424 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

Spear-Thrower wrote...

Kotor didn't have an 'isometric' camera and the combat was fine. Zooming out too far feels like a RTS game, like you're viewing the battlefield from space. It's for people who like to toss fireballs on unprepared enemies.

BG
IWD
Fallout
Arcanum
ect

[Bugzehat]

BomimoDK wrote...

I'm late, but it doesn't sound too bad. They obviously still aim to give us a tactical overview and a camera free of the single character. to me, that sounds like overhead view. if it's a bit lower, then this will just be like PS:T was compared to BG. which shounds like they're NOT consoling the PC version. If i was emperor, all Pessimism that couldn't provide accurate facts would result on shooting. this is getting tiring and aggrevating. it's a forum full of pessimistic, sensational Journalist attitudes and it keeps getting stupider and stupider.

Agreed. As I see it, the good thing about the top-down view was its use as a tactical overview. If we're still getting a tactical overview, even if it's slightly different, what's the problem? It might not work as well, but we don't know that until we actually see it. Who knows, it might even work better.

[Abriael_CG]

The original news are jarring, and Laidlaw's response seemed more like a "we'll see" instead of an actual "debunking" of the interview (the excuse a moderator hastily used to close the thread).



I will wait and see what will happen, but the removal of the tactical view and of the toolset would be the ultimate proof that Bioware lost their way and betrayed the most loyal part of their fanbase. They already lost the "king of RPGs" title, but from what I've seen so far, it seems that they have no intention to regain it.



I still have a little bit of hope to be proven wrong, but DA2 sounds more and more like a dumbed down console-centric game.



Funny, since DA:O sold a ton on PCs. It sounds like a very stupid move since mods are a major element that keep the interest ina game high through time, and keep people buying DLCs.

[Gwydion19]

This news is very disappointing to hear. The tactical combat and mods for DA:O are one of the things that keeps me coming back to the game instead of playing more ME2. This whole thing smacks of pressure from EA to put out a sequel as fast as possible. I really hope this isn't the beginning of another KOTOR:TSL fiasco.

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...

But the statement was way too vague to infer anything. Not as zoomed out could mean many things. DA had several camera angles between the DA isometric and over-the-shoulder. Not as zoomed out could mean a single angle down, several angles down, or effectively over-the-shoulder. Without any confirmation of that there isn't any inference we could make because there are too many possible outcomes.

Right- The response given was your typical PR stuff- say alot without saying anything at all and people ar ejust happy with a response. Except for the fact nothing was said at all to confirm or deny the French magazine's quotes.

In Exile wrote...
Not to mention the very huge disclaimer of it is subject to change, which means we could have a game that has all combat as QTEs and technically there would be no discrepancy with what we were told. So all things considered, we absolutely can't do much more than wait and see.

Personally, I think we will lose a lot of gameplay similarity to DA, and to me, that's a blow. But it's far too soon to say.

It seems they're still fairly early in the game's design even if its only about 7 months until release. So much is still subject to change, which could be a good thing or a bad thing. We can't really judge the quality of the final game at this point as its not done yet- Origins certainly went through many iterations before finally being released.

But its absolutely fair to express concern about the direction BioWare seems to be taking the game based on their own marketing and dev quotes in interviews, seeing as thats all we have to go off of right now. Hopefully once gameplay footage is released we'll have a better basis to judge how the actual game will play, but so long as BioWare is letting loose quotes that indicate they're designing DA2 as a console focused game, I think every PC gamer has the right to be concerned, especially since Origins was such a nice PC centric game.

Modifié par Brockololly, 08 août 2010 - 04:12 .

[Barso1]

No toolset and no isometric camera means no buy for me.

I can understand the need to appeal to the bigger console audience but it looks like the dragon age story will have ended at origins for me.

Great game and loved the iso camera, also loved the hi-def texture pack mod that was possible because of the toolset.

Seems my next bioware purchase will be old republic mmo.

[Talonfire]

Bugzehat wrote...

BomimoDK wrote...

