1227 réponses à ce sujet

[Vandrayke]

AmstradHero wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

So the mods that garner the most interest are those that make cosmetic changes to the game? Sounds like all people care about is pretty graphics and having attractive characters...

And people wonder why there won't be a DA2 toolset.

Considering the "pretty graphics" appear extremely important even to BioWare devs who are taking time to re-design the visuals of their game from the grounds up for DA2, in direct response to complaints DAO was lacking in this regard... how exactly do you arrive to such conclusion?

Sorry, that possibly came off a little harsher than I intended. Graphics have to be a focus of games. I'm not surprised given the complaints about DAO's improvements in the graphics arena.

Based on BioWare's initial focus after the release of the toolset, they seemed to expect more quest mods, but they have proven difficult for people to make thus far. I have nothing against cosmetic mods, and I appreciate the effort their creators go to - I know modelling is not easy, and that having more a more attractive game is a big thing for a lot of people. (No, I'm not saying I don't care about graphics at all, I do like "pretty graphics" too) But I do feel that quest mods have been neglected by the community at large at their expense.

Couldn't agree more.  It seems like there are like 5 actual quest mods and 5603 versions of different hair, makeup, and clothes.  

[cmessaz]

Estel78 wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

sami jo wrote...

The game itself is horribly bugged.

Again, DAO was horribly buggy? I didn't notice that.

Then you're blind because you certainly don't have a special non buggy copy of the game.

Or maybe i have a different viewpoint of what "horribly buggy" is.

Seriously, would you like a list? I will compile the 3 or 4 major npc dialogue repair read-mes to show you just how many bugs are in this game...

[FedericoV]

Nerevar-as wrote...

It WAS BG heir, so to speak. Not an action/rush feel. Now who knows.

I must repeat myself. I know the similarities between BG and DA:O and all that "spiritual successor" talks. My point is that with DA:O they tried to make something that felt more quick, fast and action oriented than BG. Can we agree on that?

My point is that a faster system based on cooldowns can't work very well with a combat approach that was developed 15 years ago for a slower gaming system based on turns like AD&D. And that the solution they have tried to give us to solve those problems revolved around the removal of control from party members with the tactics (wich is pretty pointless in a party based RPG game) or forcing us to pause every second.

Then, I know that I'm the minority and that most people thinks that DA:O combat is the state of the art in terms of gameplay. I do not think so, but I respect every view on the topic. Still, I know what I'm talking about .

[Vandrayke]

Estel78 wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

As an aside, I actually hate DLC because after I'm done playing a game, I don't want to pick it up again just to play 45 minutes of new crap or to put on different armor.  I have a feeling that DLC will evolve significantly with time.  

I'm the same. Well, i don't "hate" DLC, i just don't care for it. Most of the time i've already finished the game multiple times and moved on by the time a DLC comes out.

lol for sure... hate is definitely a strong word

More like apathetic about, I guess

[Estel78]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

So let me get this straight: according to you guys, what made Dragon Age: Origins great weren't the marvelous characters, the country of Ferelden, the epic storyline or the classic combat system... but the abilities to fix a few small bugs yourselves, create a custom piece of equipment or two, mod your characters' appearances and a toolset apparently that difficult to work with that there hasn't been something worth calling a module yet?

If so, consider me at a loss for words.

Great post. I approve.

[fchopin]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

Vandrayke wrote...

shedevil3001 wrote...

its not really so hard to understand that many would be upset by no toolset alot of hard work goes into mods and alot of time and effort to

I get that.  I don't get the, "there's no point in even playing this game," mentality, though.  Like a game cannot possibly be good unless it meets X prerequisites.  

exactly

It´s not that won´t be good, but that it won´t be the game I want to play. Radical example as it was a genre shift, maybe Dreamfall is a good game, but doesn´t feel like a sequel to The Longest Journey. Here I don´t want DA gameplay to feel too different, but so far it seems to be going that way. And the amount of bugs the patches do not cover is big. Awakening has the epilogues not matching the codex, Anora "mourning" Alistair who is standing a meter away,....

