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I pissed Miranda off.. LOL


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#76
swn32

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There's also the time lag, whereas Warp is instant. 

And the damage is much superior in comparison. Also its the best defense stripping power in the game.

Are you playing on casual difficulty? Cause on Insanity/Hardcore, Grunt is no where near immortal Tali is only as useful as her combat droneSamara has better crowd control? Pull and throw are useless on higher difficulties.Morinth's dominate is much less useful at higher difficultiesZaeed, Thane, Legion have better weapons, but that's it.
You seem to rely a lot on your teammates doing damage for you. Which is great...on casual difficulty. 
You do realize that your teammates do 65% of the damage your Shepherd does right?


In casual mode, every team mate is immortal. In Insanity, Grunt never dies. If you have your grunt dying, it only shows that you have no clue how to give squad orders. What about Tali's AI hacking and Energy drain, both are better than overload against Geth, and did I mention she uses GPS? Samara's crowd control are after you strip defense. In One Adrenaline rush i can strip defenses of 3-4 guys and have Samara execute them for me. And Morinths dominate less usefull on harder difficulties? Its useless on casual, only on harder difficulties does it provide the necessary distraction that makes it useful. Zaeed better than Miranda for synthetics, Thane better for barriers (because a warp followed by a sniper shot is generally fatal), Legion has widow (have you even used that weapon?). I do realize teammates do lot less damage than shepard, still its much higher than what you would get by spamming warp or overload.

Miranda is only good if you dont know what u are going to face and just have to make a choice. Otherwise she is an inferior squad mate to someone else in comparison for a given situation.

Are you kidding me?


No, i'm not kidding you. You have no clue how damage system works in this game. Everything is additive except weapons default multipliers. So the 15% you are talking about is actually a bonus over around 400+% of existing bonuses. Its negligibly small.


I didn't even read this, cause its such a clumsy way to mathematically prove your point. I'll tell you right now how valuable 15% is to a Widow Soldier/Infiltrator - 368.3 Base Damage x 0.15 = 55 extra damage. If you have an ammo power, say Warp ammo, then that 55 extra damage from Miranda becomes 82.9 because ammo bonuses are multiplicative (as opposed to additive, like damage upgrades). 


Again you have no clue how damage works in this game. Its not multiplicative, its additive. So I already have +470% damage upgrade, which is around +1731 extra damage over the base 368.3. Whats 55 damage points to me? Nothing. This is also excluding the 1.5 multiplier against armor.


Therefore, having Miranda around is like an extra Viper Sniper rifle shot in your Widow (Viper base damage 81.9) every time you shoot a Widow + Warp ammo. I don't know how damage is calculated when people get shot in the head, but if they are multiplicative like ammo powers then that just makes Miranda more effective. I actually do think shooting someone in the head multiplies your damage by 2 (thus, multiplicative) but this already looks terrible on you, so I'll stop. 


You keep thinking, and remain deluded. Whereas its common knowledge in the strategy boards that all damage is additive (percentages are calculated upon base damage and added). Also a beefed up Viper shot for a soldier does, more than 81.9 damage if you can do your math. So I have a weapon that does more than 1/5th the damage out of a cain per shot, having miranda makes sure i add one extra unmodified viper shot to that. Talk about insignificance.

Actually, I forgot about the 50% should be multiplicative too. It all depends on how the initial headshot bonus is calculated - I think multiplies your overall damage by 2, with the 50% stacking on top of that initial headshot bonus (so by a factor of 2.5 after the upgrade). 


Stop saying damage upgrades are multiplicative and get a clue.

Unfortunately, nobody is sure what the initial damage bonus is. But I think I already proved my point, that swn32 doesn't really know what he's talking about and likely plays on Normal difficulty where enemies have zero defenses.

No you proved your point regarding how little you know about the damage system in this game.

