red Project (untile they became big).

Modifié par FedericoV, 07 août 2010 - 09:25 .

[WilliamShatner]

Brockololly wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

Hm, conflicting words from this thread though:

The Elite Elite wrote...

All it really said was that the PC version will have the same ability to "examine the battlefield closely, make decisions from a top-down view, and direct your party like a general." They say they got to play the Xbox 360 version and they can "confirm that it is faster, more responsive, and more fluid than before. As soon as you press a button, something happens. As a warrior, Hawke threw down special strikes and used a new dash move to slash through darkspawn with ease. It isn't on the Dynasty Warriors side of the spectrum, but with obvious improvements to the targeting system and animations, playing Dragon Age II with a controller finally feels natural."

hmm beleive Mike Laidlaw (as we know hes lead dev) or some board troll Elite Elite.

LOL, how about you post a link to a actual BIOWARE EMPLOYEE saying ML is wrong.
Other wise its just more spin from the Bioware is perfect forum trolls

The quote from Elite Elite is from way back before the Game Informer article was widespread. What he said is true based on the GI article.

The GI article specifically states that:

The PC version implements the same strategic approach afforded by a a mouse-and-keyboard control scheme. You can examine the battlefield closely, make decisions from a top-down view, and direct your party like a general.

But its telling that no magazine to my knowledge has seen the PC version in action, just the console versions. Maybe the French mag has more up to date information? EIther one magazine is straight up wrong, or the info is new. Or BioWare didn't do a good job fact checking the articles before publication. Personally, seeing as the French mag has quotes directly from Laidlaw, I'll buy that versus the GI article, which is just written from the writer's POV.

But this is rubbish news in any event....I don't see how removing features is supposed to make for a better game.

It's not removing features, it's streamlining.

Streamlining the game improves the story and delivering an emotional engaging narrative with intense, visceral combat. 

[Yalision]

I just don't understand the logic behind trying to alleviate PC gamers stress when, if this article is correct, they have made a sweeping change to the game-play. Perspective is everything in a game, its how you experience the world. To change that is to change the way most every PC gamer enjoyed their quests. To take that away and force upon us the 3rd person view just makes it feel like a cop-out in the direction of big brother Mass Effect.



WHY?! I was perfectly happy with every single change except this, and Bioware seems to have its tail between its legs and hasn't come out to say anything in this thread. Why must everything wait for the trailer? Why can't they address their hardcore fan-base that frequents these forums on such a pressing issue? Especially unless it can't be changed, why not just let us know and talk now.



This is just... It turns it into a another game. I have a 360 and a PS3, but I bought Dragon Age for PC because it was the best version to get and I specifically did NOT want to play this game 3rd person. Heh, ironically most reviews scored the console version lower in part for its awkward 3rd person perspective.

[Marionetten]

BioWare needs to show the PC version off properly before this gets out of hand. The lack of support for their PC fanbase is below all critique.

[Senzen Sumnor]

Amyntas wrote...

I completely understand Bioware's and EA's need to make as much money as possible, but I still believe that the market for 30-something old-school RPG fans is big enough to warrant a deep, complex sequel. When catering to the console crowd they are entering a saturated market imo. Oh well...

I think 80% of DAO sales were on consoles though so I can't really blame them for the decisions they've made.  In fact, we should probably feel lucky we are getting the game at all.

Modifié par Senzen Sumnor, 07 août 2010 - 09:29 .

[DragonRageGT]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

I rarely used the aerial view so that's not a problem for me. It works best in cramped indoor locations which is kinda cheating anyway, because it allows you to see places that you shouldn't.

As for mods, I mainly use them to get rid of annoyances - like sustained spell/talent effects. That stuff drives me crazy.

Leliana's SA face mod is another (which also requires more_hairstyles). I hate messing with a character's look but in this case it is warranted.

There is a fog-of-war, so to speak, even with aerial view. One cannot see inside of a room that you don't have a direct line of sight with it. And playing in NM for zero injuries in any run makes it very useful. Casual gamers can dismiss it but don'rt say it isn't needed. I wished I could see how many injuries your chars have but you have no char uploaded... heh

[TheMadCat]

TheMadCat wrote...

I have a feeling if there was someone from BioWare would have been quick to jump in here and elaborate as they have in other threads which posted poorly written or confusing articles (Remember the 3 dialouge option threads and how quick people from BioWare were on it to clarify.)

Bah, nevermind this post looked at the wrong start date (Saw 2 days). Something could have been lost in translation and with it being a Saturday BioWare probably isn't lurking. We'll see though.

And Miller, you post structure up there is confusing, no clue who you're quoting and what you're going for.