I LOVED Dreamfall I want another one! 

Considering the ending it doesn´t surprise me.

I would love another also.

[DahliaLynn]

PanosSmirnakos wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Btw, another example of what can be done with the Toolset...

Warden's Fall, machinima mini-series:

it got quite a few praises even from BioWare devs. go figure.

Heh, this is a great example to demonstrate the power of the toolset and the abilities of some modders. And how cut scenes in the original vanilla game should be...

Which was why I got into modding in the first place. The toolset is incredible. And provides the user with the abiltiy to make scenes such as those as well a improving the vanilla scenes with things we may have ****wanted**** to see but didn't have the chance?

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 08 août 2010 - 01:25 .

[shedevil3001]

Estel78 wrote...

shedevil3001 wrote...

for alot of people its replayability that matters and once you've played it you want new and different when dlc is released not all like them so they make mods to spice up their game removing toolset makes some lose intrest in the replay aspect 

There's already a lot of replayability in Bioware games, more than in almost any other games.

If i have seen everything there is to see i get me a new game. Then again, i don't have such a... how should i say it, narrow taste and enjoy many different genres so i have quite a lot to play.

fyi i have over 200 games but i happen to love dao and the reason i love it is because i use mods that fix bugs in game and other mods that add more scenes that are in toolset but were cut from the game which makes my game replayability more fun, that doesnt mean i dont enjoy other games just that this game is better by far also that is because of how many fantastic mods are out there, i myself like to play around in the toolset and its not easy to use but is lots of fun.

[Gaxhung]

DahliaLynn wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Didn't we see the game in top down view on the dev video featured on Game Informer?

Hmmm you mean here? at 03:31?

www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php

Yup, at 3:35 there is a steeper top down view. (thanks for link!)

[cmessaz]

jln.francisco wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Estel78 wrote...

sami jo wrote...

The game itself is horribly bugged.

Again, DAO was horribly buggy? I didn't notice that.

Then you're blind because you certainly don't have a special non buggy copy of the game.

Or maybe i have a different viewpoint of what "horribly buggy" is.

Or a very high tolerance for it. 

Others don't and personally I'm not about to put up with something I can't stand because someone else doesn't think it's all that bad. It is my gaming experience afterall and not theirs.

So, because some people can handle multiple stupid bugs the rest of us have no right to complain. Didn't you know? 

[Kabraxal]

AmstradHero wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

So the mods that garner the most interest are those that make cosmetic changes to the game? Sounds like all people care about is pretty graphics and having attractive characters...

And people wonder why there won't be a DA2 toolset.

Considering the "pretty graphics" appear extremely important even to BioWare devs who are taking time to re-design the visuals of their game from the grounds up for DA2, in direct response to complaints DAO was lacking in this regard... how exactly do you arrive to such conclusion?

Sorry, that possibly came off a little harsher than I intended. Graphics have to be a focus of games. I'm not surprised given the complaints about DAO's improvements in the graphics arena.

Based on BioWare's initial focus after the release of the toolset, they seemed to expect more quest mods, but they have proven difficult for people to make thus far. I have nothing against cosmetic mods, and I appreciate the effort their creators go to - I know modelling is not easy, and that having more a more attractive game is a big thing for a lot of people. (No, I'm not saying I don't care about graphics at all, I do like "pretty graphics" too) But I do feel that quest mods have been neglected by the community at large at their expense.

It's hasn't even been a year yet... and given that many people would want fully voiced quest mods, it isn't surprising to find there are few quest mods.  I for one greatly appreciate the few out there, but understand that the effort to program, write, and then basically act/direct is a heavy burden on a person who is not only doing it for free, but has a job/family that comes first.  It will take longer than the old style text driven story mods.

[Estel78]

Merkar wrote...

