424 réponses à ce sujet

[andar91]

I think that we'll at least be able to move the camera independently of our characters. Mike was explaining how the view won't go out as far as the scrolled out view of Origins, but that he feels the key to tactical gameplay is being able to move the camera around (I'm paraphrasing here). In my opinion, this will be fine. Even though the method is different, the end result seems to be pretty much the same: you can examine the battle field with a camera that is not strictly tied to your character. And isn't that really the point of the view in the first place?



As for the toolset, it really depends on if they update it, I guess. Maybe they'll update it after the release of the game sometime.

[Apollo Starflare]

slimgrin wrote...

Laidlaw seemed to confirm that the original toolset will be compatible with DA2 and possibly updated.

He was less clear on a tactical view option. To me, this is the tactical viewpoint. If their not doing this, let's hope they have miraculously reinvented the wheel and come up with something better.



 

Edit: And might I say, looking at that pic reminds me that the hud in DA:O was a perfect balance of form and function. I can only hope they repeat this feat as well.

Gah looking at that picture just reminds me how badly I need to upgrade my PC. I think DAO is the only game I would happily buy on two systems just so I could play it 'as it was meant to be played'! I agree about the UI as well, the console one could use the odd tweak but that looks nigh perfect.

[StingingVelvet]

I'm not big into mods but losing the tactical view... and just losing a PC focused game to consoles in general... would be a sad thing.



I hope this is not the case.

[syllogi]

slimgrin wrote...

Laidlaw seemed to confirm that the original toolset will be compatible with DA2 and possibly updated.

While optimism is nice, his words did not give me the impression that "possibly" means anything:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

First off, let's talk about the toolset issue. Obviously in this community there's going to be some concern that we wouldn't release a toolset, so let me clear the air a little: The tools we're using to make Dragon Age 2 are very, very close to the tools you guys have used to make your mods for DA:O. They're not identical, as we've made a few in-house improvements, but they're almost identical. As such, there isn't a new toolset to release, per se.

While we won't be releasing a toolset update in tandem with Dragon Age 2, we ARE investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours, along with providing DA2 content in the future.

So the current toolset that consumers have will not be compatible with DA2.  And "investigating what it would take to update the community toolset to match ours" does not mean that they're even contemplating releasing the toolset update to the public.  They're just looking at how they would do it, at the moment.

The original toolset was not released at the same time as the game, but that was okay, because they assured us that it would come out eventually, and it did.  This is a completely different situation, and people are right to worry that the update may never reach the public.

[In Exile]

As of right now, the only think we can confirm is that DAO will not have a camera with an angle as high as in DA (which can mean anything) but that it will still be free-roaming.

[Brockololly]

slimgrin wrote...

Laidlaw seemed to confirm that the original toolset will be compatible with DA2 and possibly updated.

Mmmm... not really. All Laidlaw said was that it won't be updated for DA2's release and that maybe they'll get around to it after DA2 is released. GIven the lack of updates to it thus far, I'm not exactly brimmingwith confidence it won't simply be forgotten. I'd love to be wrong though.

slimgrin wrote...
He was less clear on a tactical view option. To me, this is the tactical viewpoint. If their not doing this, let's hope they have miraculously reinvented the wheel and come up with something better.

I don't understand why they're messing with the tactical BG style view in the first place. Zooming it in closer is the wrong move- if anything it should be going further out. The key isn't just being able to move the camera independently, its being able to see the battlefield in full- unless they're gimping the enemy count for the PC version now and dumbing down the friendly fire and such on spells, I don't understand why they'd want to move the camera in closer.

The excuse that its a budgetary reason regarding "textures" doesn't sit well with me. If thats the case, it just goes to show that they don't want to put the effort into retaining a key feature of the PC version as the PC platform just isn't their market anymore.

[akcorr]

I'm just curious as to why they want to change so much considering how successful DA:Origins is. I thought it did well sales wise. Am I wrong?

[Senzen Sumnor]

To above poster, by my estimation 75%, possibly 80%, of the sales were on consoles, so that is where the focus will be. What it doesn't explain is why they are gimping the PC version, resources maybe an issue?

[Ensgnblack]

This rumor of losing features was debunked by BW itself. They said they think the toolset will be compatible and won't need to release a new one, and that the iso view is in for the pc allowing you to issue orders from across the battlefield. This thread serves no purpose.