And I like how you keep saying I play on Normal difficulties, meh. You obviously failed to use other squadmates efficiently on harder modes. Keeping them in a another room doesn't work as well FYI. I mean is this really the way you argue? Accusing someone else of playing on lower difficulties? You didnt even know till today that damage bonuses were additive. What more can I say.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 04:59 .


#77
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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swn32 wrote...

lots of fail


Whatever dude. I'm not getting into this pedantic argument with you when the only thing you have backing you up are anecdotal statements "proving" Miranda's "inferiority" as a squad mate in combat. 

I mean, look at your list of squaddies that are better than Miranda. Laughable

#78
swn32

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You argue? You didn't even get your facts right. I think i don't need to prove anything to you. Good you gave up, you are incapable of arguing cause you dunno jack****.

And about your inability to use squaddies efficiently, all i can say is that you consider ME2 as a solo game and depend on squad mates only for their powers. Play some tactical squad based shooters (I wont say ME2 is on the lines of GRAW PC), but it definitely helps.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 05:34 .


#79
swn32

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tonnactus wrote...

minormiracle wrote...

Miranda is hands down the most useful squad member, since her powers are optomized against everything.


She is a jack of all trades.That doesnt make her the best in anything.Garrus is better for stripping shields because he had a power damage bonus in his class talent.Mordin is better for stripping armor. Samara is better for stripping barriers,because reave has an area version.And she could use better weapons anyway.

The only thing that speaks for miranda is the fact she is a walking weapon damage upgrade(isnt noticable on insanity anyways).But thats it.

She is completly overrated as an squadmember.


This post is spot on. I guess I'm not the only one in this thread who uses the best squad mate for the job instead of using a weaker allround squaddie.

#80
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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swn32 wrote...

You argue? You didn't even get your facts right. I think i don't need to prove anything to you. Good you gave up, you are incapable of arguing cause you dunno jack****.

And about your inability to use squaddies efficiently, all i can say is that you consider ME2 as a solo game and depend on squad mates only for their powers. Play some tactical squad based shooters (I wont say ME2 is on the lines of GRAW PC), but it definitely helps.


I think Mass Effect 2 on casual difficulty is calling you. Play some Operation Flashpoint (the original) while you're at it. Or Armed Assault. Then maybe you'll actually know what you're talking about.

Or at least give the appearance of knowing what you're talking about. Thinking and strategy isn't for everybody. Hence the casual difficulty on ME2, I suppose.  

#81
Shadow_broker

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swn32 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

minormiracle wrote...

Miranda is hands down the most useful squad member, since her powers are optomized against everything.


She is a jack of all trades.That doesnt make her the best in anything.Garrus is better for stripping shields because he had a power damage bonus in his class talent.Mordin is better for stripping armor. Samara is better for stripping barriers,because reave has an area version.And she could use better weapons anyway.

The only thing that speaks for miranda is the fact she is a walking weapon damage upgrade(isnt noticable on insanity anyways).But thats it.

She is completly overrated as an squadmember.


This post is spot on. I guess I'm not the only one in this thread who uses the best squad mate for the job instead of using a weaker allround squaddie.


Your an idiot, Miranda IS arguably the best squadmate easy, The passive bonus is useful due on insanity squaddies are almost usless and this is the only power that diectly upgrades shepard

best 4 squaddies ingame are Miranda legion grunt and samara but just cause you don't like her as a character (i've seen both of you hate on her before) dosen't make her any less valuable gameplay wise, stop being a fanboy

#82
swn32

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Right you talk about thinking and strategy, when you use Miranda for her insignificant buff and only her powers. But its nice that you at least know the names of some of the tactical shooters out there. I mean you manage to get Grunt killed off in combat. Krogan Vitality 2/2 + Krogan Pureblood + Fortification, he is pure immortal. No wonder you have difficulties with other squad mates, u cant just place them in a different room and spam their powers. Also go on with your "you play only on casual" argument, its hilarious. Hell i completed the game in 9 hours on Insanity.

#83
swn32

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Shadow_broker wrote...

swn32 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

minormiracle wrote...