I'm late, but it doesn't sound too bad. They obviously still aim to give us a tactical overview and a camera free of the single character. to me, that sounds like overhead view. if it's a bit lower, then this will just be like PS:T was compared to BG. which shounds like they're NOT consoling the PC version. If i was emperor, all Pessimism that couldn't provide accurate facts would result on shooting. this is getting tiring and aggrevating. it's a forum full of pessimistic, sensational Journalist attitudes and it keeps getting stupider and stupider.

Agreed. As I see it, the good thing about the top-down view was its use as a tactical overview. If we're still getting a tactical overview, even if it's slightly different, what's the problem? It might not work as well, but we don't know that until we actually see it. Who knows, it might even work better.

It would be nice if it did work better, while I found the top down better than the third person perspective in Origins even the top down camera was pretty clunky in places. Particularly how it worked in urban locations like Denerim where the high walls and buildings pushed the camera down.

Modifié par Talonfire, 08 août 2010 - 04:15 .

[MerinTB]

Abriael_CG wrote...
The original news are jarring, and Laidlaw's response seemed more like a "we'll see" instead of an actual "debunking" of the interview (the excuse a moderator hastily used to close the thread).

I will wait and see what will happen, but the removal of the tactical view and of the toolset would be the ultimate proof that Bioware lost their way and betrayed the most loyal part of their fanbase. They already lost the "king of RPGs" title, but from what I've seen so far, it seems that they have no intention to regain it.

I still have a little bit of hope to be proven wrong, but DA2 sounds more and more like a dumbed down console-centric game.

Funny, since DA:O sold a ton on PCs. It sounds like a very stupid move since mods are a major element that keep the interest ina game high through time, and keep people buying DLCs.

While I will refrain from such language as "lost their way" or "betrayed their fanbase", but I will agree on the losing "king of RPGS" - I don't think BioWare ever had that, to be fair, without Black Isle backing them on the games.  From KotOR forward they were making adveture games with story choices and some RPG elements tossed in, occasionally some shooter elements as well.  DAO was the closest thing to a cRPG that they had made in a long time, and they are possibly ditching that for the sequel as well.

I have no hope for DA2.  I'm already of the mindest of NOT treating it like the PC cRPG I want and relegating it to "yet another" BioWare adventure story game for the consoles.

Once I stop hoping, stop dreading, the changes to DA2, BioWare will have what they want - someone who buys the game anyway.
If they care about praising it, well, they will have lost one voice.

[BomimoDK]

Abriael_CG wrote...

I will wait and see what will happen, but the removal of the tactical view and of the toolset would be the ultimate proof that Bioware lost their way and betrayed the most loyal part of their fanbase. They already lost the "king of RPGs" title, but from what I've seen so far, it seems that they have no intention to regain it.
 

I imagine many Bioware employees think this is a very childish personal attack directed at their work.
What's your bas of this accusation? They got Dragon Age looking and playing just fine as an old school hardcore, dark fantasy RPG where epic **** is centered around you and you have to make certain choices to make **** work= an RPG. i don't see anything wrong there.

Or was it that they went for ONE action RPG series for consoles after countless games at a lower, more in depth pace for the (as they seem to imply themselves) intellectual PC crowd? I don't know what you guys problems are, but the stupid rating has been skyrocketting since last year. People insist on seing the devil everywhere, while i can't seem to spot many. just this subject alone is so stupidly skewered. "confirmed, cutting tactical screen and cam for DA2"... how about no?

I'm tired of these over the top reactions, idiots who don't see the full picture jumping to conclusions based looser than the proof of the positive opposite. could you please just take a break, a breath and stop panicking?

Again, what is it? the Action RPG series for consoles called Mass Effect with simplified RPG elements yet deep story... is that what lays the basis for your current attack on biowares work? go check the "what we know so far" thread and tell me. how much of that can ACTUALLY, UNDISPUTEDLY be attributed to consoles?

just a quick fact: Human as only playable race cant, framed narrative cant in case you were wondering. I can't tell you go get out because you're a majority on this forum. but i can refuse to leave myself and hope sense spreads back here when all the numbskulls get some ability to evaluate the past and construct a plausible future scenario. so far, all Bioware games have been PC, advanced and tactical. with the slight exception of ME which still stands strong. i think it comes with growing up.

