1227 réponses à ce sujet

[Aldain]

babchenko wrote...

So who here wouldn't buy DA2 if it didn't have a tactical view? I know I'd be hesitant to buy it with what I've read about it so far. The entire thing reeks of lazy.

That is definitely a dealbreaker for me as well. I'm well aware posters on these boards are prone to naysaying and excaggeration, but quite simply: If DA2 lacks a tactical view, I'm not buying it.

As has already been said, the tactical view in DA: O was already very limited (impossible to scroll far enough to place spells in appropriate positions if the mobs you were targetting were more than say 20 yards off because the damn thing auto-focused on the selected character etc), and if they're going to make it even more restrictive.. yuck.

Have to say every time there's news about DA2 I end up slightly disappointed. I want a sequel to DA: O, not another action-RPG. For me one of the most important things that defined BG2 (and by definition DA: O, being the "spiritual successor") was the tactical combat. I want to be able to direct, in detail, my entire party. While that's possible using strictly third-person view, it becomes more difficult (again, especially in the case of mages wanting to say take out a line of archers hovering way outside camera range).

It's at the point now where I'll be waiting for reviews (player reviews, not magazine/website ones) before deciding if DA2 is worth my money or not. Still, I'm sure there'll be some comment about how I don't really know anything about the game yet (despite the podcasts, magazine interviews etc) and that Bioware doesn't give two hoots whether I buy it or not

[oblivionenss]

mr_nameless wrote...

Any really good Role Playing Games to be looking forward to now??
I'm saving my money now for independent game studios.

The witcher 2 is the only one that comes to mind, and it is pc exclusive

[ashwind]

EA: Bioware, stop releasing toolsets updates for DA2!!



Bioware: Why m'lord?



EA: Because we are selling DLC!! If the community makes better custom content than us! That would affect our DLC sales!!



Bioware: But m'lord.. there will be a riot!



EA: Silence worm! Do you not see what they have done!!! Some sodding modder actually FIXED the female body proportion! Every female in Thedas should have G cups!! The sodding modders FIXED that! Females models actually looks... more realistic!! They no longer have unreal G cups, the big boss is quite "down" after learning this fact!



Bioware: Yes M'lord.. I suppose..



EA: Also! While the freaking PC version of DAO is getting better reviews in general! The console sales are better and we cannot to afford to have the console users think that they are second class citizens because they put food on your sodding table!



Bioware: But M'lord, there are limitations on consoles...



EA: Do you take me as a fool, do you not think I know that!? I am not asking you to give console more! Things that cannot be done properly or seamlessly in console must be EXCLUDED from the PC version! That way, console owners will not feel that they are second class citizens! So, if you cannot give console owners tactical view, take it away from everyone, then all is FAIR!



Bioware: What about the PC &Modding Community? They will not be happy about this...



EA: Lock them up in the alienage and sell them off as slaves for all I sodding care! Clearly, the console version is where MY money is!

[Sauronych]

Looks like The Witcher 2 is our only hope.

[FuzFuz]

Nice, first the bad graphics screens, then the stupid and ridiculous change to the Qunari, now this.

No way I'm buying this one.



Sure, blame piracy, not incompetence.

[Firky]

I don't understand the "Don't release a Toolset because we want to sell DLC argument". Have you used the Toolset? It's kinda tricky. And there are a fair few small mods, for character models etc, but so few adventure modules yet. Like anything that could rival Leliana's Song.



Am I missing the point?

[zahra]

joriandrake wrote...

people, stop insulting eachother

I agree with this so much.

Civil discourse is possible, please make an effort in this direction people. Thanks. 

[ENHbrometheus]

I honestly don't understand how this answer sated the majority of you. It was not reassuring, it was not calming, if anything, it was a verification of what we already knew and some very vague maybes, but with a little song and dance that came with it and some smooth PR talk.

Honestly, I agree with Brockololly completely on this issue, and I don't understand how the lot of you don't understand what Laidlaw's answer was, it was and remains a PR attempt to downplay the huge changes they're making, while still going along as planned. They're tearing apart the elements that made the original great in the interest of sales and are not fully investing their time and talent in the PC platform as they did previously.

Ignoring even that, the sequel is a rushed effort, as shown by how far along they are versus their estimated release date, plus the fact that it's barely a year later, and I would be surprised if we saw anything even close to the wonderful game that was DA:O.

All of you should prepare yourselves for another ME2, a bad port of a game made for consoles.

Modifié par ENHbrometheus, 08 août 2010 - 11:05 .

[Firky]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

Actually, I think no tactical view might actually be a deal breaker for me too. And that is really saying something. And that would probably be the only dealbreaker for me.