Miranda is hands down the most useful squad member, since her powers are optomized against everything.


She is a jack of all trades.That doesnt make her the best in anything.Garrus is better for stripping shields because he had a power damage bonus in his class talent.Mordin is better for stripping armor. Samara is better for stripping barriers,because reave has an area version.And she could use better weapons anyway.

The only thing that speaks for miranda is the fact she is a walking weapon damage upgrade(isnt noticable on insanity anyways).But thats it.

She is completly overrated as an squadmember.


This post is spot on. I guess I'm not the only one in this thread who uses the best squad mate for the job instead of using a weaker allround squaddie.


Your an idiot, Miranda IS arguably the best squadmate easy, The passive bonus is useful due on insanity squaddies are almost usless and this is the only power that diectly upgrades shepard

best 4 squaddies ingame are Miranda legion grunt and samara but just cause you don't like her as a character (i've seen both of you hate on her before) dosen't make her any less valuable gameplay wise, stop being a fanboy


I like every character other than Miranda, and that makes me a fanboy. If you say so.

#84
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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Shadow_broker wrote...

Your an idiot, Miranda IS arguably the best squadmate easy, The passive bonus is useful due on insanity squaddies are almost usless and this is the only power that diectly upgrades shepard

best 4 squaddies ingame are Miranda legion grunt and samara but just cause you don't like her as a character (i've seen both of you hate on her before) dosen't make her any less valuable gameplay wise, stop being a fanboy

Dude, ignore him. Be logical - he's probably been a troll and an idiot his entire life. He's practically a professional. Don't sink to his level to fight his fight, he'll surely beat you at being an idiot and a troll.

He'll start seeking attention somewhere else soon enough.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 11 août 2010 - 06:07 .


#85
swn32

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Being a troll you say, and you are the one who started with the insults and name calling when you couldn't back your arguments with facts. People on the strategy forums are much more intelligent. All i see in this topic are clueless fanboys.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 06:11 .


#86
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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Actually, I never started with the name calling. I merely questioned your familiarity with the game - I still do, cause I really think we're playing a different game here.



You're the one who started with the name-calling on the first post of this page.

#87
swn32

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I just said you were clueless, which is indeed true since you thought damage bonuses were multiplicative. I didn't call you an idiot or a retard for that.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 06:21 .


#88
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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swn32 wrote...

I think i don't need to prove anything to you. Good you gave up, you are incapable of arguing cause you dunno jack****.

And about your inability to use squaddies efficiently, all i can say is that you consider ME2 as a solo game and depend on squad mates only for their powers. Play some tactical squad based shooters (I wont say ME2 is on the lines of GRAW PC), but it definitely helps.


Most people would find that that is the first overtly offensive post of this thread. Personally, I don't care. On the other hand, I'm actually kinda glad you brought up tactical squad shooters, because that genre is awesome. 

I also wasn't the first person to call you an idiot. Mob mentality, what can I say?

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 11 août 2010 - 06:51 .


#89
swn32

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V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

swn32 wrote...

lots of fail


Whatever dude. I'm not getting into this pedantic argument with you when the only thing you have backing you up are anecdotal statements "proving" Miranda's "inferiority" as a squad mate in combat. 

I mean, look at your list of squaddies that are better than Miranda. Laughable


How about this arrogant fanboyish post that does little to address any of my points. Why should I bother arguing with someone who comes up with such a reply? I like how u completely ignore your offensive posts.

So you and Shadow Broker make a mob, interesting.

Why do i even bother posting useful information in this forum. This board is for fanboys who go all up in arms when u claim that their favorite character is indeed just average. I still don't get it how Miranda is better than Kasumi because of a little delay and ignoring the 2.75 times damage that it does at an almost equal cooldown.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 07:14 .


#90
PsyrenY

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If the worst thing that can be said about Miranda is that "she isn't the best" - doesn't that prove the initial statement ("pretty crappy on the battlefield") to be wrong?

#91
swn32

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Optimystic_X wrote...

