424 réponses à ce sujet

[FedericoV]

Lyssistr wrote...

ok, it's not a Diablo clone, I expect something in the style of Demon Stone, which was party-based. It will probably still be a good game but this doesn't mean previous customers will have interest in that type of game.

Yep, I understand... personally I will be interested until the writing remains at the same level. Changes in gameplay do not affect me too much since I wasn't a great fan of DA:O's combat system all the way, but I respect your view.

PS: No, I think that something like Demon Stone would be still too much. 

Modifié par FedericoV, 09 août 2010 - 11:25 .

[Lyssistr]

slimgrin wrote...

I'm losing sleep over this. Please, Bioware, give us a toolset and isometric camera. 




http://t2.gstatic.co...FFp2HBp5v9fEdk=

Go to bed & have faith in free markets, even if DA2 is not like that, a good game in that style is bound to come.

[MDarwin]

Brockololly wrote...

So, whats the deal Game Informer?
Dragon Age 2 PC Getting A Perspective Shift?

*Snipp*
 “For budgetary  reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very  detailed and nice textures  so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view,” he said. “With an aerial view [isometric] we should  cover much more ground and so create other textures. Now, the game  mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience."

In addition to the perspective shift, Laidlaw said that Dragon Age II will not have a toolset for user mods. As you can imagine, BioWare’s forums erupted with complaints and  threats of boycotts. Laidlaw popped into the thread on his weekend with the following post:

*snip* (just Laidlaw's forum post)

That clears things up—to a point. It seems BioWare itself is still  tweaking the camera, but it won’t be the same as before. That’s  contradictory to what we were told on our visit. We’ve contacted EA and  BioWare to get further elaboration on the news, and we’ll provide updated information as soon as it’s made available.

Yeah, this story is all around the net now....

Appears to me that Laidlaw was doing some very "heavy back paddling" there! I am not convienced that there will be a ts for DA2. Than again, the 'community" done quite a bit of work for DAO, so it works/look better, for free.

Maybe that's one reason why they 'look in to it". A ts was one main reason I got DAO, so I could change/repair (no hardcoded errors), or even create my own Adventure as it was with NWN.

Well if BW wants to go the way of the "Audience", which I am not in this case, just do it.
Go for all action and h/s only. But I will give it a miss.

[Saibh]

MDarwin wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So, whats the deal Game Informer?
Dragon Age 2 PC Getting A Perspective Shift?

*Snipp*
 “For budgetary  reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very  detailed and nice textures  so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view,” he said. “With an aerial view [isometric] we should  cover much more ground and so create other textures. Now, the game  mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience."

In addition to the perspective shift, Laidlaw said that Dragon Age II will not have a toolset for user mods. As you can imagine, BioWare’s forums erupted with complaints and  threats of boycotts. Laidlaw popped into the thread on his weekend with the following post:

*snip* (just Laidlaw's forum post)

That clears things up—to a point. It seems BioWare itself is still  tweaking the camera, but it won’t be the same as before. That’s  contradictory to what we were told on our visit. We’ve contacted EA and  BioWare to get further elaboration on the news, and we’ll provide updated information as soon as it’s made available.

Yeah, this story is all around the net now....

Appears to me that Laidlaw was doing some very "heavy back paddling" there! I am not convienced that there will be a ts for DA2. Than again, the 'community" done quite a bit of work for DAO, so it works/look better, for free.

Maybe that's one reason why they 'look in to it". A ts was one main reason I got DAO, so I could change/repair (no hardcoded errors), or even create my own Adventure as it was with NWN.

Well if BW wants to go the way of the "Audience", which I am not in this case, just do it.
Go for all action and h/s only. But I will give it a miss.

The only reason he needed to back peddle was because some of the things he said were lost in translation.

[Ryngard]

He basically said you can use the CURRENT toolset for DA2 because it is the same one (minus their tweaking).



Good lord people. He came out and said that all you conspiracy nerdraging people were wrong and you still argue and hype the end of the world? Calm down and take a pill.

[Brockololly]

Ryngard wrote...

