1227 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

But we can't see as much at a time, unless you let us move the camera farther from our characters than you did in DAO.

Why not let us pull it up higher?  Sure, it would kill the framerate, but if that bothers us we can just not do it.

Or are you trying to protect us from ourselves again?

You need to stop doing that.  Let us play as we see fit, not as you see fit.

Please don't make DA2 yet another piece of software that woul benefit from an "I am not an idiot" button which then enables all the most powerful tools.  There are far too many of those in the world today.

How about make the maximum camera range moddable?  Put it in an easily modifiable script somewhere.

[Rivikai]

DA2 is going consolized. The vague response they gave is just placating you, so you purchase the game and then learn your disappointment. I used to be a big fan of Bioware, and thought they were one of the few pro-PC gaming companies left, but it appears they're not. Only Valve, Stardock, and a few others are left.

[joriandrake]

AmstradHero wrote...

I don't expect BioWare to treat us like dirt, we have the Internet for that.

This is quote-worthy.

Mod Edit: Spam image removed.

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:03 .

[Chairon de Celeste]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Hey folks,

Victor managed to hunt me down, and I wanted to clear up a few things with regards to what I'm seeing as the two major concerns on this thread.

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

As you can probably tell from my phrasing, all of this is a bit in-flux right now, so things may change between now and ship, but I wanted to update you guys on the current direction of things.

Mike..

Though as you wrote all is still in the flux, thanks for the update
- much appreciated

Mod Edit: Spam image removed.

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:03 .

[_John Crichton]

joriandrake wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

I don't expect BioWare to treat us like dirt, we have the Internet for that.

This is quote-worthy, Inko approves of it.

[nightmare inducing parrot snip]

That... was ugly.

[Saibh]

Since this thread has been stickied, shouldn't the title be changed to be less...misleading?

[Dileos]

Saibh wrote...

Since this thread has been stickied, shouldn't the title be changed to be less...misleading?

This.

[_John Crichton]

Saibh wrote...



Since this thread has been stickied, shouldn't the title be changed to be less...misleading?

Doesn't look stickied to me



Besides, how is the title misleading? There is no iso view and no toolset update at launch...

[ashwind]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...



While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

On tactical view - personally I do not use them in most fights because I like to see my character in action. Difficult fights, fights that I need to issue a command to a character to intercept someone running in from around the corner, I will have to use tactical view because I simply cannot click the enemy from where the said character is standing.



Another situation that tactical view is absolutely needed for me is when I am fighting in tight spots, small rooms or when I get thrown into a corner by some knock back attack - I cant click or do anything useful because the camera is blocked by 3 walls - no matter which character I switch to, I still cant see/control what is going on - like ordering my mage to cast a spell on the archer just outside the room - because it is so difficult and sometimes impossible to get a click on that archer.



It is good to hear that BW is at least considering a tactical view that might not pull so far back but it is absolutely necessary for some situations.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Depending how free-roaming the camera is, the lack of a high-angle view might not be a big deal.

But it might. And there's no way for even BioWare to know that until we players try it out. So why not make it an option?

[joriandrake]

John Crichton wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

I don't expect BioWare to treat us like dirt, we have the Internet for that.

This is quote-worthy, Inko approves of it.

[nightmare inducing parrot snip]

That... was ugly.

Aw, don't mess with Inko, that parrot is the funnies thing from Toradora

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:04 .

[DragonRageGT]

Dileos wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

 I've enjoyed Mass Effect even though it doesn't have a toolset.

This, I don't see the big deal about the possible  lack of a toolset. Mass Effect was great. And it doesn't even have a modding community, let alone a toolset. A game thats truly great doesn't need mods, they just add extra icing to the cake.

Yep, we can cleary see by your Avatar that you don't use mods.. heh

Average games are turned into a better stuff by the modding community. Great games are turned into great Epic games that live on. There are great NWN Permanent Worlds to this date, in many categories. Action, Story, Light and Hardcore RP, with amazing and unique settings, worlds, background story and usage of resources that were never available in the OC or xpacks.

Delete all your DA mods and play it Vanilla and see the difference. Even if only cosmetics or functional helpers like the party camp chest, personal annoyance removal and many others (oh, and the bug fixes... those that no official patch has dealt with so far for some unclear reason)

And about those that "hardly" use the tactical view, I'd dare to guess that

1) They don't play in Nightmare diff or NM plus.
2) Even if they do, they don't care about dying a lot during a run. Or getting injured if you prefer.
3) They wouldn't play it "Hardcore, like a man does!" (that's the motto of Hardcore Gothic 1, 2 or 3 with Community Patch enhanced AI/balance players. None of which I play Hardcore, btw. Too tough games and HC for them requires chicken tactics and finishing the game in 5 hours i/o 50! And never cared for the motto. I am trying to make a joke with it)
4) They rarely or never cast Storm of the Century and live to tell the story of the century
5) They have no idea of what they're missing.
6) They don't play DA in a PC but in a Console with no tactical view anyway!

[DragonRageGT]

joriandrake wrote...
Aw, don't mess with Inko, that parrot is the funnies thing from Toradora

My Mother in law's parrot is cuter, smarter and has a much larger vocabulary and musical abilities than that crap!

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:05 .