[DragonRageGT]

Zjarcal wrote...

Purple Lady wrote...


True, toolsets are an exception in the video game landscape. But DAO 2 inherits a community that has been spoiled by toolsets. And there are many modders behind DAO 1.

And that's the keyword, we have been spoiled...

You really should see the amazing mods done for Gothic 1,2,3, Risen, the Witcher, Oblivion, Morrowind... and I can only imagine (with pain just for the thought) what piece of whatever would be NWN without the toolset and the online servers with amazing worlds/stories. The OC was really just a demo of the toolset capabilities then.

And if you think PC market is broken, well, it may indeed be, for broken (bugged)  games, broken spirited companies, etc. I bet that it is not broken for Blizzard, CD Projekt/Atari, JoWooD/Spellbound, Piranha Bytes/Deep Silver, to mention just a few of them. I'd rather BioWare would not even bother to release a console game for the PC in such conditions.

Oh, and I recently noticed that the 900MB community patch made for Gothic 3, after Publisher and Dev broke out and the devs were forbidden to patch the game, was made with contribution by CD Projekt and Spellbound people, along with some of the original devs people "incognito".

And if they think the PC market doesn't deserve their consideration anymore, perhaps because of file sharing, I'll gladly post a number of images of which pirated console disks will be for sale in the streets. Because it will be there. They are all there. All of the console exclusive games are there and sell more than the real thing. Since I don't have a console and will not have one anytime soon (My PC rocks and there are and there will always be awesome games made for it, not merely adapted from a console piece-of-fill-the-blank!)

The strategic view, while some people claim not to use it att all, is a very important tool specially in higher difficulty, to let us evaluate a battlefield. And it's is at 1 mouse wheel click so it's very fast and practical to use it and back to close combat.

[JasonPogo]

RageGT wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Purple Lady wrote...


True, toolsets are an exception in the video game landscape. But DAO 2 inherits a community that has been spoiled by toolsets. And there are many modders behind DAO 1.

And that's the keyword, we have been spoiled...

You really should see the amazing mods done for Gothic 1,2,3, Risen, the Witcher, Oblivion, Morrowind... and I can only imagine (with pain just for the thought) what piece of whatever would be NWN without the toolset and the online servers with amazing worlds/stories. The OC was really just a demo of the toolset capabilities then.

And if you think PC market is broken, well, it may indeed be, for broken (bugged)  games, broken spirited companies, etc. I bet that it is not broken for Blizzard, CD Projekt/Atari, JoWooD/Spellbound, Piranha Bytes/Deep Silver, to mention just a few of them. I'd rather BioWare would not even bother to release a console game for the PC in such conditions.

Oh, and I recently noticed that the 900MB community patch made for Gothic 3, after Publisher and Dev broke out and the devs were forbidden to patch the game, was made with contribution by CD Projekt and Spellbound people, along with some of the original devs people "incognito".

And if they think the PC market doesn't deserve their consideration anymore, perhaps because of file sharing, I'll gladly post a number of images of which pirated console disks will be for sale in the streets. Because it will be there. They are all there. All of the console exclusive games are there and sell more than the real thing. Since I don't have a console and will not have one anytime soon (My PC rocks and there are and there will always be awesome games made for it, not merely adapted from a console piece-of-fill-the-blank!)

The strategic view, while some people claim not to use it att all, is a very important tool specially in higher difficulty, to let us evaluate a battlefield. And it's is at 1 mouse wheel click so it's very fast and practical to use it and back to close combat.

Man sorry but we get it.  You think modding is the panicle of gaming.  I agree with allot of what you say  but every post you make is the same argument to people who are not arguing with you.

[edmogt1]

*grumble*



At this point the only way I'll end up buying DA2 is if it includes exported assets for the DA1 toolset and the DA1 toolset can mod for it.



I might as well throw in my two-cents on this because I need to vent: It's really sad that Bioware has EA as a publisher for this game. EA doesn't care anymore for the PC. They care about making a fast turnaround.



Its more than that the PC market is "broken", its more that the game industry mirrors the general entertainment industry which pumps out cookie-cutter crap to make $$$.



I was hoping DA2 would have been more like Baldur's Gate 2....and, in general, I was hoping that I would see Bioware make a game like NWN again that had a huge community playing and creating custom content. But, that isn't really profitable, as mentioned previously. No multiplayer, no DMing, and now no toolset.



Yes, I have to accept Im in the minority; I'm part of a niche market of gamers who want custom modules, the ability to express their creativity and have a multiplayer experience. But, I was really hoping that Bioware was gonna deliver something to this niche market. Oh well.