Of course, this was just my "i am pissed" rant... what IS your basis for hating on their work already?

Barso1 wrote...

No toolset and no isometric camera means
no buy for me.
I can understand the need to appeal to the bigger
console audience but it looks like the dragon age story will have ended
at origins for me.
Great game and loved the iso camera, also loved
the hi-def texture pack mod that was possible because of the toolset.
Seems
my next bioware purchase will be old republic mmo.

very cool that you're able to conclude this based on nothing but vague answers and the general panic here. I'll have fun with the Iso ( or less zoomed out, but still tactical) camera in DA2 while you just hear from friends with no clue that it's missing. have fun.

I'm blunt because i'm angry. i'll go away for a few hours, see if i can cool down. There's just too little thinking and understanding going on here.

Oh, god mod... don't kill this because of me. i'm going, i'm going.

Modifié par BomimoDK, 08 août 2010 - 04:27 .

[Seagloom]

Abriael_CG wrote...

The original news are jarring, and Laidlaw's response seemed more like a "we'll see" instead of an actual "debunking" of the interview (the excuse a moderator hastily used to close the thread).

I closed that thread primarily because it had devolved into personal attacks, unconstructive rage against BioWare, and was going off topic. It was no hastily used excuse with page after page of the same aside from a brief respite where some forumites thanked Mike Laidlaw for his post. Maybe the word debuked was poorly chosen, but let's not pretend that thread was anything short of a train wreck towards the end. If you have any further concerns with my decision PM them to me. Thanks.

Modifié par Seagloom, 08 août 2010 - 04:36 .

[joriandrake]

What did just now happen?

[AlanC9]

MerinTB wrote...
While I will refrain from such language as "lost their way" or "betrayed their fanbase", but I will agree on the losing "king of RPGS" - I don't think BioWare ever had that, to be fair, without Black Isle backing them on the games.

Exactly what is it you think Black Isle was doing for them?

[wickedwizzard01]

what are we talking about here? is this about the pc or the console version?

since it is not clear to me,and the devs had said there would still be the tactical overview in DA2

unless it got scrapped now

does any one know



there wasn't a tactical view in DA:O but it still worked on console would have been nice if it had been in nDA:O

[TheMadCat]

joriandrake wrote...

What did just now happen?

The sky fell, left a nasty bump on my head. <_<


Anyways, just got a chance to read Mike's post and it reeks of political BS (Gets two thumbs up from me:D). A few of the survivors from that natural disaster were talking about feeling relieved and eating crow and I don't really see why, nothing there disproved anything from the interview, which in reality kind of supports the fact everything there had a certain level of truth to it. Mike is quick to confirm truths and squash rumors, he did neither in that post and it's purpose seemed to simply be to feed the sharks and keep them busy for a bit; lots of side stepping and lots of fall backs. To me that whole statement seemed like shark bait and if that gets me labeled as a pessimist or whiner or whichever term is popular for the moment then whatever. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm more inclined to believe the statements Mike made to the French magazine which were more definitive rather then the post full of "maybes" and "we'll see's." 

Modifié par TheMadCat, 08 août 2010 - 04:53 .

[AbounI]

Seagloom wrote...

Abriael_CG wrote...

The original news are jarring, and Laidlaw's response seemed more like a "we'll see" instead of an actual "debunking" of the interview (the excuse a moderator hastily used to close the thread).

I closed that thread primarily because it had devolved into personal attacks, unconstructive rage against BioWare, and it was going off topic. It was no hastily used excuse with page after page of the same aside from a brief respite where some forumites thanked Mike Laidlaw for his post. Maybe the word debuked was poorly chosen, but let's not pretend that thread was anything short of a train wreck towards the end. If you have any further concerns with my decision PM them to me. Thanks.

well, you made the choice to lock it, I respect it.

