I think both demons were the test, even the sloth demon was, to a degree -- what you learn in the Fade is, there's more than one threat there and they can be of different kinds. It's not always as simple as fighting obvious danger, but it doesn't make these obvious dangers any less real, either. The rage demon tries to possess you through brute force because that's all it knows, it is essence of rage after all. Pride demon on the other hand is embodiment of well, pride. It tells you itself, "simple killing is a warrior's job." It may be beneath such a creature to go for straightforward approach -- being it's all pride, it can't bring itself to act the same way a most primitive Fade denizen would.Everwarden wrote...
But if you actually think about what you just said, you'll realize that you're wrong. The rage demon attacks you, but who was the real threat in the harrowing? I interpreted the rage demon attacking you as merely a distraction technique, to lull your character into thinking that fighting a demon off is as simple and straightforward as a confrontation with said demon.
What was the intended lesson of the harrowing? It was a PRIDE demon, the highest demon on the food chain. If it's as easy as just battering a mage in the fade and stepping into his body, why wouldn't the pride demon have just taken you? You're nowhere near a match for a demon of that class at that point in the game, either game-mechanic or lore-wise, so if what you're saying is true why would a pride demon bother with subterfuge, or with trying to convince you to let him in? Hell, the demon says it himself "All you have to do is want to let me in."
Playing Against the Chantry
#376
Posté 15 août 2010 - 10:50
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Retour en haut
#377
Posté 15 août 2010 - 11:06
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C9316 wrote...
So you're mad?Riona45 wrote...
Archereon wrote...
You know, if I was Christian I'd probably be frightened by a lot of the comments in this thread, and glad that most Americans are religious.
The internet isn't America, just so you know. And if you take criticism of a ficitional religion seriously, then you are an idiot.
Mad about what?
Modifié par Riona45, 15 août 2010 - 11:11 .
#378
Posté 15 août 2010 - 11:14
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captain.subtle wrote...
Don't feed the troll.
What a pitiful attempt to make yourself feel better.
I think my numerous posts on this board speak for themselves--most people here would say that I am not a troll. You and other people can disagree and I will not lose sleep over that, sorry.
Modifié par Riona45, 15 août 2010 - 11:14 .
#379
Posté 15 août 2010 - 11:27
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jln.francisco wrote...
No it isn't especially for someone where Keili (i think her name is) is at emotionally. You don't get there by noticing difference between you and other people.
Indeed. My PC knew she was different from other people, but she didn't hate herself and pray for death and/or to have her magic stripped away.
#380
Posté 15 août 2010 - 11:37
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You know, if you insist it couldn't be possibly plot-powered buff to Jowan's abilities then it poses a conundrum. If the templars are indeed so pointless, incompetent and easy to take out with single spell even when prepared, how comes the Circles exist at all? After all if we take Jowan's ability as low end of blood mage's power level (he only "dabbled" in these arts after all) then it shouldn't take more than few blood mages to blow these places apart long time ago. Mind control the guard to get you in, wipe the floor with unprepared templars, profit. gg, next circle plx. No?jln.francisco wrote...
No bull**** because the plot needed it excuses. The Tower is a heavily fortified structure in the middle of a lake. Jowan is a suspected blood mage and defeats the Templars sent to apprehend him with ease and manages to evade capture. So obviously the Templars aren't as invulnerable to magic as they lead others to believe nor are their preventive measures all that great.
It's not the best but it's neither bad enough to the point where they couldn't show a character punching another or using a spell/ability -- if they don't then it's not because the game engine doesn't allow it and it appears more like collective case of holding the idiot ball.The animation is weak through out the whole game. Generally I ignore it and focus on the dialogue and what's actually happening rather then how they try to render it.
Small problem here -- Wynne actually dies from fighting a demon, not abomination. A rage demon, going by the description you get from Petra. Meaning no, it doesn't appear mages can fight abominations any better templars can. Or at least Wynne cannot be used as example given she didn't actually fight one (that we'd be aware of)Yes it does as (even though it kills her) Wynne has some success. Mages can fight these creatures with a much higher possibility of victory then Templars. All the Templars in the Tower were only prepared for a few abominations whereas a mage can hold her own against one for some time.