Its too bad that Obsidian took way too long in updating NWN2, making mods automatically download. If they had that feature in the beginning, I would assume they would have kept the NWN community and their community would have grown. Too late.



Well, I'll keep wishing for another NWN experience.



Maybe if obsidian open-sources the Aurora engine.... I can only dream.

[DragonRageGT]

Solid N7 wrote...

-Semper- wrote...

now all the people who laughed at the doomsayers can turn their backs and hang their heads in shame... da2 is in fact a dumbed down console game to satisfy the casual gamers!

And this is because thief pc users, I feel sorry for the pc gamers that buy their games, but the reality is that are more thief users than honest pc gamers.

You have no idea of what you're talking about since there are many more thives console users than honest console gamers. People who have even 2 consoles, one for legit, one for the pirated disk. And for all I care, console is for 13 yrs old kids whose daddies won't let them touch their big machines.

[Trooper Guy1]

 I will try to wait for confirmation, however, I think I will just wait for other RPGs like Fallout New Vegas and whenever Bethesda gets to it, TES V.

[RogueWriter3201]

I have not gone through all the posts, as such I'm not up to date on any other viewpoints, however, I will simply say that with all due respect to my PC cousins and the talented Modders out there I, for one, am quite pleased to know that DA2 will not have a Toolset nor the Asometric camera. It seems petulant, and for that I apologize, but, it was never very fair that PC players who could afford the Computer Rigs required to run DAO and the Toolset had, in essence, a "Superior" version of the game with room for modding, while those of us who must depend on Consoles for our Gaming were left in the dust. The simple fact is, consoles comprise the majority of the *primary* gaming Market, with some small exceptions going to PCs for genres like MMOs and RTS titles - i.e. Starcraft II-

Hopefully, BioWare is just one of many previous PC centric developers to put their full attention on Consoles. Doing so creates a much more stable and cost-efficient product with less chance for bugs. I think DAO's well documented gliches and bugs can be attributed to BioWare's creative resources being stretched too thin. The more focus given to consoles, the less likely we'll have to endure long waits for patches or even the need for them such as with Mass Effect 2 which, for almost all players, contains no game breaking glitches on consoles. Now, if the OP's Article proves to be incorrect, I shall be happy for the Mod Community. However, if it is true, I'll take an even greater measure of comfort in the knowledge that for Dragon Age's second outing, both Console and PC gamers are on a level playing field.

[JasonPogo]

glenboy24 wrote...

I have not gone through all the posts, as such I'm not up to date on any other viewpoints, however, I will simply say that with all due respect to my PC cousins and the talented Modders out there I, for one, am quite pleased to know that DA2 will not have a Toolset nor the Asometric camera. It seems petulant, and for that I apologize, but, it was never very fair that PC players who could afford the Computer Rigs required to run DAO and the Toolset had, in essence, a "Superior" version of the game with room for modding, while those of us who must depend on Consoles for our Gaming were left in the dust. The simple fact is, consoles comprise the majority of the *primary* gaming Market, with some small exceptions going to PCs for genres like MMOs and RTS titles - i.e. Starcraft II-

Hopefully, BioWare is just one of many previous PC centric developers to put their full attention on Consoles. Doing so creates a much more stable and cost-efficient product with less chance for bugs. I think DAO's well documented gliches and bugs can be attributed to BioWare's creative resources being stretched too thin. The more focus given to consoles, the less likely we'll have to endure long waits for patches or even the need for them such as with Mass Effect 2 which, for almost all players, contains no game breaking glitches on consoles. Now, if the OP's Article proves to be incorrect, I shall be happy for the Mod Community. However, if it is true, I'll take an even greater measure of comfort in the knowledge that for Dragon Age's second outing, both Console and PC gamers are on a level playing field.

No war but class war!

[ShaggyWolf]

NvVanity wrote...

Ah no toolset. Drat. Oh well still got DA:O and Oblivion to mod.

Ditto. Just getting into modding these myself.

I'll probably still play DA 2 just to find out what happens, but it'll be back to those 2 shortly after I beat it. There's so many decisions about DA 2 that can be summed up as lame. I'm more excited about the upcoming DLC for DA:O than I am about DA2.

[Nerevar-as]

Never used toolset, but aerial cam was really useful for area spells.



The only thing so far I find interesting in this game are the insights in Quanri culture. And it´s tiring to see consoles limit what a PC can actually achieve. I know it is were money is, but I don´t think these changes are going to make DA2 much more a hit than Origins was.

[UberDuber]

NO.

Modifié par UberDuber, 07 août 2010 - 09:58 .