[lirapara]

About toolset, i think it's obvious - on console there is no community mods, so why bother and make editor for small PC market.



and less mods from fans, more dlc from EA will sell

[In Exile]

I don't see how we can comment, based on how vague the statement we received was (the camera will be less zoomed out - what is less?) and how it is unclear what free-roam means when related to the camera, I simply don't think we yet have grounds to critize the game.

Is this a cause for concern? Absolutely.

We simply need more information before judging what exactly it means. So posts of the PC version is ruined, or Mike confirmed DA2 is the same! are just unwarranted.

[In Exile]

slimgrin wrote...

It's not like he was crystal clear on anything he said. I've been forced to infer, like everyone else. Hence, this thread.

But the statement was way too vague to infer anything. Not as zoomed out could mean many things. DA had several camera angles between the DA isometric and over-the-shoulder. Not as zoomed out could mean a single angle down, several angles down, or effectively over-the-shoulder. Without any confirmation of that there isn't any inference we could make because there are too many possible outcomes.

Not to mention the very huge disclaimer of it is subject to change, which means we could have a game that has all combat as QTEs and technically there would be no discrepancy with what we were told. So all things considered, we absolutely can't do much more than wait and see.

Personally, I think we will lose a lot of gameplay similarity to DA, and to me, that's a blow. But it's far too soon to say.

[Bugzehat]

slimgrin wrote...

Ensgnblack wrote...

This rumor of losing features was debunked by BW itself. They said they think the toolset will be compatible and won't need to release a new one, and that the iso view is in for the pc allowing you to issue orders from across the battlefield. This thread serves no purpose.

It's not like he was crystal clear on anything he said. I've been forced to infer, like everyone else. Hence, this thread.

No-one's been forced to infer anything. There's nothing wrong with saying "we don't really know yet" (in fact it seems like the developers aren't sure yet either) and withholding judgment until more information is available.

Modifié par Bugzehat, 08 août 2010 - 03:10 .

[KSuri]

I've tried really hard to be of the "let's wait and see what the reviews for the PC are like" camp but it's getting harder to maintain that mentality.

The loss of being able to zoom to a full overhead view is a huge blow (to me) and makes me wonder how the combat is going to be compensated for it. One of the fantastic things about the PC version was really being able to examine where the enemies were and thinking about how you wanted to unleash spells and abilities. No to mention getting around in tunnels and ruins, it was so much easier to navigate with that overhead view.

It's troubling that there seems to be such a large focus on the console version and it makes me start to question what the quality is going to be like for the PC. I'm starting to wonder if the "little changes to the PC version" will also include changes to the way tactics for allies are handled or if there will even be the option for setting up tactics. Will that go by the wayside because it was unwieldy on consoles or users didn't understand how to implement them? With the console centric approach what does that mean for graphics for the PC? If DA2 is going to be basically the same on all platforms I can't imagine that as being a good thing.

Modifié par KSuri, 08 août 2010 - 03:25 .

[wicked_being]

Would the lack of updated/DA2 compatible toolset and isometric camera make DA2 a god-awful game? Is it really that big a deal?

[SoR82]

KSuri wrote...

I've tried really hard to be of the "let's wait and see what the reviews for the PC are like" camp but it's getting harder to maintain that mentality.

The loss of being able to zoom to a full overhead view is a huge blow (to me) and makes me wonder how the combat is going to be compensated for it. One of the fantastic things about the PC version was really being able to examine where the enemies were and thinking about how you wanted to unleash spells and abilities. No to mention getting around in tunnels and ruins, it was so much easier to navigate with that overhead view.

It was also one fo the major things most reviewers highlighted as a main flaw with the console version compared to the pc version. Curious they would choose to abandon yet another thing that won them most of their praise and raised most of their complaints in favour of the more complained about system.

wicked_being wrote...

Would the lack of updated/DA2
compatible toolset and isometric camera make DA2 a god-awful game? Is it
really that big a deal?

Perhaps not in itself but what off all the other changes to a version which "would not be changed". They changed thier mind about that whats next lightsabers?

Modifié par SoR82, 08 août 2010 - 03:37 .

[lirapara]

KSuri wrote...

The loss of being able to zoom to a full overhead view is a huge blow (to me) and makes me wonder how the combat is going to be compensated for it. One of the fantastic things about the PC version was really being able to examine where the enemies were and thinking about how you wanted to unleash spells and abilities. No to mention getting around in tunnels and ruins, it was so much easier to navigate with that overhead view.

hehe, i think there will be no such long tunnel's and ruins anymore. 

because what BW said about level design - we will make maps more interesting, smaller, simpler, better, wonderful. Players don't like big dungeons with crates.

 tactical view just dont needed in action game. Press button - kick, press another - punch, press another - fireball!!! Just amazing!!! Improved, innovative gameplay!!!

