424 réponses à ce sujet

[Trooper Guy1]

 I'm sure they want to make it good for the consoles cause they got the most sales on the console. Why? Because the majority of the people on the PC pirated it. I wouldn't be surprised if in reality more people on the PC have it than consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware finally hit their limit with pirates and decided to cater to the consoles. However, pirates are also on the console as well, just not as many as on the PC.

[TheMadCat]

Trooper Guy1 wrote...

 I'm sure they want to make it good for the consoles cause they got the most sales on the console. Why? Because the majority of the people on the PC pirated it. I wouldn't be surprised if in reality more people on the PC have it than consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware finally hit their limit with pirates and decided to cater to the consoles. However, pirates are also on the console as well, just not as many as on the PC.

And of course you're going to absolutely blow my mind with enormous amounts of legit evidence that the majority of us on the PC pirated it. Or are we just going to go with the tried and true "Well, it's the PC everyone pirates everything on it." 

[saphirekosmos]

You know? After hearing all this incessant whining about how Bioware if failing, how they are going in the wrong direction, how they are dying as a traditional CRPG developer, how they are ruining DA, how they are nothing but money grubbing, moustache twirling villians bent on screwing over the "hardcore" and "old school" RPG players I can only think one thing: How hilarious it would be if DA2 plays more or less EXACTLY like DA:O, if it still has the deep story and all that that made the older games fun. If it ends up being better than DA:O in every way, even with some changes.



I mean it would be awesome if the game was like that in it won right, but d@^^!t I'd also love to see all the doomsayers and whiners eat crow. XD

[Bugzehat]

saphirekosmos wrote...

You know? After hearing all this incessant whining about how Bioware if failing, how they are going in the wrong direction, how they are dying as a traditional CRPG developer, how they are ruining DA, how they are nothing but money grubbing, moustache twirling villians bent on screwing over the "hardcore" and "old school" RPG players I can only think one thing: How hilarious it would be if DA2 plays more or less EXACTLY like DA:O, if it still has the deep story and all that that made the older games fun. If it ends up being better than DA:O in every way, even with some changes.

I mean it would be awesome if the game was like that in it won right, but d@^^!t I'd also love to see all the doomsayers and whiners eat crow. XD

I firmly believe this is what's going to happen.

[-Semper-]

Trooper Guy1 wrote...

 I'm sure they want to make it good for the consoles cause they got the most sales on the console. Why? Because the majority of the people on the PC pirated it. I wouldn't be surprised if in reality more people on the PC have it than consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware finally hit their limit with pirates and decided to cater to the consoles. However, pirates are also on the console as well, just not as many as on the PC.

that's by far the dumbest and easiest solution to deliver and sounds like an angry pr management. no, it's not the developer's or publisher's fault but the baaaaad pirates who destroy sales. damn, how was blizzard ever able to sell over 1 million copies the first day? the game was cracked way before the official release and still there are people buying their products. how was cd project able to sell nearly 2 million copies of the witcher in total but WITHOUT copy protection?

modern warfare 2, the best selling game, selled only 50.000 copies totally the first day at pc. perhaps they did something utterly wrong?

Modifié par -Semper-, 09 août 2010 - 08:32 .

[Ayleus]

lol.... its funny. Ppl poo poo me for expressing my opinion (rather rudely I might add). All I mean (and I've been RPG gaming solely for PC since 1989 about so I believe i know the difference well enough to voice a reliable opinion) is that Bioware sold this DA:O as a "True successor to BG series." Does it make sense to say this for the 1st game,set ppl up with this mindset, and then switch gears toward a different kind of genre like ME2 which they've ALREADY ESTABLISHED (I don't count ME1 because it was more RPG-like than ME2...no question asked). It is a bad move imho and I know I'm not alone. Search around for yourselves....don't just rely on my opinion...ppl are pissed, and for good reason. I do believe that Bioware is sacrificing it's old school self for a modern version fueled by console profit....but they didn't have to do so to the extent that is apparent now. They could have kept it much more similiar (e.g., much more continuous) from their earlier game with improvements for PC and console (I agree were needed) without going off the deep end like they did for ME2. Look ppl, it is basically customizing to the console platform and mainstream crowd....pure and simple.



You have a right to your opinions, and I have a right to mine. Please respect and respond accordingly to give credit to your arguments. I will listen, although I will tell you with my years of experience, it will be hard to convince me otherwise.



And as far as pirating....I mean I will NOT buy this game blindly. I WILL pirate this game and check it out BEFORE i invest. I wouldn't want to give Bioware the wrong impression that I approve when I don't...if the case may be. That would be no good for anyone since it is based off misinformation.



