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[AllThatJazz]

captain.subtle wrote...

Duncan was badass.

He had bedsores?

 

Well he was getting on a bit.

[MKDAWUSS]

I'm sure that if we ever were to return to Denerim, if you had Alistair as king, he'd have a giant statue of Duncan located in a prominent place. One of those can't-miss-it type of things. One (dis?)advantage to naming Anora queen of Ferelden.

[Face of Evil]

In Exile wrote...



What leadership role?



You're a bunch of rag-tag misfits trying to desperately convince everyone within earshot that a blight is coming and it'd be a pretty nifty idea if we all banded toghether to stop it.



The Warden doesn't do any meaningful commanding at all. Hell, Alistair/Anora and Eamon are the ones that march on Denerim, and Alistair/Anora is the one very visibly commands the army

I disagree. You direct your allies. When anyone approaches your group, you're the point of first contact. And you're the one pulling all of Ferelden together. You don't have to convince anyone of the Blight's danger; your allies just aren't in a position to help you until you resolve their difficulties.



Granted, you aren't directing troop movements, deciding on battle strategies, etc. But it's not a real-time strategy game, nor does it try to be one.

In Exile wrote...



Trying to take a dragon one on one by catapulting yourself at it is stupid. Seriously, he got lucky that he was thrown off and managed to clip a wing before falling to his death. What if the archdemon swerved? What if it turned upside down? What if it landed and had an ogre pull Riodan off?



There are so few ways his stunt could actually work.

But it did work. He did force the Archdemon to ground; if Riordan wasn't there, it would have kept flying around the city, blasting the occasional fortification. Eventually, the city and your army would have been overwhelmed by the darkspawn, who outnumbered your forces.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 07:12 .

[captain.subtle]

I disliked Dunacan because:



1) He <Force persuaded> me to become GW as a Human noble. Why the heck???? I could have escaped without his help!!



2) AS the Dalish he broke that Mirror!!! Hell why????? We could have taken it to Denerim for study!

[Face of Evil]

captain.subtle wrote...

I disliked Duncan because:



1) He <Force persuaded> me to become GW as a Human noble. Why the heck???? I could have escaped without his help!!

Sez you. The castle was surrounded and Howe's guards knew who you were and intended to kill you on sight. The secret passage just gets you out of the building. There's a reason your dad signs off on you becoming a Warden; Duncan is your best hope to get out of there.

captain.subtle wrote...



2) AS the Dalish he broke that Mirror!!! Hell why????? We could have taken it to Denerim for study!

So it could infect more people with the darkspawn taint? That thing turned Tamlen into a ghoul. It was killing you.

And why the hell would a Dalish elf take the mirror to a human city?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 07:24 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Face of Evil wrote...

captain.subtle wrote...

I disliked Duncan because:

1) He me to become GW as a Human noble. Why the heck???? I could have escaped without his help!!

Sez you. The castle was surrounded and Howe's guards knew who you were and intended to kill you on sight. The secret passage just gets you out of the building. There's a reason your dad signs off on you becoming a Warden; Duncan is your best hope to get out of there.

He (or she) could have made it out without Duncan. If the castle was THAT surrounded outside, Duncan would have been slain too. Duncan may have made the escape slightly easier, but I don't think he was necessary for the younger Cousland's escape.

[Face of Evil]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

He (or she) could have made it out without Duncan. If the castle was THAT surrounded outside, Duncan would have been slain too. Duncan may have made the escape slightly easier, but I don't think he was necessary for the younger Cousland's escape.

I'll refer to my earlier point: Duncan was BADASS. He'd been protecting your father on his own and slaughtering Howe's men the whole time you were trying to reach your dad. You got out of there alive because of Duncan's help. Why do you think your dad told you to join the Wardens when he was opposed to it before? He might have been light-headed from blood loss, but I don't think he was delusional.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 07:34 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Face of Evil wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

He (or she) could have made it out without Duncan. If the castle was THAT surrounded outside, Duncan would have been slain too. Duncan may have made the escape slightly easier, but I don't think he was necessary for the younger Cousland's escape.

I'll refer to my earlier point: Duncan was BADASS. He'd been protecting your father on his own and slaughtering Howe's men the whole time you were trying to reach your dad. Your low-level Human Noble butt needed saving. Why else did your dad approve of you being recruited?

The dog saved my PC more than Duncan did.

Also, I don't think Duncan did it on his own - there were pockets of Cousland guards here and there to help.

And Teyrn Cousland approved because now he owed Duncan and had little choice about nominating a substitute like Ser Gilmore.