But for me, some questions still remain unanswered.
I was asking for getting a whole access to the whole french interview.Saying there are words and expression lost or transformed because of the translation, it's quite easy, but it does not bring any further prooves.
After all, Bioware own their rights to whatever is written about their products, words, screenshots, etc etc.So why don't they grant us for having an access to this original interview?
In fact, it seems that Mike has explanation making some contradictoryes fact:
"there's no lead platform" =/= "we're going to the larger audience".

So now, I have  the rights to make any reserves of what he can say, how he's explaining things that need to be explained, until I can see them by myself.Do you mind I don't take for granted all of Mike's words?I did not forget  the Bioware explanations that justify a non distribution in france of the DAO CE retail Pc version.Neither the word for the fail of the Bio Baazar: what did they do after that day?
Don't consider this as personnal attacks, but I'm just relating facts just as they are (or at least, I'm trying, English is not my native, sorry for the syntaxe errors)

Modifié par AbounI, 08 août 2010 - 04:56 .

[Rixxencaxx]

Well, just my opinion

If i am not wrong dao sold on pc at least 1 million copies so Mike's interview is really unfair toward the customers that bought the pc version of the game.

However, i am pretty sure that if dao sold so well on consoles (especially xbox) is because dao belongs to a genre of rpg that is not present on console market.

Tis expalins why a game with really poor graphics (an x factor for console gamers) was a huge success on that platform.

Now they are "tweaking" dao mechanics ti better fit console market. In other words this means a more action oriented game with simple mechanics.

Well, when you enter this genre, the action rpg genre you have a lot of competition on console market where action oriented games are very popular. You can find better action games on consoles like demon's souls dante's inferno and so on...

In the end i think that this "new" dao will loose pc customers as well as console customers.

Pc gamers will not buy it cause it is clearly a dumbed down pc port of the console version and console gamers will leave it on the shelf cause it will be no more an original genre of game but "one of many".

just my 2 cents.

[hexaligned]

I took his post as confirmation that the article was accurate. The dudes good at PR though, you have to give him that, most of the people freaking out seemed to be inexplictedly placated by it, which I personally found pretty damn amusing. Add to that the people in that thread hailing TW2 as the savior of CRPG's (even though it doesn't have any of the features they are deriding DA2 for not having) and that thread was comedic gold, shame it got locked.

[Wyndham711]

Really unfortunate news. But still, if the story and characters are super awesome, and the game lasts me well over 120 hours, then I actually really don't care even if they cut out a lot of replayability, ditch the toolset, character creation, isometric camera, romances, depth of character development, make us pay 60€ for the PC version, change the artstyle into cartoony, limit roleplaying, and basically only give us a port of a console game. If the game is ridiculously long and very well written, I'm ok - even if it otherwise utterly fails as a CRPG.

[wickedwizzard01]

if i would create a graph of how i feel about DA2 and hold it next to one from the stockmarket
i bet there would be very little difference
i bet no one would even know the difference 
and all this just when i was warming up to this game again....

maybe BW doesn't want us to like this game
or they are just doing a very poor job in the marketing department

Modifié par wickedwizzard01, 08 août 2010 - 05:08 .

[Wyndham711]

slimgrin wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

Really unfortunate news. But still, if the story and characters are super awesome, and the game lasts me well over 120 hours, then I actually really don't care even if they cut out a lot of replayability, ditch the toolset, character creation, isometric camera, romances, depth of character development, make us pay 60€ for the PC version, change the artstyle into cartoony, limit roleplaying, and basically only give us a port of a console game. If the game is ridiculously long and very well written, I'm ok - even if it otherwise utterly fails as a CRPG.

...

Yeah, it's extreme. But I'm really just being honest. Naturally, I'd really prefer the game to include all those great elements and still be long and well written like DA:O was, but I'm just not holding out hope for that happening anymore. Ultimately, when I boil it down, it's all about length and writing for me, other things are expendable if necessary. :/

[Brockololly]

Wyndham711 wrote...
 Ultimately, when I boil it down, it's all about length and writing for me, other things are expendable if necessary. :/

I don't have the link, but Darrah said in an interview that DA2 would definitely be shorter than Origins but longer than Awakening. So if you're hoping for 100+ hours in a single playthrough, sorry.