Oblivion is still one heck of a game with loads of great mods.

Oblivion was pretty meh. I prefer RPGs that focus on story, characters and story choices. Oblivion was basically an offline MMO.

[tmp7704]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Warden's Fall, machinima mini-series:

Fair enough, even I enjoyed that. Still, it's no playable module.

That's true, but i think it actually makes stronger case for existence of the Toolset that it isn't -- consider it rather a great advertising tool, something people can send as link to their friends who never played DA, and get their interest up about the IP this way, make them aware about the game in the first place. Something the people in marketing department with any brains should be drooling at.

[m4x1mus]

To be honest, the lack of modding tools isn't too bad. From the screenshots, DA:2's supposedly updated graphics are rubbish anyway, so there is little reason the DA:1 toolset is inadequate.

Hopefully the modding community will grow significantly now nobody is crossing their fingers for a toolset 2.0

The lack of an aerial view would mean that Bioware outright lied to us, as they specifically stated that the PC version would retain the "general" command aspect, which suited the platform well.

[Brockololly]

tmp7704 wrote...
That's true, but i think it actually makes stronger case for existence of the Toolset that it isn't -- consider it rather a great advertising tool, something people can send as link to their friends who never played DA, and get their interest up about the IP this way, make them aware about the game in the first place. Something the people in marketing department with any brains should be drooling at.

Exactly- just looking at youtube comments (as painful as that can be) on the Warden's Fall videos, you see people all excited about it that apparently never played DAO. The toolset is a versatile thing if you take the time to know how to use it.

[Koralis]

Vandrayke wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

Based on BioWare's initial focus after the release of the toolset, they seemed to expect more quest mods, but they have proven difficult for people to make thus far. I have nothing against cosmetic mods, and I appreciate the effort their creators go to - I know modelling is not easy, and that having more a more attractive game is a big thing for a lot of people. (No, I'm not saying I don't care about graphics at all, I do like "pretty graphics" too) But I do feel that quest mods have been neglected by the community at large at their expense.

Couldn't agree more.  It seems like there are like 5 actual quest mods and 5603 versions of different hair, makeup, and clothes.  

It's hard to make quests, and Bioware poisoned the incentive to do it with all of the DLC giving people other things to do than make something to be the toast of the community.

[zahra]

Nerevar-as wrote...

RageGT wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

I think I'll go crawl into this corner and wait for... hell at this point the Second Coming I guess.

Or you could just wait for The Witcher 2 and support someone who actually supports you.

I know I intend to.

OMG! Thank you for the link! While I'm excited just to know that TW2 release is nearing... did you read that message? Is that for real? Hidden in 1 frame of the trailer? I've watched it before but the player within the browser doesn't let me advance frame-by-frame.

"This message is for our biggest fans. Analyzing our stuff pixel by pixel. It's good to see you again! :-)
BTW: Simple minded people think that nobody is reading these days, dear reader of this, we think that we can agree that is bull****, huh?
Same as the fact that single player RPGs are dead, or PCs?
We sold 1.5 million units of the game from a dying genre on a dying platform - so we somehow cannot agree ;-)

Before we start talking about TW2 please let us thank you for your great support and appreciation.
It always motivates us and make us happy.

We started working on TW2 right after release of TW. Our goal was to create all the things which made TW so great even better in TW2.
We are very proud of TW but lets be honest, it was our debut. We never made any game before, and we practically learned as we worked.
So there were many things which could be done better, you know it as good as us :-)
But the vision, the main concept, remains the same: a game with a mature, captivating and non linear story, and full of spectacular combat.
A game created by a team of independant thinkers immune to corporate priorities, who don't care what's trendy at the given moment.

The core vision of the game hasn't changed. What has changed is the quality and the maturity we can deliver. That's largely because we're more experienced and also due to the fact that we've cerated our own technology. Do you remember how we made significant improvements with the Aurora Engine in the original game, but it still had its limitations?
Now we've created technology designed specifically to create non-linear games with extensive plotlines and a living word...
Well, there's no point in expanding on that too much - you have to check out our tech yourselves!