But I guess this quote is reassuring. But what are the "key elements" of the tactical experience exactly? And what does this mean? " I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders". Sounds interesting, but I don't get it.

Modifié par Firky, 08 août 2010 - 11:07 .

[adriano_c]

Dragon Age: Dark Alliance...

[FedericoV]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Hey folks,

Victor managed to hunt me down, and I wanted to clear up a few things with regards to what I'm seeing as the two major concerns on this thread.

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some expanded party control that I think will make console players quite happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

As you can probably tell from my phrasing, all of this is a bit in-flux right now, so things may change between now and ship, but I wanted to update you guys on the current direction of things.

Mike..

Thanks Mike, an honest answer that I appreciate a lot. I understand that you can't say more.

My conclusion: gameplay will change moderately and we will have the option to pause and watch the battlefield from an isometric point of view (even if not with the freedom we have got in DA:O).

For all the people who are angry since DA2 is a console tittle... I'm a PC gamer but looking at sales without the console title there would not be a DA2 since DA:O would have been an epic fail (in terms of sale... many pc players enjoyed it but not legally). Let's be honest. Pc market could not support an AAA title this days.

Modifié par FedericoV, 08 août 2010 - 11:28 .

[JSB93]

oblivionenss wrote...

mr_nameless wrote...

Any really good Role Playing Games to be looking forward to now??
I'm saving my money now for independent game studios.

The witcher 2 is the only one that comes to mind, and it is pc exclusive

Its coming out on Consoles to .

[Feraele]

Purple Lady wrote...

Well, I hope the journalist got it wrong, but as it is written, I can assure you it has been said by the official Bioware lead designer himself.
Sorry about this, I wish I was joking, but it's cruel reality.

From the sounds of that interview,  PC users have been relegated to the back of the bus,   guess my money isn't as good as those wondrous console users ..huh?   Even though I have bought every single DA product that has come out thus far...I (meaning PC users in general) still don't count for beans, according to that interview?   

Not smart.

[Fraevar]

JSB93 wrote...

Its coming out on Consoles to .

Maybe. Once they've shipped the PC version because they don't want to stretch themselves too thinly doing three versions and not giving each version its due attention.

BioWare could learn a thing or two.

[AbounI]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Purple Lady wrote...

Thanks, I'll edit the first post with your answer. But be aware that you sounded much more categorical in the press, sadly. Sorry they had to hunt you down for this and thank you for the quick answer.

I think there may have been translation issues. Listen to the podcast, you'll know instantly that I'm not prone to answers that are that...clipped.

As a french, I'm wondering if you own the right to ask the journalist the whole interview and to give it us.So anyone could see what were your true words, and the true questions too?
Yes, there could be possible translation issues, but perhpas not too.It's easy to pretend this journalist does not speak and understand so well a foreign language.
So, to enlight this dready situation, the better would be to give us an access to the whole interview.Don't you think so?Didn't you, with older game reviews and different reviewers, manage to to let them come back to their work and making corrections?

[Dileos]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this game manages to outsell the original. The average consumer is going to eat DAII up, just like they ate up Origins. BioWare is going to laugh their way to the bank, and all this whining will be for naught.

Everyone says Mass Effect was better than ME2. Yet the numbers beg to differ. And those numbers are what matters. See BioWare is a company..with workers...who have families...and they need to...you know...make money to feed those families. So as long as the game sells, then it was a successful game. Period.

What people fail to realize, is that Dragon Age was never some "old school tactical RPG". If you had any prior RPG experience the game only presented a bit of a challenge on nightmare. Dragon Age has always been a casual game, its just become more apparent to some of our slower members recently.

Modifié par Dileos, 08 août 2010 - 11:31 .

[Nighwolfa]

Even Morrigan doesnt like the fact theres no tools

[SoR82]

ENHbrometheus wrote...

I honestly don't understand how this answer sated the majority of you. It was not reassuring, it was not calming, if anything, it was a verification of what we already knew and some very vague maybes, but with a little song and dance that came with it and some smooth PR talk.

Honestly, I agree with Brockololly completely on this issue, and I don't understand how the lot of you don't understand what Laidlaw's answer was, it was and remains a PR attempt to downplay the huge changes they're making, while still going along as planned. They're tearing apart the elements that made the original great in the interest of sales and are not fully investing their time and talent in the PC platform as they did previously.

Ignoring even that, the sequel is a rushed effort, as shown by how far along they are versus their estimated release date, plus the fact that it's barely a year later, and I would be surprised if we saw anything even close to the wonderful game that was DA:O.