He basically said you can use the CURRENT toolset for DA2 because it is the same one (minus their tweaking).

Good lord people. He came out and said that all you conspiracy nerdraging people were wrong and you still argue and hype the end of the world? Calm down and take a pill.

I'm sorry but he said nothing of the sort- at all. The toolset as we currently have it will not work with DA2 when DA2 is released in March. Laidlaw said as much- he only mentioned that they're "looking into" maybe getting it to work at some time after DA2 is released. Just as you can't use the toolset right now with Awakening because BioWare hasn't updated it, you won't be able to use it for DA2.

And as for the tactical camera, he confirmed that it will NOT be present in DA2 as it existed in Origins. He confirmed that as it stands now, it won't be zoomed out as far as it was for Origins. And that in his estimation, its the ability to move the camera around independently thats the key feature of the iso view- he said nothing of being zoomed out far enough to actually survey the battlefield so that you actually know what you're doing. Thats hardly reassuring, IMO.

And to top it all of he said everything is currently in flux now anyway, so his vague reassurances could all be hogwash in the end- just as much as maybe everything turns out fine. I just don't understand why people are acting like Laidlaw cleared the air and debunked the article's quotes- he said absolutely nothing to deny what he so bluntly stated in the interview- he just did it in a PR friendly way that clearly placated people simply looking for a BioWare response of any kind.

[Saibh]

Brockololly wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

He basically said you can use the CURRENT toolset for DA2 because it is the same one (minus their tweaking).

Good lord people. He came out and said that all you conspiracy nerdraging people were wrong and you still argue and hype the end of the world? Calm down and take a pill.

I'm sorry but he said nothing of the sort- at all. The toolset as we currently have it will not work with DA2 when DA2 is released in March. Laidlaw said as much- he only mentioned that they're "looking into" maybe getting it to work at some time after DA2 is released. Just as you can't use the toolset right now with Awakening because BioWare hasn't updated it, you won't be able to use it for DA2.

And as for the tactical camera, he confirmed that it will NOT be present in DA2 as it existed in Origins. He confirmed that as it stands now, it won't be zoomed out as far as it was for Origins. And that in his estimation, its the ability to move the camera around independently thats the key feature of the iso view- he said nothing of being zoomed out far enough to actually survey the battlefield so that you actually know what you're doing. Thats hardly reassuring, IMO.

And to top it all of he said everything is currently in flux now anyway, so his vague reassurances could all be hogwash in the end- just as much as maybe everything turns out fine. I just don't understand why people are acting like Laidlaw cleared the air and debunked the article's quotes- he said absolutely nothing to deny what he so bluntly stated in the interview- he just did it in a PR friendly way that clearly placated people simply looking for a BioWare response of any kind.

Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.

I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".

As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague.

[jonluke93]

I play on PS3 so no big loss for me but there were some interesting mods on Youtube so that sucks.

[mr_nameless]

What??? it is NOT far too early, IT IS pricelessly the time to be complaining!!!

Everything points to a consoled Action ""RPG"" (what constitute an RPG the last 5 years has been butchered in my opinion).

Dare I say will this be the spiritual successor of Baldur's Gate II? ROFL. Marketing BS.

[taine]

Saibh wrote...

Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.

I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".

As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague.

The glass is just twice as big as it needs to be.

Also, don't you think it would be good to wait for an official announcement about features rather than adopting a sky-is-falling approach to everything?

[Saibh]

taine wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.

I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".

As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague.

The glass is just twice as big as it needs to be.

Also, don't you think it would be good to wait for an official announcement about features rather than adopting a sky-is-falling approach to everything?

Have you seen David Gaider's status on his profile? It took me awhile to figure he was talking about us.

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...

Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.

I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".

As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague.

I'd argue it's not a matter of half-full or half-empty. He said, if at all, a toolset patch will be out after game release.

My experience in life so far is that whenever there was an oral agreement, not in contract's terms, it was almost always never honored. My experience with any type of any type of transaction is similar, including games, even some Bio games.

