477 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

jln.francisco wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

As a matter of fact, I read in an article that the Chantry will wind up "distressed" in this story, but the thing is I don't remember where I read it, and therefore I'm relucant to blab overmuch about something I can't prove.

PS: It's "Exalted March."

war that a Chantry official would take part in could only be an Exalted March and given their control over Kirkwall there would be no reason for them to call such a thing unless the area was largely out of their control. I think it's a safe bet if the Inquisitor is looking to prevent a great war there'd be an Exalted March in there somewhere.

Don't know how/why I missed this, but...

How much do you want to bet that their control over Kirkwall will be loosened, if not completely gone, by the end of DA2?  Or at least, I see that as something that could potentially happen.

[Riona45]

LobselVith8 wrote...
The Chantry rails against the mages of the Circle, but has no problem having the same mages they rail against as evil using magic when it suits them - such as stopping the Blights or fighting against the technologically superior Qunari. Maybe Dragon Age 2 is going to explore the hypocrisy of the Chantry and their exploitation of the mages through the POV of Hawke and Bethany.

I second that--all of it.  These fascinating (albeit uncomfortable) setting dymanics are part of the reason why I can't resist playing a mage in this game, although I'm type of player who usually prefers magic users in general.

If the Circle was independent in the first place and mages weren't inhibited from having titles or being a part of society, Redcliffe wouldn't have been nearly obliterated and the revolt at the Circle never would have happened in the first place. I'm hoping that DA2 deals with this because it was disappointing to ask for the Magi Boon in DA:O and see it completely ignored in DA:A.

Indeed, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the mage boon (which I picked) gets mentioned, as that would really make my day.

[Riona45]

iTomes wrote...
if that fails im out of ideas, propably a "magic utopia" on some island from which the mages cant escape and where they can live their lives happily just like everyone else in citys full of magic?

If you can't escape it, it's not a utopia.

[Riona45]

tmp7704 wrote...
We don't know jack about the Dalish elves on larger scale or the Kolgrim's people --  actually, when you want to go this route, two of the Dalish keepers out of three we get to meet in DAO and the Awakening do use their magic to actively harm humans, either through use of demons or simply by blowing stuff up. And one of them to boot does it merely because she's dumb xenophobe easily tricked by the darkspawn. This isn't the sort of track record you'd want to invoke to support the case how letting the mages run free can't possibly end in tears.

Allow me to point out that Velanna was never a Keeper.  She had the specialization...but Alistair had the templar specialization, and he was never a templar.  She was also shunned by her own people.

Modifié par Riona45, 12 août 2010 - 01:05 .

[tmp7704]

Riona45 wrote...

Allow me to point out that Velanna was never a Keeper.  She had the specialization...but Alistair had the templar specialization, and he was never a templar.  She was also shunned by her own people.

Wasn't she the keeper's First in her clan, like Lanaya was to Zathrian? Lanaya becomes the Keeper of her clan if Zathrian dies, i'd expect Velanna to be equally competent to inherit such position (if it wasn't for the small detail eventually her own clan didn't want to have her around due to her xenophobic attitude)

also, slightly off-topic but Alistair was a templar for all intent and purposes. He's received full training, he did participate in templar duties and you can ask him "why has he remained a templar if he hated the Chantry". He didn't take vows (and so wasn't given the lyrium treatment) but that as he says himself isn't necessary for templar to use their skills.

Modifié par tmp7704, 12 août 2010 - 01:27 .

[Riona45]

tmp7704 wrote...
So why the surprise and outcry there's conscious effort to contain that potential abuse where it's possible?

I'm actually not opposed to regulating mages*, necessarily, it just shouldn't be the place of the Chantry to do that. 


*And I don't necessarily mean in the same exact way they are now, although if it was done without the Chantry it would still be an improvement.  For example, I don't see why you couldn't have secular anti-magic warriors--their power doesn't come from "divine magic" after all.

Modifié par Riona45, 12 août 2010 - 01:27 .

[Riona45]

jln.francisco wrote...
Because no one actually is? I mean when Plan B involves killing every living thing in the Tower you really aren't doing a good job are you?

A great point.

[Darren1861]

Dude, I agree with you 100 perecent man. I wish you could burn down the chanty and see all them destory in your path. Like, I played a Blood mage and what the point of being one when you could not do what Blood mage do Best...



I hope BioWare gives you more options in the new game coming out. The last one felt like even though, you did bad things it could still be a good thing in the end. Depend on how you look at it.

[Cheese Elemental]

I think what people are forgetting is that the Chantry as it stands in the DA storyline is similar to the medieval Catholic church, with corrupt leadership but a pure purpose. I mean, the average Catholic IRL isn't going to go all fire-and-brimstone on your arse, but a bishop in the medieval era might have.

Don't blame the religion, blame the people.

[Cheese Elemental]

jln.francisco wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

I think what people are forgetting is that the Chantry as it stands in the DA storyline is similar to the medieval Catholic church, with corrupt leadership but a pure purpose. I mean, the average Catholic IRL isn't going to go all fire-and-brimstone on your arse, but a bishop in the medieval era might have.
Don't blame the religion, blame the people.

