1227 réponses à ce sujet

[DPB]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As a console gamer I have to ask the following: was anything worthwhile actually produced with the DAO toolset?

Aside from stuff made by BioWare itself, obviously.

There's a few very good mods, mostly fixes, but it hasn't really taken off anywhere near as much NWN, and to a lesser extent NWN2 did. I think the general consensus is that it's too difficult for the average user to make anything. NWN was built from the ground up as a 'make your own D&D game' toolkit, DAO was solely focused on the single player campaign so what we got was a software development kit with some tweaks.

There are many excellent user-created modules for NWN, but that was because just about anyone could make something in it - you could be a great writer with no programming or scripting experience and still produce something great.

[Daerog]

rexil wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As a console gamer I have to ask the following: was anything worthwhile actually produced with the DAO toolset?

Aside from stuff made by BioWare itself, obviously.

Aside from fixing a lot of bugs? Plenty of fun things that make you want to play the game again and again.

Some really awesome looking custom armors. Fixed the ancient elven boot problem. Allowed me to skip the tedious parts of the Fade after the fifth playthrough. Now, there were not many (if any, didn't really look)huge modules made by the community that involved large custom storylines like BW made, but that is because it wasn't the easiest toolset to jump into. I think some custom classes were made as well, but I wasn't interested in those.

[cmessaz]

I am personally not that upset about the view. However the lack of a toolset will kill DA2 for me, having spent months finding and repairing the many DAO bugs in the toolset and working with others who have done the same.

Modifié par cmessaz, 07 août 2010 - 11:36 .

[Nerevar-as]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

SDNcN wrote...

Looking into my crystal ball:

Marketing hype increases closer to release date, like Mass Effect 2, the game sells millions of units and is critically hailed as an improvement over the old system despite a unhappy minority.

Certainly. At least for me, while this is disappointing, it isn't gamebreaking. However, does give me fear for when they announce changes to the classes/specializations/stats.

Edit: Like I said earlier, this is hardly thinking like a general w/o the aerial view. More thinking like an uninformed general. Removes much of the tactical feel.

But you fight like an Spartan! (sigh) Goodbye to Cloud Kill to the other side of a wall 10 meters away I fear.
Even if most people don´t like it, they probably won´t admit it unless DA3 fails. DA2 will be a success, don´t doubt that, but BECAUSE of what DA:O was, not despite.

[tmacairjordan87]

Estel78 wrote...

tmacairjordan87 wrote...

The only one of the old PC companies who still refuses to move to consoles is Blizzard.

And that's only because they only seem to make games that are just not suited for consoles.

Diablo could easily be done on consoles, they just haven't moved over because of WoW (I.E. they don't have to).  If/when the WoW money dries up and they can't strike the gold mine again, you can bet we'll start seeing Blizzard console games.

And when the Blizzard console games start selling the most on consoles, then we'll start seeing Blizzard become a primarily console developer, just like every other company before them.  I can't wait for that day.

Modifié par tmacairjordan87, 07 août 2010 - 11:35 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

RageGT wrote...

TalkingSkull wrote...

The most depressing news I've heard in a while. The computer RPG genre is pretty much dead now.

Oh well, at least it had a good run. Better to celebrate time well spent than mourn time lost.

 If if does, well, again, good luck to them and they should stick with Console games and leave the PC market to those commited with it!

But the GTA games were great on the PC

[fchopin]

I think i will make a cup of tea then come back and see if there are any dev replies.

[Ravenheart of the Wild]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As a console gamer I have to ask the following: was anything worthwhile actually produced with the DAO toolset?

Aside from stuff made by BioWare itself, obviously.

Are you kidding me? Some of the mods are absolute gems. As much as i like DAO without mods, for many of us mods add new flavour to the game experience and really make the replay value higher. DAO has really talented modding community that pushes out quality mods for the game. There are tons of mods some of them can offer combat tweaks, bug fixes, gorgeous armors, new cool weapons, new spells, new cosmetic options and even graphic enhancements.

So for me DAO2 without toolset really feels like a slap in the face.