If the worst thing that can be said about Miranda is that "she isn't the best" - doesn't that prove the initial statement ("pretty crappy on the battlefield") to be wrong?


The point that there is always a better team selection that doesn't include Miranda for the post Horizon missions makes her a bit redundant. She may not be crappy as the OP says, but there is always someone better for a particular level. Im not saying that other squad mates are completely better than Miranda in everything (except Kasumi of course), but there exists a squad mate that is better than Miranda for any particular mission.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 07:20 .


#92
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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swn32 wrote...

Why do i even bother posting useful information in this forum.


I don't find your information useful. At all. If anyone else does, please chime in. I would like to see at least one vote for swn32's following argument:

His argument is that Kasumi's Shadow Strike, one single attack, destroys any point in bringing Miranda along in combat after Kasumi is recruited

Points in favor of Shadow Strike
- Excellent defense stripping

Points against Shadow Strike
- Huge time lag
- Shadow Strike does NOT benefit from tech/biotic power bonuses (damage/cooldown) like Miranda's Warp/Overload (the "strike" part of the power is a combat power, not tech or biotic)
- No passive buffs to Shepherd, unlike Miranda
- Can't Shadow Strike some targets. Targets that can be Shadow Struck can't be attacked if in certain parts of the map or if out of range
- Kasumi tends to die Shadow Striking, especially if there are many enemies
- If directed to cover before Shadow Strike, Kasumi will not stay in cover after completing a Shadow Strike (i.e. she "resets" Shepherd's orders)

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 11 août 2010 - 07:49 .


#93
PsyrenY

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You still can't consider Kasumi to be "completely better":

- Her abilities can have pathfinding issues (not being able to get there, missing etc.)
- Her shadow strike puts her in harms way (none of Miranda's abilities do that.)
- Kasumi can neither set up nor execute Warp Combos (Miranda can do both)
- Miranda is free, and available from Freedom's Progress till the end of the game.

These considerations exist independently of any number-crunching.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 11 août 2010 - 07:37 .


#94
swn32

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V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Why do i even bother posting useful information in this forum.


I don't find your information useful. At all. If anyone else does, please chime in. I would like to see at least one vote for swn32's following argument:


Thats why I ask myself. Why do I even bother posting useful information in this forum.

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

His argument is that Kasumi's Shadow Strike, one single attack, destroys any point in bringing Miranda along in combat after Kasumi is recruited

Points in favor of Shadow Strike
- Excellent defense stripping

Points against Shadow Strike
- Huge time lag
- Shadow Strike does NOT benefit from tech/biotic power bonuses (damage/cooldown) like Miranda's Warp/Overload
- No passive buffs to Shepherd, unlike Miranda
- Can't Shadow Strike some targets. Targets that can be Shadow Struck can't be attacked if in certain parts of the map or if out of range
- Kasumi tends to die Shadow Striking, especially if there are many enemies
- If directed to cover before Shadow Strike, Kasumi will not stay in cover after completing a Shadow Strike (i.e. she "resets" Shepherd's orders)


-Huge time lag, true. But its worth the 2.75 times damage. Also if you choose rapid shadow strike instead, and make sure that a target can be killed (by stripping defenses first and moving on to another target), you can literally spam this ability. The cooldown is barely a second.
-its true that SS doesnt benefit for damage upgrades. But 60% damage upgrade still doesnt compare to 2.75 times base damage.
-Some targets cannot be attacked, but there is usually someone in the battle field who can be, i suggest attacking those with SS and using guns on those out of reach.
-Weird, I saved her multiple times due to the regen ability of shadow striking. She dies for me when I use it on YMIR heavy mechs. Then again 1 chargeshot+quick-refire with GPS in hgt AR usually takes out their shields, and 2 widow shots for armor. For picking off single targets, i rarely have her die.
-Damned glitch, its annoying I know. Just a minor inconvenience.