I see your point but you can't deny two things 1) the Chantry's teaching directly blame the destruction of heaven on mages making them 'origin of sin'

The thing is though, they could be right. Mages clearly are capable of far more destruction than normal people. Do they deserve to be treated humanely? Yep. Should they be locked in a tower and told they're sinners? No. Should they be controlled to an extent and warned that their powers are inherently dangerous? Yes.

The concept of the Templars (a controlling force for the mages) is a good idea, but it's enforced too harshly.

jln.francisco wrote...
It's much more comparable to the Catholic Church's current stance on homosexuality and premarital sex. While the violent hostility isn't always there, it is still looked down upon and seen as evil by the power structure and the vast majority of its followers. This leads to policies and decisions that are detrimental to everyone. Much like the mages in DA are put in a hyper stressful enviornment that often lead to them 'losing their way.' (And when the stress inevitably takes them it's used as an excuse to make the situation even more stressful and emotionally damaging to future mages.)

Correct. Like I said, the average person who follows an Abrahamic faith isn't going to be violent opposed to homosexuality, probably just uncomfortable with it. After all, 'Leveticus' in the Bible says that if a man lies with another, then they must be put to death. This sounds absolutely preposterous to most (sane) people living in the West, and that discomfort leads to the cooling of attitudes towards homosexuals.

Personally, I forsee a split in the Chantry at some point, much like Catholicism and Christianity.

[Riona45]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

Mages clearly are capable of far more destruction than normal people. Do they deserve to be treated humanely? Yep. Should they be locked in a tower and told they're sinners? No. Should they be controlled to an extent and warned that their powers are inherently dangerous? Yes.

I actually addressed this very point not too long ago.  There are reasons to for mages to have restrictions, but I can't think of a good reason for the Chantry to be the entity enforcing them.

Modifié par Riona45, 12 août 2010 - 03:29 .

[Cheese Elemental]

jln.francisco wrote...

The thing is though, they could be right.

Or they could be making it up as they go along. There's no way to tell so for them to use this as an excuse to emprison an entire population is beyond reprehensible.

Indeed. The higher echelons of the leadership are corrupt, and change is needed. The crown doesn't have enough authority.

jln.francisco wrote...

The concept of the Templars (a controlling force for the mages) is a good idea, but it's enforced too harshly.

My problem with the Templars is you have people who aren't chosen for anything other then their devotion to the Chantry and kept addicted to a very harmful 'drug' placed in charge of overseeing children who are dragged away from their families and locked away from the outside world. It's a recipe for disaster.

Indeed. The lyrium addiction needs to stop (as it's unnecessary, as proven by Alistair and the Warden) and mages should be allowed contact with their families at the very least.

jln.francisco wrote...

Personally, I forsee a split in the Chantry at some point, much like Catholicism and Christianity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really hope this is what makes Hawke the most important man in the history of Thedas.

I can actually see Hawke pulling a 'Henry VIII'.

[The Edge]

Cheese Elemental wrote...

I think what people are forgetting is that the Chantry as it stands in the DA storyline is similar to the medieval Catholic church, with corrupt leadership but a pure purpose. I mean, the average Catholic IRL isn't going to go all fire-and-brimstone on your arse, but a bishop in the medieval era might have.
Don't blame the religion, blame the people.

Agree. To bad a lot of people seem to forget this...

[Riona45]

jln.francisco wrote...

I can actually see Hawke pulling a 'Henry VIII'.

I was hoping Martin Luther. I like the bottom up feel of it all but the Henry VIII route would be equally fun.

Either of those things implies establishing a new religion (or sect, or what have you), which I wouldn't be interested in, personally.  I don't oppose the option being there, though, for people who would enjoy it.

[Riona45]

The Edge wrote...

Cheese Elemental wrote...

I think what people are forgetting is that the Chantry as it stands in the DA storyline is similar to the medieval Catholic church, with corrupt leadership but a pure purpose. I mean, the average Catholic IRL isn't going to go all fire-and-brimstone on your arse, but a bishop in the medieval era might have.
Don't blame the religion, blame the people.

Agree. To bad a lot of people seem to forget this...

Or they just want to avoid arguing about real life religion and "pure purposes." 

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Another great post by tmp7704. I would like to add in an insignificant details or two:

People with power will eventually use it.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Are we still using that idiotic cliche.

Jowan: "I can do it. The day grows dark but lo here comes the dawn."

Are we messing with historical facts?

[captain.subtle]

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

Another great post by tmp7704. I would like to add in an insignificant details or two:

People with power will eventually use it.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph. Are we still using that idiotic cliche.

Jowan: "I can do it. The day grows dark but lo here comes the dawn."

Are we messing with historical facts?

No.

I am dismissing your brainless one liner that means jack zilch with another brainless one liner that means jack zilch.

Hmm. Let me add one more then, just to encourage you, "Spite is the last resort of the idiot."

Modifié par captain.subtle, 12 août 2010 - 02:09 .