I'm sorry but this is very much conjecture. The mages themselves make it quite obvious:Yes they are fighting back as the Tower is full of abominations and abominations have no allies but other demons and abominations. They've managed to form a small group and are surviving in a horribly hostile environment.
blood_mage_2: What are we doing? Have you thought about it?
blood_mage_3: We're making sure no one disrupts Uldred's plan. I thought that was quite clear.
blood_mage_2: But he's not Uldred anymore... I never wanted it to go this far.
blood_mage_3: Neither did I, but this is what we're faced with and--
blood_mage_1: Quiet! Both of you! I think I heard something. Keep your eyes open...
they are essentially sitting there in area without any actual demons/abominations and still sticking with Uldred despite knowing what he's become. There's no talk of any fighting back there. If sitting in safe spot is indication of "fighting back" then by the same token Owain the tranquil is "fighting back" while sitting in the storeroom, too.
Your original point was "in every instance the mage must invite the demon in". If you equal the act of breaking one's will to the point they can no longer object with "inviting the demon in" then it's a generalization broad to the point things become somewhat absurd. Similar to claiming say, a man robbed at gunpoint invited the robber to his wallet by not putting up a fight.Yes, it tries to break your will. What does that have to do with my original point? I don't see how that scenario is any more likely if you aren't in the Tower. Demons can't simply take your body over. They have break you down to do it.
You've never met a person so painfully self-conscious about say, not meeting the ridiculous "standards" of beauty promoted by the media even though no one actually pointed fingers at them and harrassed them for not meeting these standards? I can only conclude you're lucky then, but such lack of exposure doesn't make what you believe true.No it isn't especially for someone where Keili (i think her name is) is at emotionally. You don't get there by noticing difference between you and other people.Often it's enough for a person to see they're different from a norm.
I can see you've pretty much dodged my question which followed that, though.You can't see me but I'm rolling my eyes at you.Why do people choose to take vague pot-shots instead of making actual arguments?
Modifié par tmp7704, 15 août 2010 - 11:58 .
#381
Posté 15 août 2010 - 11:49
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tmp7704 wrote...
You've never met a person so painfully self-conscious about say, not meeting the ridiculous "standards" of beauty promoted by the media even though no one actually pointed fingers at them and harrassed them for not meeting these standards?
You wouldn't know whether or not they've never been harrassed unless they told you that, though.
Modifié par Riona45, 16 août 2010 - 12:23 .
#382
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:02
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Yes, obviously.Riona45 wrote...
You wouldn't know whether or not they've ever been harrassed unless they told you that, though.
#383
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Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:22
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It's not the best but it's neither bad enough to the point where they couldn't show a character punching another or using a spell/ability -- if they don't then it's not because the game engine doesn't allow it and it appears more like collective case of holding the idiot ball.
I didn't say the game engine didn't allow it I said the animations are terrible which they are and I stand by that. They are not well done and shouldn't be relied upon to tell you anything other then who's where. Do you really think Morrigan does that creepy walk while trying to seduce you? Of course not, the developers just did a poor job animating it.
Small problem here -- Wynne actually dies from fighting a demon, not abomination. A rage demon, going by the description you get from Petra. Meaning no, it doesn't appear mages can fight abominations any better templars can. Or at least Wynne cannot be used as example given she didn't actually fight one (that we'd be aware of)
Changing nothing since a god only knows how old woman is still more successful at combating fade monsters then the expertly trained Templars.
blood_mage_2: What are we doing? Have you thought about it?
blood_mage_3: We're making sure no one disrupts Uldred's plan. I thought that was quite clear.
blood_mage_2: But he's not Uldred anymore... I never wanted it to go this far.
blood_mage_3: Neither did I, but this is what we're faced with and--
blood_mage_1: Quiet! Both of you! I think I heard something. Keep your eyes open...
This sounds exactly like the situation I described. They have a little more knowledge of Uldred's turn for the worse but they're still behaving like I'd expect a group with nothing else to turn to to behave like. Furthermore the fact that one of them seems to be the lookout means the area is not free of hostiles and I think it's safe to say if they know what Uldred has become (or suspect it) then they've had to contend with demons and abominations to get to where they are. Otherwise, how would they know?