[thenemesis77]

Face of Evil wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

He (or she) could have made it out without Duncan. If the castle was THAT surrounded outside, Duncan would have been slain too. Duncan may have made the escape slightly easier, but I don't think he was necessary for the younger Cousland's escape.

I'll refer to my earlier point: Duncan was BADASS. He'd been protecting your father on his own and slaughtering Howe's men the whole time you were trying to reach your dad. You got out of there alive because of Duncan's help. Why do you think your dad told you to join the Wardens when he was opposed to it before? He might have been light-headed from blood loss, but I don't think he was delusional.

Yea, he is Duncan Macleod of the Clan Maccleod. Now we know why David named him that........their can be only ONE! bhahah. I still hate Riordan and am glad he fell from so high up, I was LMAO!

[In Exile]

Face of Evil wrote...

I disagree. You direct your allies. When anyone approaches your group, you're the point of first contact. And you're the one pulling all of Ferelden together. You don't have to convince anyone of the Blight's danger; your allies just aren't in a position to help you until you resolve their difficulties.

The fact that everyone believes that you are a Grey Warden and that the blight is a real threat seem to be a design decision.

There is any particular reason for anyone to believe you. All you do is waltz in, claim you're a Warden, and claim there's a blight. Everyone just seems to take you at your word.

And you don't pull all of Ferelden toghether at all. Eamon and Alistair/Anora unite Ferelden. The dwarves are toghether. You just play kingmaker because you find the lunatic dwarf that can make the Crown-Of-Instant-Win. The closest you get to a moment of leadership is when if you can manage to convice the werewolves to continue existing as a hellish nightmare to fight the blight.

Granted, you aren't directing troop movements, deciding on battle strategies, etc. But it's not a real-time strategy game, nor does it try to be one.

That would be commanding, but leadership is more than that.

But it did work. He did force the Archdemon to ground; if Riordan wasn't there, it would have kept flying around the city, blasting the occasional fortification. Eventually, the city and your army would have been overwhelmed by the darkspawn, who outnumbered your forces.

That's a terrible justification, though. I agree that the Archdemon had to be forced to the ground. But the plan itself was stupid, even if did end up working.

There were better alternatives available, including using siege weapons and magic. Riordan didn't have any plan except engage alone like a lunatic, which is about as good of an idea as a single man charge against a trench in WWI. Sure, it is within the realm of possiblity it could work, but more likely than not you end up dying painfully.

[Face of Evil]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

The dog saved my PC more than Duncan did.

The dog was also by your side through the entire second half of the Origin story. But he still wasn't getting your low-level sword and board peon past the enemy lines on his own.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Also, I don't think Duncan did it on his own - there were pockets of Cousland guards here and there to help.

Most of whom were getting slaughtered by Howe's men.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And Teyrn Cousland approved because now he owed Duncan and had little choice about nominating a substitute like Ser Gilmore.

Owed him for what? You don't seem to think that Duncan did anything for Bryce Cousland. So what did he owe him for? And what debt did Bryce owe Duncan that was equal to letting him conscript his own flesh and blood into the Grey Wardens?

Look, before you keep arguing with me, let's say that I'm completely right. (Which I am.) How does needing Duncan's help to escape the castle detract from the story? Why would it be better that your HN character could escape on his own and his joining the Grey Wardens was completely unnecessary?

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 08:38 .

[Face of Evil]

Whoops, doublepost.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 08:03 .

[AlexXIV]

captain.subtle wrote...

I disliked Dunacan because:

1) He me to become GW as a Human noble. Why the heck???? I could have escaped without his help!!

2) AS the Dalish he broke that Mirror!!! Hell why????? We could have taken it to Denerim for study!

He had the Right of Conscription, he didn't have to ask, but he did.

[Demx]

jln.francisco wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Facing the Archdemon one on one WAS SUICIDLE! In a battle there is no think, there is just do. The best way he could kill the Archdemon was that way! In the air and on the double. Why would he try to steal the show? He's a warden for christ sake, it's not a competition! Jumping on the Archdemon was the best possible way at the time to do it, for the Archdemon could not attack or fight back at all, he was helpless.

He jumped off a building onto the back of a moving creature several hundred feet above ground. I agree in battle you go back to everything you've learned up to that point but unless this is a proven tactic against dragons I don't see why you would even consider doing it.

Plus the Archdemon could fight back, it could swerve, dive, go upside down or just make a very erratic movement just as Riordan jumps onto him.

I can understand him wanting to do it, and I can understand him thinking it might work. But the fact of the matter is it was a longshot he'd even wound the bastard.

Not to mention the night before Riordan tells you that he is going to take the final blow. You would think that Riordan would do everything in his power to stay alive. And not to try a 1 in a million shot to take the Archdeamon down before it was even worn out.