Promises that aren't on a piece of paper almost never fulfill, it may be easy to patch the toolkit but this doesn't mean they'll do it. They may do that, but if so, I'll take it as an act of good will.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories that see DLC competing with user mods, I don't believe that, I'm just saying if DA2 doesn't ship with a toolset, I see no reason for them to release a toolset patch. They may do but it will be one of the very rare cases where oral agreements are honored.  

[Lyssistr]

slimgrin wrote...

Having full party control without iso view will be awfully hard. I would like to see the alternative.

play kotor & demon stone, an intelligent guess would be that they'll use a system similar to one of these two games.

[taine]

Saibh wrote...

Have you seen David Gaider's status on his profile? It took me awhile to figure he was talking about us.

Hah, I hadn't until now, but it *is* quite appropriate.

Ultimately it's just a game, and one about which virtually nothing has been officially announced. Nothing will ever please everyone, but it seems a bit... well... insane the way some people react to a possible change in camera perspective or the lack of an editor.

[Saibh]

Lyssistr wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.

I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".

As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague.

I'd argue it's not a matter of half-full or half-empty. He said, if at all, a toolset patch will be out after game release.

My experience in life so far is that whenever there was an oral agreement, not in contract's terms, it was almost always never honored. My experience with any type of any type of transaction is similar, including games, even some Bio games.

Promises that aren't on a piece of paper almost never fulfill, it may be easy to patch the toolkit but this doesn't mean they'll do it. They may do that, but if so, I'll take it as an act of good will.

I'm not talking about conspiracy theories that see DLC competing with user mods, I don't believe that, I'm just saying if DA2 doesn't ship with a toolset, I see no reason for them to release a toolset patch. They may do but it will be one of the very rare cases where oral agreements are honored.  

I have yet to see any real mods that deal with level design or story-telling. There's the Ser Gilmore mod, as I recall. The DLC front isn't threatened at all. The only things people really seem to do with mods is change what is or isn't allowed, add hair, armor, colors, weapons, and the like, and the little extra things like flirtpacks.

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...

I have yet to see any real mods that deal with level design or story-telling. There's the Ser Gilmore mod, as I recall. The DLC front isn't threatened at all. The only things people really seem to do with mods is change what is or isn't allowed, add hair, armor, colors, weapons, and the like, and the little extra things like flirtpacks.

I said, I don't believe DLC competes with mods, these are conspiracy theories. That being said, I don't see why they'd release a patch for DAOs toolset either, if a new toolset is not shipped with game DVD. I'm not saying there is 0% chance for them to do it, just saying I wouldn't do it if I were in their shoes.

Modifié par Lyssistr, 10 août 2010 - 03:54 .

[taine]

Saibh wrote...

I have yet to see any real mods that deal with level design or story-telling. There's the Ser Gilmore mod, as I recall. The DLC front isn't threatened at all. The only things people really seem to do with mods is change what is or isn't allowed, add hair, armor, colors, weapons, and the like, and the little extra things like flirtpacks.

Unlike the NWN toolset, the DA one is complex enough to discourage someone who just wants to tell a story from picking it up and making a quick mod. From playing around with it a bit, it feels like creating something serious (8-10 hour story based adventure) with the DA toolset would take upwards of a year. Even for NWN, most really good mods didn't start appearing until quite a while after its release.

Modifié par taine, 10 août 2010 - 03:53 .

[Ayleus]

Saibh wrote:

"Well, you have a glass is half empty approach.



I see the glass half full--the engines are close enough in DAO and DA2 that they don't need to make a new toolset. Instead, they're looking at ways to patch it so it works with DA2. If they said "we're looking at ways to make a new toolset", you'd take that as a good sign, right? They're doing the same thing, only they don't need to make a new one. It's definitely not the same as "there will be no toolset".



As for the camera controls...eh, it was vague."



My response:



I risk starting a small war here, but I must say it.... Saibh, I've read your posts throughout this thread and I must say that your fanboy(or girl)ism is imho shameful. Even with all this information stacking and basically telling you it's black....you still want to stand behind your glass half full (it's more empty now than ever before btw) mentality and call it white (oh, it was mistranslation....bioware wouldn't dare do this DA2...they are too awesome *cough* ME2 *cough*). When you end up buying this game because of your do-no-wrong-bioware attitude, you contribute to their demise as a cRPG industry leader. It is just that simple.