All of you should prepare yourselves for another ME2, a bad port of a game made for consoles.

~smiles~ Well done that man you nailed it every single "explanation" has been of this kind.

Well I was looking at either or probbably with my time restraints and WELL done the witcher 2 has won . Thanks you made my choice a lot easier.

[Aratham Darksight]

This incident really makes me question Bioware's communication strategy.

Anyone who's at least loosely followed this forum would know that the answers given to Joystick would cause a (well-deserved) riot here. The phrasing, especially on the tactical view issue, couldn't have been more inflammatory if they tried. Bioware obviously cares what we think, or they wouldn't have tracked down the lead designer in the middle of the weekend to comment for us. And yet they were completely unprepared to answer the predictable and inevitable response.

I'm not sure what to think.

[Aldain]

Dileos wrote...

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this game manages to outsell the original. The average consumer is going to eat DAII up, just like they ate up Origins. BioWare is going to laugh their way to the bank, and all this whining will be for naught.

Everyone says Mass Effect was better than ME2. Yet the numbers beg to differ. And those numbers are what matters. See BioWare is a company..with workers...who have families...and they need to...you know...make money to feed those families. So as long as the game sells, then it was a successful game. Period.

What people fail to realize, is that Dragon Age was never some "old school tactical RPG". If you had any prior RPG experience the game only presented a bit of a challenge on nightmare. Dragon Age has always been a casual game, its just become more apparent to some of our slower members recently.

First off, fine work insinuating that everyone who disagrees with you is slow. It is truly condusive to a good debate climate, and demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt your mental superiority. And you even threw in a statement indicating all of us are whiners. Hats off to you, sir!

Unfortunately, in all your bigotry, you are correct in at least one thing. Console users will be all over DA2, and by simple virtue of outnumbering PC users, they are more important to Bioware.

At this point I believe Bioware are just running damage control to try and pacify as many PC users as possible, lulling them into thinking the game will be just as good as DA: O (and we want to believe that.. we truly do). I used to think the PC market was still substantial enough to warrant games aimed exclusively at it, but time seems to be proving me wrong.

Still, I'll keep on nourishing a feeble hope I am wrong about everything and DA2 turns out to be a good PC game... I am precisely that sad and starved for *real* roleplaying games.

[Ravenfeeder]

After Mike's post I'm hopeful that a toolset plugin/update can be released. This is the ideal solution as modders can take existing projects and us the DA2 executable with any improvements that it brings.
With the top-down view I admit to some trepidation and will have to see some in-game video before I part with my money. I really hope they have not neutered this aspect, but am willing to wait and see.

Modifié par Ravenfeeder, 08 août 2010 - 12:15 .

[joriandrake]

Firky wrote...

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact, so I can give you the latest news on that front.

While we likely won't pull as far up as we did in DA:O, I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders, which is what we're tuning now. So, this means you can still maneuver the camera around the battlefield and issue orders from a remote location, just as you could in Origins.

Actually, I think no tactical view might actually be a deal breaker for me too. And that is really saying something. And that would probably be the only dealbreaker for me.

But I guess this quote is reassuring. But what are the "key elements" of the tactical experience exactly? And what does this mean? " I have always felt that the key to tactical play was actually freeing your camera from the character you're controlling to issue precise orders". Sounds interesting, but I don't get it.

For Bethesda "key element" of Fallout was  what became the targeeting system they used for Fallout 3, and that game was a horrible sequel, I say that despite supporting Bethesda until I actually played the game and realized that all the negative reactions were justified.

I hope the use of key elements doesn't mean something similar here.

[filetemo]

Dileos wrote...

I'm going to laugh my ass off when this game manages to outsell the original. The average consumer is going to eat DAII up, just like they ate up Origins. BioWare is going to laugh their way to the bank, and all this whining will be for naught.

Everyone says Mass Effect was better than ME2. Yet the numbers beg to differ. And those numbers are what matters. See BioWare is a company..with workers...who have families...and they need to...you know...make money to feed those families. So as long as the game sells, then it was a successful game. Period.

What people fail to realize, is that Dragon Age was never some "old school tactical RPG". If you had any prior RPG experience the game only presented a bit of a challenge on nightmare. Dragon Age has always been a casual game, its just become more apparent to some of our slower members recently.

if your company has been manufacturing rims and tires for the performance market and nowadays it sells flashy chromed useless rims to appeal the tuner crowd, don't you think racing drivers should complain the hell out and try to change things before moving to the next manufacturer?

I thought so.


I'm gonna play DA2 but I will not buy it.

Modifié par filetemo, 08 août 2010 - 11:51 .