I pirate, but that is becaues you can't return PC games anymore. You can say or think what you want, but as long as i honestly pay for products I really believe are worth supporting....your arguments against pirating mean nothing. I am honorable....and I ask bioware to do the same for us old school PC RPGer's who they targeted in the first place....i didn't seek them out concerning this franchise.

[Xoanon69]

It's absolutely entitlement. It's not about graphical capabilities, or even so much about the interface for the game they want to design being accomodated to the PC.

PC gamers aren't arrogant, they're gullible.

If you want to blame someone then blame Bioware. They are the ones who for years have been stringing people along with the promise that DA would be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and the PC RPG's of old, and yet after the release of only the first game in the franchise they do a complete U-turn and make it abundantly clear that the series is now being developed for the consoles.

I'm not terribly surprisd myself.  The writing was on the wall even before the first game came out when they gave PC gamers the finger by announcing that even though the game was finished they were going to delay the release for months whilst they worked on a console version.

[AllThatJazz]

 Crikey. There is a bit of hyperbole happening here, no? I see terms such as 'hatred', 'corruption of noble souls', 'selling of souls', 'betrayal'. It sounds more like a royal assassination in the 16th century than the production of a computer game in 2010. Disappointment and frustration I can understand (though not, in this case, share), but I think a sense of perspective is needed.
And threatening to pirate a game is just unacceptable. Ultimately it just reinforces the problem of developers apparently not catering for the PC market as much, it certainly doesn't solve the issue. If you want to see console exclusive titles from most major game devs in the future however, then pirating on PC is the right way to go about it. 

[Ayleus]

oh, I bought CE of DA:O and bought all DLC's so far....just so you're informed. I've supported Bioware thus far.

[Ayleus]

saphirekosmos



"You know? After hearing all this incessant whining about how Bioware if failing, how they are going in the wrong direction, how they are dying as a traditional CRPG developer, how they are ruining DA, how they are nothing but money grubbing, moustache twirling villians bent on screwing over the "hardcore" and "old school" RPG players I can only think one thing: How hilarious it would be if DA2 plays more or less EXACTLY like DA:O, if it still has the deep story and all that that made the older games fun. If it ends up being better than DA:O in every way, even with some changes.







I mean it would be awesome if the game was like that in it won right, but d@^^!t I'd also love to see all the doomsayers and whiners eat crow. XD"\\





My response:

I will gladly eat crow on this if I am wrong. I LOVE DA:O for what it was attempting to do and wanted to support it fully so eating crow is the least I could do to have them carry on like they should. I've poured my money in so far for all DLC and even the damn books (yes, i read the 2 to get "into the feel of the game") so i believe I've earned my right to voice. This is U.S.A. after all. Please be kind. If you think I'm wacko (not talking to anyone in particular) just state your position kindly and calmly. I'm sure the OP and bioware staff would appreciate it as I would.

[Anarya]

AllThatJazz wrote...

 Crikey. There is a bit of hyperbole happening here, no? I see terms such as 'hatred', 'corruption of noble souls', 'selling of souls', 'betrayal'. It sounds more like a royal assassination in the 16th century than the production of a computer game in 2010. Disappointment and frustration I can understand (though not, in this case, share), but I think a sense of perspective is needed.
And threatening to pirate a game is just unacceptable. Ultimately it just reinforces the problem of developers apparently not catering for the PC market as much, it certainly doesn't solve the issue. If you want to see console exclusive titles from most major game devs in the future however, then pirating on PC is the right way to go about it. 

Well said. 

[-Semper-]

AllThatJazz wrote...

If you want to see console exclusive titles from most major game devs in the future

there won't be many more single console exclusives in the future. the big publisher are aiming for billions and so they absolutely can not afford to left out one of the 3 big gaming markets. if they develope for the 360 they can easily (and in a cheap way) port their game to pc, that's what's happening all the time out there

[wwwwowwww]

Xoanon69 wrote...

It's absolutely entitlement. It's not about graphical capabilities, or even so much about the interface for the game they want to design being accomodated to the PC.

PC gamers aren't arrogant, they're gullible.

If you want to blame someone then blame Bioware. They are the ones who for years have been stringing people along with the promise that DA would be the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and the PC RPG's of old, and yet after the release of only the first game in the franchise they do a complete U-turn and make it abundantly clear that the series is now being developed for the consoles.

I'm not terribly surprisd myself.  The writing was on the wall even before the first game came out when they gave PC gamers the finger by announcing that even though the game was finished they were going to delay the release for months whilst they worked on a console version.