Modifié par Ravenheart of the Wild, 07 août 2010 - 11:46 .

[filetemo]

Kordaris dissaproves -100

[Estel78]

Senzen Sumnor wrote...

Have to agree with Estel here (even if she seem to be a bit angry), Bioware was headed in the action RPG direction long before EA purchased them.

I am a he. No biggie, though.

[adneate]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As a console gamer I have to ask the following: was anything worthwhile actually produced with the DAO toolset?

Aside from stuff made by BioWare itself, obviously.

The Grey Warden Runic Armor comes to mind.


Also I design all my characters in the toolset since I think the presets BioWare provided with their Character Creator are substandard, and I use the toolset to make my own using many sliders and features that are not in the default Character Creator. I can say without any hesitation that without a Origins style toolset I will not buy this game, ever.

[SDNcN]

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

So this isn't a Bioware rpg, got it.

And why would it not be a Bioware game?

Every fantasy rpg from Bioware tries to be Baldur's Gate 2, and this would mean they've finally given up.  Also, just because something worked in Mass Effect 2 doesn't mean it should hop genres and wind up in an rpg.

They've made two fantasy games since Baldur's Gate 2.
Neverwinter Nights lacked party based combat and Dragon Age Origins emphasised tactical in the moment combat over strategic out of combat management.
Saying since up until now they've tried to emulate Baldur's Gate instead of let each game be its own is pretty wrong.

Modifié par SDNcN, 07 août 2010 - 11:40 .

[condiments1]

Estel78 wrote...

Dick Delaware wrote...

As slimgrim mentioned, no iso view is bad for everybody, not just PC gamers. It means that the game will most likely play out as a button-mashing game with less options and abilities for console players, not more. It would have been cool if you guys got iso view too, in fact I was sorta expecting it, instead there's less for everyone.

You are making a lot of assumptions. Isometric view is not the only good way to make combat work. Some of you just seem to be way too fixated on iso-view, if it's not iso it must suck, which is just nonsense.

You don't think encounters will be designed differently due to less field of view from a strictly 3rd person based perspective? Tell me you're not that naive.

Compare Baldur's gate 2 combat and KOTOR and you've got a serious picture of what we're looking at.

[Senzen Sumnor]

Estel78 wrote...

Senzen Sumnor wrote...

Have to agree with Estel here (even if she seem to be a bit angry), Bioware was headed in the action RPG direction long before EA purchased them.

I am a he. No biggie, though.

Sorry, saw the portrait, saw the name Estel (assumed female).

[Onyx Jaguar]

Hmm, almost sounds like people are more upset in this thread about the toolset. Makes it sound like they want to purchase a cheap toolset rather than become professional. I'm not sure what to make of this.

[FFTARoxorz05]

condiments1 wrote...

Compare Baldur's gate 2 combat and KOTOR and you've got a serious picture of what we're looking at.

1000 times this.

[DillanNZ]

As much as I love Dragon Age, if this proves true, I'm gonna have to skip DA2.
I really love the aerial view and the toolset(mods). Ohwell.

Though as I say this, I feel I might just end up buying it because I love the story so much.
Darn awesome writers, sucking me in.

Modifié par DillanNZ, 07 août 2010 - 11:42 .

[Estel78]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Disappointing news and (if true) I’ll not be picking the game up at launch as first intended. We really need to hear the official line on this one.

The Witcher 2 is looking a better game by the day!

The Witcher 2 looks like a great game no matter what the situation is with DA2.

[CaptainBlackGold]

I almost never post on these forums-lurking is more my style. But this "news" troubles me enough to "de-cloak." Sorry to vent on everyone but I feel like I have to get this off my chest.



First, as many have already said, with all due respect to the OP, this "news" should be taken with a "grain of salt" until a dev confirms it. It is highly possible that in the actual interview, there was some confusion in translation between the interviewer and Bioware. I too remember other Dev comments that the PC version was not going to be changed.