You still can't consider Kasumi to be "completely better":
- Her abilities can have pathfinding issues (not being able to get there, missing etc.)
- Her shadow strike puts her in harms way (none of Miranda's abilities do that.)
- Kasumi can neither set up nor execute Warp Combos (Miranda can do both)
- Miranda is free.
These considerations exist independently of any number-crunching


I don't find too much issues with the first 2 points. It really depends on how well you choose your target. The 3 point is pretty good and I cant deny it. Warp combos are great, but being a soldier, ill have to have either Samara, Jacob or Jack in my team to use it. Jack and Jacob i find useless, where as Samara is pretty good. Still would prefer a team mate with a sniper to keep the damage flowing, hence i use Thane instead. Regarding 4th point, Miranda is a lot less effective without Locust. Also Ive stated earlier that I find Miranda useful in the starting few missions, when u barely have a choice regarding squad mates.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 08:04 .


#95
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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swn32 wrote...

-Huge time lag, true. But its worth the 2.75 times damage. Also if you choose rapid shadow strike instead, and make sure that a target can be killed (by stripping defenses first and moving on to another target), you can literally spam this ability. The cooldown is barely a second.


Well, I don't find it worth it. A lot of times, I kill the target myself because Kasumi is just taking too damn long. It's worse when the target is moving, because then she has to chase the target down somewhat.
 

swn32 wrote...

-Some targets cannot be attacked, but there is usually someone in the battle field who can be, i suggest attacking those with SS and using guns on those out of reach.


That goes against intuition - most of the time I would want to kill the closer target first. But if I order Kasumi to Shadow Strike a target closeby, the enemy would have enough time to empty an entire magazine into Shepherd before Kasumi actually lands her attack.

Warp/overload is instantaneous. If I'm Vanguard and I make a bad charge, Miranda can easily save me by Warping and Overloading enemies around me, allowing me to get away. Kasumi can't do that.  

swn32 wrote...
-Weird, I saved her multiple times due to the regen ability of shadow striking. She dies for me when I use it on YMIR heavy mechs. Then again 1 charge+quick-refire in hgt AR usually takes out their shields, and 2 widow shots for armor. For picking off single targets, i rarely have her die.


Single targets is not the issue - squad mates are most useful when there are multiple enemies pinning Shepherd down. And in that scenario, Kasumi almost throws herself into the crossfire to land her attack, thus dying in the process. 

swn32 wrote...

I don't find too much issues with the first 2 points. It really depends on how well you choose your target. The 3 point is pretty good and I cant deny it. Warp combos are great, but being a soldier, ill have to have either Samara, Jacob or Jack in my team to use it. Jack and Jacob i find useless, where as Samara is pretty good. Still would prefer a team mate with a sniper to keep the damage flowing. Regarding 4th point, Miranda is a lot less effective without Locust. Also Ive stated earlier that I find Miranda useful in the starting few missions, when u barely have a choice regarding squad mates.


Miranda is less effective with the Locust. That is a fact - the Tempest has a higher DPS and NPCs do not suffer from the same accuracy/recoil issues that the player (Shepherd) does; i.e. Miranda shoots just as good with the Tempest as she does with the Locust, thus its better to have her with the Tempest. 

#96
PsyrenY

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There's a good deal of luck involved even with proper choice of target. You are limited by Shepard's line of sight, therefore you can't always see which enemies are offscreen that can be aggroed onto Kasumi with SS, and she can eat a rocket/shotgun/flamethrower before you can react. You also don't have much control over when she misses, which can happen when an enemy leaps a barrier or climbs atop a box after you target them. I'm not saying Kasumi isn't great (because she definitely is), but neither am I going to blanket rank her above Miranda for every situation.

The fact that you get less benefit from Warp Combos than other classes doesn't make them any less useful for the three classes that CAN set them up.

Miranda is also equally effective vs. single targets (being able to strip all three defenses quickly) and multiple targets (due to Unstable Warp/Area Overload.) I would much rather have Miranda than Kasumi when facing a mob of husks/abominations/varren.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 11 août 2010 - 08:10 .