Spiritual successor does not mean duplicate of. It means in the spirit of, as in great story, in depth characters a game you can attach yourself too. Pretty sure they captured that spirit with DA:O

[-Semper-]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Spiritual successor does not mean duplicate of. It means in the spirit of, as in great story, in depth characters a game you can attach yourself too. Pretty sure they captured that spirit with DA:O

this was done in stacraft2. better don't left out paused gameplay, tactical fights, dialogue options to choose from and group based rpg

[AllThatJazz]

-Semper- wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

If you want to see console exclusive titles from most major game devs in the future

there won't be many more single console exclusives in the future. the big publisher are aiming for billions and so they absolutely can not afford to left out one of the 3 big gaming markets. if they develope for the 360 they can easily (and in a cheap way) port their game to pc, that's what's happening all the time out there

Fair enough, but how about games actually developed for PC and not just ported? Surely piracy has an effect on whether devs bother to do this?

[wwwwowwww]

-Semper- wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote...

Spiritual successor does not mean duplicate of. It means in the spirit of, as in great story, in depth characters a game you can attach yourself too. Pretty sure they captured that spirit with DA:O

this was done in stacraft2. better don't left out paused gameplay, tactical fights, dialogue options to choose from and group based rpg

Sorry, but not sure what your trying to say here, but I'll smile and wink anyways

[Ayleus]

wwwwowwww wrote:



"Spiritual successor does not mean duplicate of. It means in the spirit of, as in great story, in depth characters a game you can attach yourself too. Pretty sure they captured that spirit with DA:O "



My response:



lol....who said anything about duplicate. If you want "great story" and "in depth characters you can attach yourself too" then go play ANY GAME. All genres have good games that let you experience these things. What makes a great rpg is customizable options for your pc. End of Story. It really is just that simple. The more you let players customize their characters and with that... influence the game world through "ripples" from important decisions made through such characters....those are elements of an RPG. And yes, inventory, loot for kills, exp. for kills falls into this category. I beginning to be more and more convinced that the genre of RPG is confused and lossing definition in today's gaming society. I've read may threads and most ppl just don't seem to know which gives leverage to bioware for abandoning RPG core elements. Look, you want to understand the RPG elements....look at KOTOR 2. I know it isn't the most "pleasing-to-the-eye" game...but the language and contextual content is intelligent and forces you to think and remember through the game. Anyone who has played this via PC platform will know what i mean. I do not mean to imply this game embodies all that is RPG.....but it helps understand what IS an rpg by DEFINITION!!

[-Semper-]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Fair enough, but how about games actually developed for PC and not just ported? Surely piracy has an effect on whether devs bother to do this?

if you observe the market you will come to the point that these games are indeed a minority. i would not go that far and claim that this is the pirate's fault. it's more hidden within the genre of a game and which engine is used. there are engines out there no current console can ever handle without recoding the main architecture. this goes for gameplay too. rts and mmorpgs don't fit consoles really well.

if you are developing a more "casual" (yes, i use that doomed word for console games ) gamestyle then you have to develope with consoles in mind cause it's in fact dictated by the publisher. bioware learned that lesson the hard way.

wwwwowwww wrote...

Sorry, but not sure what your trying to say here, but I'll smile and wink anyways

as ayleus said - story and well developed characters are included in any game...

Modifié par -Semper-, 09 août 2010 - 09:21 .

[AllThatJazz]

-Semper- wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote...

Fair enough, but how about games actually developed for PC and not just ported? Surely piracy has an effect on whether devs bother to do this?

if you observe the market you will come to the point that these games are indeed a minority. i would not go that far and claim that this is the pirate's fault. it's more hidden within the genre of a game and which engine is used. there are engines out there no current console can ever handle without decoding the main architecture. this goes for gameplay too. rts and mmorpgs don't fit consoles really well.

if you are developing a more "casual" (yes, i use that doomed word for console games ) gamestyle then you have to develope with consoles in mind cause it's in fact dictated by the publisher. bioware learned that lesson the hard way.

wwwwowwww wrote...

Sorry, but not sure what your trying to say here, but I'll smile and wink anyways

as ayleus said - story and well developed characters are included in any game...

Then piracy has no appreciable effect? Other than being theft, that is, and depriving people/companies of the rewards of their work? Actually I can think of one - the development of things like SecuRom, which was a response to pirating, no? Something pirates get around anyway and is just a pain in the arse for honest gamers.