Your original point was "in every instance the mage must invite the demon in". If you equal the act of breaking one's will to the point they can no longer object with "inviting the demon in" then it's a generalization broad to the point things become somewhat absurd. Similar to claiming say, a man robbed at gunpoint invited the robber to his wallet by not putting up a fight.
You are pedantic but I will concede the point. I was to general. But that was not my point, my point was that the situations likely to cause that are no rarer outside the Tower then in it and that the Tower's prison like environment would help foster the feelings that make one more susceptible to possession.
You've never met a person so painfully self-conscious about say, not meeting the ridiculous "standards" of beauty promoted by the media even though no one actually pointed fingers at them and harrassed them for not meeting these standards? I can only conclude you're lucky then, but such lack of exposure doesn't make what you believe true.
Feelings of inadequacy ect aren't uncommon and yes, will develop for things as small as failing to win a race or having bushy eyebrows or what have you. Feelings of self hate, depression and suicide are a lot harder to come by and require a lot more emotional baggage and trauma then what you're describing. Kaili is not the chunky girl self conscious about her weight afraid no one wants to go out with her. She's the one setting fire to the girl's bathroom because every time she goes home Mommy either smacks her around or is to doped up to notice she's there.
Modifié par jln.francisco, 16 août 2010 - 12:31 .
#384
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:24
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tmp7704 wrote...
Yes, obviously.
It might not make a difference to you but I have edited my post.
Modifié par Riona45, 16 août 2010 - 12:24 .
#385
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:37
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Riona45 wrote...
What a pitiful attempt to make yourself feel better.
I think my numerous posts on this board speak for themselves--most people here would say that I am not a troll. You and other people can disagree and I will not lose sleep over that, sorry.
Good to know you are the majority here. You´re the only one who doesn´t consider you a troll.
#386
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Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:38
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Tirigon wrote...
Riona45 wrote...
What a pitiful attempt to make yourself feel better.
I think my numerous posts on this board speak for themselves--most people here would say that I am not a troll. You and other people can disagree and I will not lose sleep over that, sorry.
Good to know you are the majority here. You´re the only one who doesn´t consider you a troll.
The criticism you make does not follow.
#387
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:39
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Tirigon wrote...
Riona45 wrote...
What a pitiful attempt to make yourself feel better.
I think my numerous posts on this board speak for themselves--most people here would say that I am not a troll. You and other people can disagree and I will not lose sleep over that, sorry.
Good to know you are the majority here. You´re the only one who doesn´t consider you a troll.
...Um, I've certainly see more people label you as a troll than Riona, whom I've never seen do anything remotely troll-like.
#388
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:44
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Saibh wrote...
...Um, I've certainly see more people label you as a troll than Riona, whom I've never seen do anything remotely troll-like.
Thank you, and thank you jln.
#389
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:45
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Riona45 wrote...
Saibh wrote...
...Um, I've certainly see more people label you as a troll than Riona, whom I've never seen do anything remotely troll-like.
Thank you, and thank you jln.
(But I should point out that saying Tirigon is a troll may not be right either--I can only recall a few times speaking with him.)
Modifié par Saibh, 16 août 2010 - 12:45 .
#390
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:47
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Saibh wrote...
...Um, I've certainly see more people label you as a troll than Riona, whom I've never seen do anything remotely troll-like.
Yea. And I have certainly seen more people here who think with their ass than ones who think with their brain. Connection there? Let your mind wander......
(Edit: That´s not meant as an insult to you or something, just a general observation)
Modifié par Tirigon, 16 août 2010 - 12:47 .
#391
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:50
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Modifié par Riona45, 16 août 2010 - 12:56 .
#392
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:56
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#393
Posté 16 août 2010 - 12:57
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thegreateski wrote...
If someone disagrees with you then they are a troll.
I disagree, troll!
#394
Guest_jln.francisco_*
Posté 16 août 2010 - 01:55
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You know, if you insist it couldn't be possibly plot-powered buff to Jowan's abilities then it poses a conundrum. If the templars are indeed so pointless, incompetent and easy to take out with single spell even when prepared, how comes the Circles exist at all? After all if we take Jowan's ability as low end of blood mage's power level (he only "dabbled" in these arts after all) then it shouldn't take more than few blood mages to blow these places apart long time ago. Mind control the guard to get you in, wipe the floor with unprepared templars, profit. gg, next circle plx. No?