#97
swn32

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V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...


Well, I don't find it worth it. A lot of times, I kill the target myself because Kasumi is just taking too damn long. It's worse when the target is moving, because then she has to chase the target down somewhat.
 


Then we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. Rapid SS is a great power if u dont mind micromanaging

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
That goes against intuition - most of the time I would want to kill the closer target first. But if I order Kasumi to Shadow Strike a target closeby, the enemy would have enough time to empty an entire magazine into Shepherd before Kasumi actually lands her attack.

Warp/overload is instantaneous. If I'm Vanguard and I make a bad charge, Miranda can easily save me by Warping and Overloading enemies around me, allowing me to get away. Kasumi can't do that.  

The instantaneous nature of warp is definitely a +point for Miranda, however if I find an enemy too close to me, I usually go ballistic with my mattock. Poor soul doesn't stand a chance. Also SS incapacitates enemies, making them less of a threat.

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Single targets is not the issue - squad mates are most useful when there are multiple enemies pinning Shepherd down. And in that scenario, Kasumi almost throws herself into the crossfire to land her attack, thus dying in the process. 

That may be true for classes like Vanguard, Soldier shepard can easily dispatch 2-3 enemies with Adrenaline rush and Mattock. Also Ive seen Kasumi survives pretty well unless the number of clustered enemies is greater than 3.

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Miranda is less effective with the Locust. That is a fact - the Tempest has a higher DPS and NPCs do not suffer from the same accuracy/recoil issues that the player (Shepherd) does; i.e. Miranda shoots just as good with the Tempest as she does with the Locust, thus its better to have her with the Tempest. 


The DPS of both weapons are nearly the same, but the damage of each shot of Locust is nearly twice. AI burst fire count for Tempest is 4-8 and for Locust is 3-6 (these are proper figures from ini files). I for once have noticed smg wielding squadmates to be more useful with Locust.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 08:20 .


#98
V0luS_R0cKs7aR

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Optimystic_X wrote...

Miranda is also equally effective vs. single targets (being able to strip all three defenses quickly) and multiple targets (due to Unstable Warp/Area Overload.) I would much rather have Miranda than Kasumi when facing a mob of husks/abominations/varren.


Actually, Kasumi isn't bad against those enemies because she has Flashbang (which I actually use more than Shadow Strike because it's consistent).

#99
swn32

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Optimystic_X wrote...

There's a good deal of luck involved even with proper choice of target. You are limited by Shepard's line of sight, therefore you can't always see which enemies are offscreen that can be aggroed onto Kasumi with SS, and she can eat a rocket/shotgun/flamethrower before you can react. You also don't have much control over when she misses, which can happen when an enemy leaps a barrier or climbs atop a box after you target them. I'm not saying Kasumi isn't great (because she definitely is), but neither am I going to blanket rank her above Miranda for every situation.

The fact that you get less benefit from Warp Combos than other classes doesn't make them any less useful for the three classes that CAN set them up.

Miranda is also equally effective vs. single targets (being able to strip all three defenses quickly) and multiple targets (due to Unstable Warp/Area Overload.) I would much rather have Miranda than Kasumi when facing a mob of husks/abominations/varren.


Line of sight issue is even a pain with overload and warp. Sometimes it appears as if u have selected a target, just to have the power performed on the cover in front of the target. With Kasumi thats not an issue, she will just deny and save u the cooldown.

Again I totally agree with Warp Combos. I just use Samara+Thane combo for such levels (AR+Sniper goodness). Against groups of husks, i usually use a mattock team, they dont let the husks near me. Although I havent tried it out yet, but Rapid Shadow Strike should do wonders against husks (in theory). 1 second cooldown and incapacitation is a death sentence for husks. Frag Grenade too seems quite effective.

Modifié par swn32, 11 août 2010 - 08:29 .


#100
Nightwriter

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I find it funny that a passing comment the OP made caused the whole thread to be about Miranda's combat effectiveness and now apparently combat effectiveness in general.