[Face of Evil]

In Exile wrote...

There isn't any particular reason for anyone to believe you. All you do is waltz in, claim you're a Warden, and claim there's a blight. Everyone just seems to take you at your word.

They don't "need" your word to know that there's a huge uprising of darkspawn in the south, which is pretty indicative of a Blight. This is common knowledge, as is the destruction of half of Ferelden's forces at Ostagar. Only Ferelden's human nobility needs persuading of the danger because they're either focused entirely on deposing Logain or paranoid about the dreaded Orlesians. Everyone else you go to? They already know about the danger.

And what version of Orzammar did you enter that made you think the dwarves were "together"? They were on the brink of civil war. No one was in a position to help you until you played kingmaker. And it was still up to you to decide which candidate to seat in Orzammar's throne.

In Exile wrote...

And you don't pull all of Ferelden toghether at all. Eamon and Alistair/Anora unite Ferelden. The dwarves are toghether. You just play kingmaker because you find the lunatic dwarf that can make the Crown-Of-Instant-Win. The closest you get to a moment of leadership is when if you can manage to convice the werewolves to continue existing as a hellish nightmare to fight the blight.

Arl Eamon is influential enough to call a Landsmeet, but he outright admits that he can't take on Loghain without your support. You still need to convince the nobility of the danger that the Blight faces, and it's still up to you to decide who takes the throne and is able to take control of what's left of Ferelden's standing army. But Anora and Alistair still defer to YOUR leadership.

In Exile wrote...

That's a terrible justification, though. I agree that the Archdemon had to be forced to the ground. But the plan itself was stupid, even if did end up working.

Riordan didn't have time to come up with anything more complicated. The Archdemon was passing underneath the tower Riordan had climbed. There wasn't time to go fetch a mage or set up a ballista. He had to act immediately or it would have flown by. And it needed to be brought down quickly, as the darkspawn horde vastly outnumbered your army. Eventually, they would have overwhelmed your army and slaughtered everyone in Denerim. The only way to prevent that was to defeat the archdemon as soon as possible.

Given the circumstances, Riordan did the best he could.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 08:37 .

[In Exile]

Face of Evil wrote...
They don't "need" your word to know that there's a huge uprising of darkspawn in the south, which is pretty indicative of a Blight. This is common knowledge, as is the destruction of half of Ferelden's forces at Ostagar. Only Ferelden's human nobility needs persuading of the danger because they're either focused entirely on deposing Logain or paranoid about the dreaded Orlesians. Everyone else you go to? They already know about the danger.

Alright, let's say it is common knowledge that there is a blight. This makes your decidedly non-leader role even less critical. All that you're doing at this point is bugging them to do something they'd do anyway apparently, since all sides already know about the blight.

Arl Eamon is influential enough to call a Landsmeet, but he outright admits that he can't take on Loghain without your support. You still need to convince the nobility of the danger that the Blight faces, and it's still up to you to decide who takes the throne and is able to take control of what's left of Ferelden's standing army. But Anora and Alistair still defer to YOUR leadership.

Anora most certainly does not defer to you in any way. Alistair does, but only if you don't harden him. If you harden Alistair, he decides he needs to grow a spine.

At the landsmeet, you and Loghain scream at each other a bit and the landsmeet sides with one of you. Eamon points out that if you fail at the Landsmeet, all that will happen is that Eamon will capitulate for Loghain to unite Ferelden. So the uniting part is inevitable.

More to the point, the landsmeet inevitably ends with you and Loghain bludgeoning each other to death. Leadership isn't puching the other guy in the face.

In Exile wrote...

Riordan didn't have time to come up with anything more complicated. The Archdemon was passing underneath the tower Riordan had climbed.

I happened to glance at a map, and as it turns out, Redcliffe is really far away from Derenim. It's not like the Archdemon existing caught Riordan by surprise.

There just was no plan to do anything other than charge Derenim like idiots and hope for the best, apparently.

There wasn't time to go fetch a mage or set up a ballista. He had to act immediately or it would have flown by. And it needed to be brought down quickly, as the darkspawn horde vastly outnumbered your army. Eventually, they would have overwhelmed your army and slaughtered everyone in Denerim. The only way to prevent that was to defeat the archdemon as soon as possible.

Good thing that our resident senior Grey Warden told the army how the blight was unstoppable and that only 3 people in Ferelden could kill the archdemon and avert an apocalypse.

Riordan was brutally incompetent. Beside not bothering to actually tell anyone how to end the blight, no one bothers to come up with an anti-archdemon plan. That's even dumber, when you realize that the only possible way for the allied army to win is precisely to kill the archdemon above all else.