Anyway, I don't want to keep discussing this here - this is the kind of talk that can get a thread locked, I believe 

[-Semper-]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Then piracy has no appreciable effect? Other than being theft, that is, and depriving people/companies of the rewards of their work? Actually I can think of one - the development of things like SecuRom, which was a response to pirating, no? Something pirates get around anyway and is just a pain in the arse for honest gamers.

Anyway, I don't want to keep discussing this here - this is the kind of talk that can get a thread locked, I believe 

the big bad business everybody tries to imply that piracy has done is more or less pr whining. still they claim that every copy is in fact a lost sale - i would send them to business school. as long as trading exists there was also piracy - through the beginning to the end. it never destroyed and never will destroy firms. ****, even money is being pirated! yes, piracy has an affect to your sales, but this is a very small minority! throughout the years there were many copy protection systems and every single one was cracked after a few days - all these years publishers whined about piracy and how it will destroy the business. now look at them: THEY ARE F****** BILLIONAIRES WITH EMPIRES RULING THE GAMING BUSINESS . they can afford developing a game which costs millions ofdollars.  that is because of the monopolization of the gaming platforms and has absolutely nothing to do with piracy - it's pure CAPITALISM even the world crisis has absolutely NO AFFECT at game sales!

if your game is well developed there are more then enough encouraged people spending their hard earned money for games. but still gamers believe in the pr doomsayers lying about how bad piracy is just to press out the last two cents of the cash cow...

Modifié par -Semper-, 09 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Ayleus]

AllThatJazz wrote:



"Then piracy has no appreciable effect? Other than being theft, that is, and depriving people/companies of the rewards of their work? Actually I can think of one - the development of things like SecuRom, which was a response to pirating, no? Something pirates get around anyway and is just a pain in the arse for honest gamers.



Anyway, I don't want to keep discussing this here - this is the kind of talk that can get a thread locked, I believe /images/forum/emoticons/smile.png"



My response: (P.S. plz don't nix this moderators.....this is an honest opinion with respect given where deserved.......or at least it is attempted )



I understand and respect your opinion. However, if these companies made respectable products then this would much less of an issue (although I agree with you that there would be some loss due to pirating regardless....such is life). What these game companies (hell, any PC software company for that matter) need to realize is that a quality product will, in the end, most likely be profitable (NOTE: A "Hardcore RPG PC" approach is harder to develop....but WILL sell eventually in enough areas (DLCs for example) with enough time to make up for lost initial revenue.....more than likely (I suppose I could be wrong...i'm not bioware looking at yearly figures).



Again, ALL software products are crackable......it is up to the developers to make sure that ppl don't WANT to ultimately pirate their software....hence the quality factor. Please, any non "do-no-wrong" bioware ppl.....Don't give these guys any slack ppl. You WILL end up with a pile of mainstreamed crap if you do.....you are getting a wiff of it right now!!!! Make your voices heard.....and support them if they listen for the LOVE OF.......well, NATURE!!! Support if deserved.....not before.

[wwwwowwww]

Ayleus wrote...

wwwwowwww wrote:

"Spiritual successor does not mean duplicate of. It means in the spirit of, as in great story, in depth characters a game you can attach yourself too. Pretty sure they captured that spirit with DA:O "

My response:

lol....who said anything about duplicate. If you want "great story" and "in depth characters you can attach yourself too" then go play ANY GAME. All genres have good games that let you experience these things. What makes a great rpg is customizable options for your pc. End of Story. It really is just that simple. The more you let players customize their characters and with that... influence the game world through "ripples" from important decisions made through such characters....those are elements of an RPG. And yes, inventory, loot for kills, exp. for kills falls into this category. I beginning to be more and more convinced that the genre of RPG is confused and lossing definition in today's gaming society. I've read may threads and most ppl just don't seem to know which gives leverage to bioware for abandoning RPG core elements. Look, you want to understand the RPG elements....look at KOTOR 2. I know it isn't the most "pleasing-to-the-eye" game...but the language and contextual content is intelligent and forces you to think and remember through the game. Anyone who has played this via PC platform will know what i mean. I do not mean to imply this game embodies all that is RPG.....but it helps understand what IS an rpg by DEFINITION!!

You sir are missing my point completely, there is a HUGE difference between "successor" and "spiritual successor" DA:O you got even more customization on your character than you did in BG, even with being tied to playing a human in DA:2 you will have more character customization than you did in BG.  
They've already said that DA:O decisions will influence how your world is in DA:2, you will see events unfold within hours not at the end during the credits, this already surpasses BG.
I thank you for your tutoring but I've been playing RPG's for 20+ years now, pretty sure I got a grasp on what an RPG is. I also have a grasp on reality and what can and cannot be converted from paper to computer. I say stop looking from something to complain about and start seeing the good aspect of what's to come. If you buy it and it turns out you don't enjoy it, then so be it, but at least at that point you will have been unbiased in your opinion.