Players don't like reading much, so we see dialogue wheel and many others  "improvments" of game.

It's better gameplay, more interesting for our dear fans on big console market! =(

Modifié par lirapara, 08 août 2010 - 03:38 .

[BomimoDK]

I'm late, but it doesn't sound too bad. They obviously still aim to give us a tactical overview and a camera free of the single character. to me, that sounds like overhead view. if it's a bit lower, then this will just be like PS:T was compared to BG. which shounds like they're NOT consoling the PC version. If i was emperor, all Pessimism that couldn't provide accurate facts would result on shooting. this is getting tiring and aggrevating. it's a forum full of pessimistic, sensational Journalist attitudes and it keeps getting stupider and stupider.

Sorry for speaking Old School... just the best example i had. of course i read all this out of Laidlaws quote and the many other times Tactical Overview has been confirmed. Imagine panicspreaders actualy checking facts... oh the humanity...

Brockololly wrote...

The key isn't just being able to move the camera independently, its being able to see the battlefield in full- unless they're gimping the enemy count for the PC version now and dumbing down the friendly fire and such on spells, I don't understand why they'd want to move the camera in closer.

You need to understand that term before using it. One thing is that i have  to stare at it on every page because people think it's cooler than saying Simplifying and that it underlines their intellect. another thing is when people start substituting with any word they can get. the correct word is LEVIATING or REDUCING.

That is all.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 08 août 2010 - 03:53 .

[Dragonite]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

As to the subject of tactical view, I can confirm that we will not be
doing a tactical view on consoles, though we are looking into some
expanded party control that I think will make console players quite
happy.

On the PC, however, we are still working with the camera
to keep the key elements of the tactical experience there. I was
actually playtesting some new camera code when Victor found me, in fact,
so I can give you the latest news on that front.

Now I'm feeling better

Btw did you notice the level up button in character portraits in this screenshot? Is this an arrow ?

Modifié par Dragonite, 08 août 2010 - 03:45 .

[Divine Justinia V]

I don't mean to start anything, but can you stop saying "thank the consoles for this" or "thank the console players for that".



It's not at all like we've wrote a letter to EA/BioWare asking them to ruin your PC version.



/endrant+spam+ot

[BomimoDK]

VittoriaLandis wrote...

I don't mean to start anything, but can you stop saying "thank the consoles for this" or "thank the console players for that".

It's not at all like we've wrote a letter to EA/BioWare asking them to ruin your PC version.

/endrant+spam+ot

They can't help it, it's just their supperior intellect getting the better of them. I dunno. There is something about it, but not everything is due to the console market. It's a wonder that the PC version even Differs from the Console version at all. never happens anymore, except this game. yet here they are... making a fuss about it.

[Talonfire]

wicked_being wrote...

Would the lack of updated/DA2 compatible toolset and isometric camera make DA2 a god-awful game? Is it really that big a deal?

I doubt the lack of a toolset would bother me all that much, I never used it and I haven't touched very many player mods. However a large number of people would be upset by the lack of a DA2 compatible toolset.

As for the camera, I'd have to say it would greatly detract from the game yes, the top down camera is very much a fundamental part of the tactical gameplay. Have you tried playing the PC version of Dragon Age in third person? It's impractical to play a tactical RPG with a clunky ground level camera; to this day I still wish Knights of the Old Republic had a top down camera like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Dragon Age.

The camera should reflect the gameplay, for tactical or tactical party based games like Dragon Age it's better to use a top down camera. For games like The Elder Scrolls a first or third person camera works because there's nothing tactical about it, you don't have a party and you don't have to put an awful lot of thought into how to deal with combat encounters since that series has always played more like an action RPG..

Unless BioWare is dramatically changing the gameplay of Dragon Age 2 to fit a more action RPG style then ditching the top down camera would be a distinctly bad idea. In fact if I were them I'd ditch third person and focus entirely on top down. Really the only thing the ground level camera is useful for are cinematic views and I personally never got the urge to zoom in and go "Ooooo look at all of the pretty environmental textures, magic effects and spilling blood! It's so cool that I can see all of this at ground level!"

Modifié par Talonfire, 08 août 2010 - 04:02 .