Given the circumstances, Riordan did the best he could.

No, given the circumstances Riordan almost led everyone to die. Not that team Warden was any better at coming up with a plan.

[In Exile]

Face of Evil wrote...

In Exile wrote...

There isn't any particular reason for anyone to believe you. All you do is waltz in, claim you're a Warden, and claim there's a blight. Everyone just seems to take you at your word.

They don't "need" your word to know that there's a huge uprising of darkspawn in the south, which is pretty indicative of a Blight. This is common knowledge, as is the destruction of half of Ferelden's forces at Ostagar. Only Ferelden's human nobility needs persuading of the danger because they're either focused entirely on deposing Logain or paranoid about the dreaded Orlesians. Everyone else you go to? They already know about the danger.

In Exile wrote...

And you don't pull all of Ferelden toghether at all. Eamon and Alistair/Anora unite Ferelden. The dwarves are toghether. You just play kingmaker because you find the lunatic dwarf that can make the Crown-Of-Instant-Win. The closest you get to a moment of leadership is when if you can manage to convice the werewolves to continue existing as a hellish nightmare to fight the blight.

Arl Eamon is influential enough to call a Landsmeet, but he outright admits that he can't take on Loghain without your support. You still need to convince the nobility of the danger that the Blight faces, and it's still up to you to decide who takes the throne and is able to take control of what's left of Ferelden's standing army. But Anora and Alistair still defer to YOUR leadership.

In Exile wrote...

That's a terrible justification, though. I agree that the Archdemon had to be forced to the ground. But the plan itself was stupid, even if did end up working.

Riordan didn't have time to come up with anything more complicated. The Archdemon was passing underneath the tower Riordan had climbed. There wasn't time to go fetch a mage or set up a ballista. He had to act immediately or it would have flown by. And it needed to be brought down quickly, as the darkspawn horde vastly outnumbered your army. Eventually, they would have overwhelmed your army and slaughtered everyone in Denerim. The only way to prevent that was to defeat the archdemon as soon as possible.

Given the circumstances, Riordan did the best he could.

[Face of Evil]

In Exile wrote...

Alright, let's say it is common knowledge that there is a blight. This makes your decidedly non-leader role even less critical. All that you're doing at this point is bugging them to do something they'd do anyway apparently, since all sides already know about the blight.

What is this "something" you refer to? Are you saying that they would have united under a common banner without the Grey Warden's intervention? How exactly would that have happened? Presuming they were able to resolve their own problems — which they can't, not without the Warden's help — how would these different armies band together? They all just show up at Denerim one day and they decide over a game of cards that it would be super neat-o to fight as an alliance?

In Exile wrote...

Anora most certainly does not defer to you in any way. Alistair does, but only if you don't harden him. If you harden Alistair, he decides he needs to grow a spine.

Oh, but she does. You think she would willingly support the man/woman who executed her father if she didn't need you?

Yeah, sure, Anora/Alistair gives a rousing speech to the army. That doesn't mean they aren't following your lead.

In Exile wrote...

At the landsmeet, you and Loghain scream at each other a bit and the landsmeet sides with one of you. Eamon points out that if you fail at the Landsmeet, all that will happen is that Eamon will capitulate for Loghain to unite Ferelden. So the uniting part is inevitable.

And is Loghain capable of defeating the Blight on his own? He is not. He's so paranoid about the Orlesians that he doesn't even believe this is a Blight despite the overwhelming evidence in front of him. And even if he did manage to clue in to the danger, Loghain cannot kill the archdemon, and he won't accept the help of the Grey Wardens. Ferelden is doomed as long as Loghain remains in control.

And anyways, the outcome of the Landsmeet only ends the civil war and unifies Ferelden's nobility against the threat. You still need to enlist the help of templars/mages, dwarves and elves/werewolves to have any hope of defeating the darkspawn.

In Exile wrote...

More to the point, the landsmeet inevitably ends with you and Loghain bludgeoning each other to death. Leadership isn't puching the other guy in the face.

What exactly fits these mysterious definition of leadership that you have? Because in my mind, leading a group of warriors around Ferelden to unite a fractured land so they can defeat a common enemy is a pretty good example of leadership.

In Exile wrote...

I happened to glance at a map, and as it turns out, Redcliffe is really far away from Derenim. It's not like the Archdemon existing caught Riordan by surprise.

And that prepared Riordan to know everything he needed to about the battlefield and how best to attack the Archdemon?

In Exile wrote...

Riordan was brutally incompetent. Beside not bothering to actually tell anyone how to end the blight, no one bothers to come up with an anti-archdemon plan. That's even dumber, when you realize that the only possible way for the allied army to win is precisely to kill the archdemon above all else.