Nevertheless, we have many reasons to believe that you will like The Witcher 2!
See you soon and stay tuned!"

Now this is good marketing to a game. Just bring back Yenn and Ciri and it´ll be perfect.:happy:

Just this letter alone has made me order the game online. I didn't want to play it at first, due to the fact that I don't like fixed gendered games, but how can you not support them after a letter like thus? Even if its just bullsh** THIS is how marketing is done. Not blatant buzzwords, but words that recognize the fact that they are addressing humans (in this case, a bunch of lunatics who are really passionate about gaming). 

Bioware's marketing for DA 2 has been really badly done (Fight like a Spartan??? Who gives a fraggle fug about that?? Don't you even know me anymore Bioware?? We used to be so in sync! *cries*). I really can't make my decision yet until I get more info but so far most of the announcements have either scared me/made me concerned/put me off.

I really want to believe in Bioware (since I have been an avid fan since NWN), so I won't make a super dramatic statement like "I am not going to buy this ish!" but neither is it on my preorder list when it should have been an easy sale. 

[LadyKarrakaz]

Gaxhung wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Didn't we see the game in top down view on the dev video featured on Game Informer?

Hmmm you mean here? at 03:31?

www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php

Yup, at 3:35 there is a steeper top down view. (thanks for link!)

Hum, top down, but not isometric. They seem to have created an hybrid view able to run on all platforms. I'll edit first post with the link. Thanks.

[JamieCOTC]

DahliaLynn wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Didn't we see the game in top down view on the dev video featured on Game Informer?

Hmmm you mean here? at 03:31?

www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php

Here's an image:

[DPB]

Gaxhung wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Didn't we see the game in top down view on the dev video featured on Game Informer?

Hmmm you mean here? at 03:31?

www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php

Yup, at 3:35 there is a steeper top down view. (thanks for link!)

That just shows the camera titled a bit, I wouldn't call it top down or comparable to DAO when fully zoomed out. It's also a development build, they probably have the camera unlocked for easier testing.

[aragfore03]

Gaxhung wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

Gaxhung wrote...

Didn't we see the game in top down view on the dev video featured on Game Informer?

Don't get too excited. That was the 360 version you were looking at and that was NOT a top down view like what is in DAO for the PC. 

Hmmm you mean here? at 03:31?

www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php

Yup, at 3:35 there is a steeper top down view. (thanks for link!)

[AmstradHero]

TheMufflon wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Given I'm a modder, I know exactly what I'm talking about. Or perhaps you didn't look at my sig or haven't played my mod.
Do me a favour. Check out the most popular mods here and on DANexus. And lay off the insults

So what you're saying is that since people didn't want to play your mod, they shouldn't get any mods at all?

adneate wrote...
Really your logic is that because cosmetic mods (which are the easiest to make) are popular BioWare should stop supporting the mod community all together. It took over a year before the really good mods came out for
Oblivion but since the Dragon Age modders haven't done it already we should never have a toolset again since apparently we abused it. I love reading all these ignorant posts by people that don't bother to think outside of their own little world and then when people call them on said BS they act surprised.

I support having a toolset. And I support having mods of all kinds. However, BioWare's primary focus is on story, and all their promotional information about the toolset was about letting people create their own stories. That hasn't been the focus of a large proportion of the modding community, so I can imagine that would decrease the likelihood of them releasing a DA2 toolset. The degree of that effect, I don't know.

However, the primary consideration is does it make money? BioWare are a business, after all, and need to make money from selling their products. A toolset doesn't sell hordes and hordes of games. Releasing and supporting one requires a lot of time and money. They were nice and gave us a toolset with DAO when they didn't have to. Giving us an updated one with DA2 would take a lot of effort.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 08 août 2010 - 01:35 .