Jowan knows a ritual that can tear open the Veil and allow a mage to pass through it. That does not sound like dabbling in Blood Magic. I'm pretty sure he was trying to downplay what he knew to make it not seem as bad to Lily which was rather stupid of him considering how much she hates Blood Magic and the contempt she already feels for magic in general.
I imagine it's a complicated situation. You have a number of factors at play keeping the Mages from realizing they really are capable of taking down the Templars.(probably why the Circle Tower is in such an isolated spot. Even if the mages revolted they still wouldn't be able to get anywhere before the Rite of Annulment arrives.) You have the religion they are indoctrinated into from a young age, the fact all they ever see are Templars, the knowledge even if they escaped, where would they go (they'd be criminals to the outside world), Senior Mages like Wynne who constantly tell them they are safest in the Tower ect.
Also there are supposed to be some kind of signs to possession. Gregoir comments on how Lily seems in complete control of her mind and 'not at all the thrall of a blood mage.' If you tried anything you'd be spotted and I never said Templars were incapable of handling mages. In fact I've mentioned before how they're the only things they are trained and equipped to deal with. I was only pointing out how they aren't all that unstoppable and that many of their abilities are exaggerated. (That is exaggerated by people passing on the lore and not the actual game itself.) But as far as actually controlling outbreaks goes and identifying maleficarum, yes they are completely out of their league.
#395
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Posté 16 août 2010 - 02:00
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What kind of greeting will a mageHawke and Bethany receive? Since they're likely to be apostates they're going to have to go into some kind of hiding. Given that Templars at least have the ability to sense magic (Otto knew there was a demon about in the Alienage) they'd be spotted soon enough. Any thoughts on how that might be handled?
#396
Posté 16 août 2010 - 02:10
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jln.francisco wrote...
What kind of greeting will a mageHawke and Bethany receive? Since they're likely to be apostates they're going to have to go into some kind of hiding. Given that Templars at least have the ability to sense magic (Otto knew there was a demon about in the Alienage) they'd be spotted soon enough. Any thoughts on how that might be handled?
Not sure, but I have the feeling it wouldn't disrupt the pace of the game too much--otherwise being a mage simply would not have been an option. As for Bethany, well...let's just hope she isn't a Mauve Shirt.
#397
Posté 16 août 2010 - 02:18
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Riona45 wrote...
jln.francisco wrote...
What kind of greeting will a mageHawke and Bethany receive? Since they're likely to be apostates they're going to have to go into some kind of hiding. Given that Templars at least have the ability to sense magic (Otto knew there was a demon about in the Alienage) they'd be spotted soon enough. Any thoughts on how that might be handled?
Not sure, but I have the feeling it wouldn't disrupt the pace of the game too much--otherwise being a mage simply would not have been an option. As for Bethany, well...let's just hope she isn't a Mauve Shirt.
Or is possessed by Flemeth.
#398
Posté 16 août 2010 - 02:19
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Saibh wrote...
Or is possessed by Flemeth.
Yeah, I...kind of don't want that either. Or maybe I've turned against the idea simply because so many people bring it up. :-/
Modifié par Riona45, 16 août 2010 - 02:20 .
#399
Posté 16 août 2010 - 03:00
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They are both trolls.Saibh wrote...
Tirigon wrote...
Riona45 wrote...
What a pitiful attempt to make yourself feel better.
I think my numerous posts on this board speak for themselves--most people here would say that I am not a troll. You and other people can disagree and I will not lose sleep over that, sorry.
Good to know you are the majority here. You´re the only one who doesn´t consider you a troll.
...Um, I've certainly see more people label you as a troll than Riona, whom I've never seen do anything remotely troll-like.
#400
Posté 16 août 2010 - 03:10
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C9316 wrote...
They are both trolls.
No, YOU are the troll for keeping this up after we've tried steer the thread back on topic. Get a life.
Modifié par Riona45, 16 août 2010 - 03:17 .