However, if you really don't mind what is happening to this game (ME1 -> ME2 streamlining...even worse actually), then by all means have fun...enjoy it. And I will congratulate you for getting a product you are satisfied with. I, on the other hand, got excited by the "going back to roots" crusade that bioware has now more than likely abandoned in order to appeal to the mainstream console players (heck, just wait for the next bit of news for this game.......in fact, I'm not sure I want to hear anymore).



Dare I mention the word "consolitis" *dum* *dum* *dum*..... I can see the bioware moderator security force surging up to close down this thread now

[MDarwin]

Ryngard wrote...

He basically said you can use the CURRENT toolset for DA2 because it is the same one (minus their tweaking).

Good lord people. He came out and said that all you conspiracy nerdraging people were wrong and you still argue and hype the end of the world? Calm down and take a pill.

I dont need a pill. At this stage, the ts is not compatable with DAO2.
We shall see what sort of ts there will be for DAO2, if any.
 Nerdraging, nice word.

*Damn Typo's*

Modifié par MDarwin, 10 août 2010 - 04:07 .

[Saibh]

Ayleus wrote...

I risk starting a small war here, but I must say it.... Saibh, I've read your posts throughout this thread and I must say that your fanboy(or girl)ism is imho shameful. Even with all this information stacking and basically telling you it's black....you still want to stand behind your glass half full (it's more empty now than ever before btw) mentality and call it white (oh, it was mistranslation....bioware wouldn't dare do this DA2...they are too awesome *cough* ME2 *cough*). When you end up buying this game because of your do-no-wrong-bioware attitude, you contribute to their demise as a cRPG industry leader. It is just that simple.

Coming from the conniving thief? 

That's funny.

Modifié par Saibh, 10 août 2010 - 04:10 .

[Riona45]

Ayleus wrote...

I risk starting a small war here, but I must say it...

That doesn't sound the least bit insincere.

[MDarwin]

Brockololly wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

He basically said you can use the CURRENT toolset for DA2 because it is the same one (minus their tweaking).

Good lord people. He came out and said that all you conspiracy nerdraging people were wrong and you still argue and hype the end of the world? Calm down and take a pill.

I'm sorry but he said nothing of the sort- at all. The toolset as we currently have it will not work with DA2 when DA2 is released in March. Laidlaw said as much- he only mentioned that they're "looking into" maybe getting it to work at some time after DA2 is released. Just as you can't use the toolset right now with Awakening because BioWare hasn't updated it, you won't be able to use it for DA2.

And as for the tactical camera, he confirmed that it will NOT be present in DA2 as it existed in Origins. He confirmed that as it stands now, it won't be zoomed out as far as it was for Origins. And that in his estimation, its the ability to move the camera around independently thats the key feature of the iso view- he said nothing of being zoomed out far enough to actually survey the battlefield so that you actually know what you're doing. Thats hardly reassuring, IMO.

And to top it all of he said everything is currently in flux now anyway, so his vague reassurances could all be hogwash in the end- just as much as maybe everything turns out fine. I just don't understand why people are acting like Laidlaw cleared the air and debunked the article's quotes- he said absolutely nothing to deny what he so bluntly stated in the interview- he just did it in a PR friendly way that clearly placated people simply looking for a BioWare response of any kind.

That was what I meant, by my issue with the ts. Back paddling never looks good in front of your customers, I done that. After that, they "acted" diffrent towards me.

[TheMadCat]

I doubt we'll see a tool set. I search for a legit reason why EA would give the green light and lay down the necessary cash but ultimately I can't find one. The modding community is small, the tools are overly complex, the game isn't really built well for mods. The point of releasing a tool set from a business standpoint is to bring is extra sales and extend the life of the game; mod development is going to be slow due to the complexity and with 2 right around the corner I'm not sure if the community is going to get a chance to grow. Couple that with the complete absence of support for the current tool set and I just can't connect any dots that shows it likely to come about.