[AllThatJazz]

Ayleus wrote...

AllThatJazz wrote:

"Then piracy has no appreciable effect? Other than being theft, that is, and depriving people/companies of the rewards of their work? Actually I can think of one - the development of things like SecuRom, which was a response to pirating, no? Something pirates get around anyway and is just a pain in the arse for honest gamers.

Anyway, I don't want to keep discussing this here - this is the kind of talk that can get a thread locked, I believe /images/forum/emoticons/smile.png"

My response: (P.S. plz don't nix this moderators.....this is an honest opinion with respect given where deserved.......or at least it is attempted )

I understand and respect your opinion. However, if these companies made respectable products then this would much less of an issue (although I agree with you that there would be some loss due to pirating regardless....such is life). What these game companies (hell, any PC software company for that matter) need to realize is that a quality product will, in the end, most likely be profitable (NOTE: A "Hardcore RPG PC" approach is harder to develop....but WILL sell eventually in enough areas (DLCs for example) with enough time to make up for lost initial revenue.....more than likely (I suppose I could be wrong...i'm not bioware looking at yearly figures).

Again, ALL software products are crackable......it is up to the developers to make sure that ppl don't WANT to ultimately pirate their software....hence the quality factor. Please, any non "do-no-wrong" bioware ppl.....Don't give these guys any slack ppl. You WILL end up with a pile of mainstreamed crap if you do.....you are getting a wiff of it right now!!!! Make your voices heard.....and support them if they listen for the LOVE OF.......well, NATURE!!! Support if deserved.....not before.

I respect your view, also  I buy loads of things that I can't return if I don't like them (food, for example). I still can't justify going out and nicking it to see if I like it, then buying the product if I think it's good. Same with games. The best I can do is check out the 'ingredients' (via previews, reviews, dev diaries, demos if available, word of mouth, previous developer form) and make an educated guess. If it sounds good, I buy and enjoy.  If I'm unsure but I end up hating, then I take the hit to my wallet and learn better for next time, or I wait until I see the product reduced. If it sounds crap, I avoid. If you're buying the dlc etc anyway, then good for you, but you are in a small minority, and theft is theft.

And people's view of 'quality' is subjective, isn't it? I loved both Mass Effect games, despite not being a member of a 'mainstream' audience at all (I pretty much only play CRPGs and puzzle games), and I'm really looking forward to DA2, isometric view or no isometric view. Lucky me, I guess, since I seem to be well catered to. But if a company isn't making the style of game I like, it doesn't mean that their game is of substandard quality, not respectable, and that therefore I am justified in having it for free.

And in the end (this is not a response to you, btw, but to the post above yours), it is irrelevant how rich these companies are, whether I approve of how rich they are, and whether piracy will significantly impact their profit margin or not. I have the right, as a consumer, to withhold my money from them,  to complain at the quality of the product they are offering if I find it not to my tastes (as people are doing here), even to take legal action if I feel strongly that I am being ripped off. Consumers can be an incredibly powerful group when enough feel the same way. This right does not extend to stealing. Ripping someone off because you feel ripped off makes not a right but two wrongs, as the saying goes.

And this is definitely my last word, cos I know I'm way off topic and I'm sorry!! 

 

[Sirsmirkalot]

Trooper Guy1 wrote...

 I'm sure they want to make it good for the consoles cause they got the most sales on the console. Why? Because the majority of the people on the PC pirated it. I wouldn't be surprised if in reality more people on the PC have it than consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware finally hit their limit with pirates and decided to cater to the consoles.

I don't think a person can be more wrong than this.

People seem to be forgetting that the PC is only one platform and that consoles are 2. Are you seriously expecting one platform to outsell 2 others? Bioware isn't porting over DA2 straight over from consoles, so PC sales couldn't have been bad. I'd even say that PC sales were about the same, if not more, if we'd look at it per console instead of combining them and tossing them at the PC.

Trooper Guy1 wrote...

However, pirates are also on the console as well, just not as many as on the PC.

This is also untrue. No one has any number on this. Download sites are filled with illegal console games atleast as much as pc games, per console.

And it isn't hard to make your console pirate ready from what I understand. A few years ago when I briefly played WoW, there were some..."simple souls" I shall call them, that managed to mod their Xbox without much problem.


So Trooper Guy1, keep it to yourself.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 09 août 2010 - 10:28 .