Secondly, as we have seen with previous magazine reports, the "journalists" often get it terribly wrong. Not their fault necessarily; they have to process information through their own filters, make assumptions and do not always know the right questions to ask.



Thirdly, if the "news" IS accurate; I may join the ranks of those who will let DA2 pass by - and I realize that Bioware couldn't care less about MY purchase - nor do they have any reason to do so.



It's just that Bioware is like an old friend and it is always sad when old friends take different paths. I have bought every Bioware game (except Sonic) since I discovered NWN. Furthermore, I usually bought two copies, one for me on my PC and one for my older kids on the X-Box. For my version, modding kept the game alive and fresh and allowed me to change those bits that didn't quite scratch where I itched - i.e., armor, weapons, game-play mods, etc.



Furthermore, while I came to get used to the OTS view of KOTOR, I missed NWN's scrolled out view because it allowed me to see what was happening all around me.



I always play DAO scrolled out, until cut scenes or when just exploring. So the chance of losing that in the next installation, is going to be sadly missed.



Bioware always made games I really, REALLY loved - and with modding, allowed me to change things around when our tastes differed (i.e., ugly mage hats, over-sized weapons, unattractive NPC's). One of the reasons I only played Jade Empire a couple of times was because I was unable to mod the game to the way I wanted to play.



Of course, this means little to Bioware's bottom line because they still got my money for both the PC and Xbox. Financially, it makes little difference to them if a customer plays their games once, or hundreds of time (I really do not want to calculate the amount of time I spent in NWN, KOTOR or DAO :-).



But for me, as a consumer, it made me appreciate Bioware both as a company and as artists. They let us play around in their world, shaping it the way we wanted while givine us incredible value for money.



Hence, I would greatly miss the modding, and would not care at all for no OTT camera - and I already have some reservations about the new art style with spikey armor. As things begin to be revealed, DA2 does not seem to be the kind of game I would enjoy. I hope I am wrong and that as we get further into the marketing cycle, Bioware will amaze me.



But for right now, I am forced into a "wait and see" at best attitude.



Thanks for letting me vent.



CBG

[HighlandBerserkr]

adneate wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

As a console gamer I have to ask the following: was anything worthwhile actually produced with the DAO toolset?

Aside from stuff made by BioWare itself, obviously.

The Grey Warden Runic Armor comes to mind.


Also I design all my characters in the toolset since I think the presets BioWare provided with their Character Creator are substandard, and I use the toolset to make my own using many sliders and features that are not in the default Character Creator. I can say without any hesitation that without a Origins style toolset I will not buy this game, ever.

Awesome Armour, Helmet is still ugly though, its a bucket with wings

[tmacairjordan87]

condiments1 wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

Dick Delaware wrote...

As slimgrim mentioned, no iso view is bad for everybody, not just PC gamers. It means that the game will most likely play out as a button-mashing game with less options and abilities for console players, not more. It would have been cool if you guys got iso view too, in fact I was sorta expecting it, instead there's less for everyone.

You are making a lot of assumptions. Isometric view is not the only good way to make combat work. Some of you just seem to be way too fixated on iso-view, if it's not iso it must suck, which is just nonsense.

You don't think encounters will be designed differently due to less field of view from a strictly 3rd person based perspective? Tell me you're not that naive.

Compare Baldur's gate 2 combat and KOTOR and you've got a serious picture of what we're looking at.

A much better game? Now I'm really excited for DA2

[Druss99]

This thread reminds me of the "epic community event" its become huge in a short amount of time without any dev response at all.

[Senzen Sumnor]

I think the toolset would be a bigger deal to me if there were some actual single player mods that you could play like NWN and NWN2. The armors, bug fixes and cosmetic changes are nice but I was hoping the mod community would take off more.



For me the Isometric view is a big deal as is the human only PC. It will almost certainly mean gameplay changes in combat (more KOTOR like) and less replayability.

[adneate]

HighlandBerserkr wrote...

Awesome Armour, Helmet is still ugly though, its a bucket with wings

Well that's where the no helmet mod comes in allowing you to hide the helmet while still getting all the benefits from it.