[Brockololly]

Part of the problem with the lack of a proper isometric view or lack of toolset update is that in my view it just perpetuates the notion that BioWare isn't giving the PC version any attention. The changes being touted so far all have their roots in the deficiencies of the console version of Origins.

While its great that the console version is being fixed up, whats going to improve in the PC version? Everything I've heard thus far is that they're just cutting away PC features like the iso view or toolset that made Origins a great game on the PC. Its nice to know that they're supposedly "investigating" a toolset update or that they're working on the camera, but why muck around with the PC's camera in the first place? It worked great in Origins- if anything it should have zoomed out more.

Any technical arguments about the textures is just rubbish- if its that, its basically meaning they don't see the payoff in putting in the time and effort for a feature that would only be seen on the PC's- which just doesn't bode well in my view that DA2 on the PC won't be anything other than yet another console port not taking advantage of the platform.

Its just so disappointing since Origins was a joy to play on the PC and BioWare is just seemingly going for the quick console port this go around...

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 août 2010 - 07:44 .

[Dileos]

RageGT wrote...



Yep, we can cleary see by your Avatar that you don't use mods.. heh

Oh I'm not saying I don't use them. I think I have half of DANexus sitting in my override folder, including some of my own personal creations.  

My point simply was, that the possible lack of a toolset at launch just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Now a tactical camera on the other hand is something that I can't live without.

Modifié par Dileos, 08 août 2010 - 07:43 .

[_John Crichton]

joriandrake wrote...

John Crichton wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

I don't expect BioWare to treat us like dirt, we have the Internet for that.

This is quote-worthy, Inko approves of it.

[nightmare inducing parrot snip]

That... was ugly.

Aw, don't mess with Inko, that parrot is the funnies thing from Toradora

The link made it worse!

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:05 .

[Jangling Jack]

Rivikai wrote...

DA2 is going consolized. The vague response they gave is just placating you, so you purchase the game and then learn your disappointment. I used to be a big fan of Bioware, and thought they were one of the few pro-PC gaming companies left, but it appears they're not. Only Valve, Stardock, and a few others are left.

This is so true!

It's funny that some (most?) people seem to be too stupid to understand that all the bull**** about new "improved" graphics, dialogue wheel, changes to Aerial tactical camera view, etc is just the developers putting a spin on the consolization of the game.

And just for the record, I also own a console and like to play games on it. But certain games I much rather play on the PC and RPG's in particular are a much better experience on yhe PC. At least if the developers can be bothered not to let the game suffer from "consolization" (which DA2 unforunately seems to be).

Modifié par Jangling Jack, 08 août 2010 - 07:48 .

[phaonica]

Dileos wrote...

RageGT wrote...



Yep, we can cleary see by your Avatar that you don't use mods.. heh

Oh I'm not saying I don't use them. I think I have half of DANexus sitting in my override folder, including some of my own personal creations.  

My point simply was, that the possible lack of a toolset at launch just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Now a tactical camera on the other hand is something that I can't live without.

And see I'm the opposite of that. I can do without the tactical camera, yet the toolset was for me the deciding factor on why I bought Origins instead of something else.

[joriandrake]

RageGT wrote...

joriandrake wrote...
Aw, don't mess with Inko, that parrot is the funnies thing from Toradora

My Mother in law's parrot is cuter, smarter and has a much larger vocabulary and musical abilities than that crap!

You don't get it, Inko if funny because he is ill/crazy, but I guess you have to watch Toradora! to understand what it is about.

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 12:06 .

[danien.grey]

Dileos wrote...
My point simply was, that the possible lack of a toolset at launch just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Now a tactical camera on the other hand is something that I can't live without.

Silence Infidel, or we will burn you at the stake!

I'd like to have my cake and eat it too, but if I had to make Sophie's Choice, I'd take the toolset over the camera.

[joriandrake]

phaonica wrote...

Dileos wrote...

RageGT wrote...



Yep, we can cleary see by your Avatar that you don't use mods.. heh

Oh I'm not saying I don't use them. I think I have half of DANexus sitting in my override folder, including some of my own personal creations.  

My point simply was, that the possible lack of a toolset at launch just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Now a tactical camera on the other hand is something that I can't live without.

And see I'm the opposite of that. I can do without the tactical camera, yet the toolset was for me the deciding factor on why I bought Origins instead of something else.

I personally would be more upset with loss of tactical view than with toolset

[Ponce de Leon]

Victor Wachter wrote...
Mike's a new dad, so it's easy to find him at home right now. It'll be harder around the time of DA3 and beyond when the kid wants to go outside.

Uh-huh, so we can officially say that Dragon Age 3 is announced... even before the release of the second one

[Dileos]

danien.grey wrote...

Dileos wrote...
My point simply was, that the possible lack of a toolset at launch just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Now a tactical camera on the other hand is something that I can't live without.

Silence Infidel, or we will burn you at the stake!

I'd like to have my cake and eat it too, but if I had to make Sophie's Choice, I'd take the toolset over the camera.

Ah, but see you do amazing things like the Alley of Murders. (which was freaking awesome by the way)

The best thing I can whip up is a crappy looking sword or a decent morph

Modifié par Dileos, 08 août 2010 - 07:54 .