What anti-archdemon plan was he supposed to come up with? Because I think the "find the archdemon and kill it" strategy was pretty well the only strategy available.

I guess you could say, "All right, once we get to Denerim, we're going to march all the mages and archers on to the city walls to ping the archdemon 'til it comes down, then Riordan swoops in with the stabby-stabby". Except no one even knew where exactly the Archdemon was going to be or how the battle was going to unfold or whether that would even work.

I'll give you that Riordan should have volunteered the information sooner about how only Grey Wardens can kill the archdemon. He really dropped the ball there.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 09:31 .

[In Exile]

Face of Evil wrote...
What is this "something" you refer to? Are you saying that they would have united under a common banner without the Grey Warden's intervention? How exactly would that have happened? Presuming they were able to resolve their own problems — which they can't, not without the Warden — how would these different armies band together?

Let's start from the begining, taking for granted your assumptions.

You claim that the other powers that join with Ferelden are aware there is a blight, know that it threatens them, and know that it must be stopped. On the other hand, you also claim that they are in some way short-sighted or otherwise plagued, and can't commit forces, so the Grey Warden is a leader by resolving their particular domestic problems so they can fight the blight.

I agree with you that the Warden plays an integral role in the defeat of the blight, and the different powers of Ferelden would not have cooperated without the banner of the Grey Wardens, but I disagree that this asking for allies makes your Grey Warden a leader, any more than Duncan convincing Cailin there was a blight to fight made him a leader.

Leadership is more than just being a symbol of unity.

Oh, but she does. Even if you put her on the throne, she ultimately has no choice but to support you.

Supporting you is not equivalent to following or defering to you. If Anora is Queen she agrees that the blight has to be ended and works with the other forces gathered.

That's not the Warden being in charge.

In fact, there is no portrayal of the Warden ever being in charge. No strategy session that you lead. No plans that you lay down. No coordinated meeting between allies that you attend.

Just you going about asking people to think about fighting the blight, then having them all show up en masse at Redcliffle and then Denerim, and then totally not coordinating or otherwise working toghether in any visible way during the course of the game.

I would agree if the Warden was a leader if, with these allied forces, the Warden did anything approaching leading, i.e. coordinating, settling disputes, dealing with logistics, or otherwise bringing four separate armies toghether.

But you do none of this.

And is Loghain capable of defeating the Blight on his own? He is not. He's so paranoid about the Orlesians that he doesn't even believe this is a Blight despite the overwhelming evidence in front of him. And even if he did manage to clue in to the danger, Loghain cannot kill the archdemon, and he won't accept the help of the Grey Wardens. Ferelden is doomed as long as Loghain remains in control.

None of which anyone, include you, knows. In fact, no one knows anything about what the Warden order does, which is why this stupid mess exists in the first place.

The issue is not whether or not Loghain is capable of beating the blight - beating the blight is a matter of special magic plot power than only you, Alistair and Riordan have. If Alistair killed the archdemon, that doesn't make him a leader. That just means he used his plot powers the right way.

The point at issue is whether or not the Warden united the landsmeet and Ferelden. Whether or not Loghain could have won against the blight is irrelevant.

What exactly fits these mysterious definition of leadership that you have? Because in my mind, leading a group of warriors around Ferelden to unite a fractured land so they can defeat a common enemy is a pretty good example of leadership.

Let's not present tautologies. Yes, leading a group of warriors is leadership, but what I am contesting is that this ever happened in game.

Like I said above: I happen to agree that in principle the Warden seems to have been intended as a leader of a band of warriors, but the game fails completely to portray this.

And that prepared Riordan to know everything he needed to about the battlefield and how best to attack the Archdemon?

It should have given anyone who wasn't an idiot enough time to come up with a plan better than literrally throwing himself off a building.

[

What anti-archdemon plan was he supposed to come up with? Because I think the "find the archdemon and kill it" strategy was pretty well the only strategy available.

Well, let's see: we know that the army is in Denerim and we know the precise layout of the city. We know that the Archdemon is airborne and that only defeating it could end the blight.

This means we have to identify places where we could conceivably reach the sky dragon, look to our resources (elven archers, golems, mages) and devise some coordinated action that is better than lunatic attacks dragon alone.

Rushing to Denerim for a suicide attack is just plain stupid.

I guess you could say, "All right, once we get to Denerim, we're going to march all the mages and archers on to the city walls to ping the archdemon 'til it comes down, then Riordan swoops in with the stabby-stabby". Except no one even knew where exactly the Archdemon was going to be or how the battle was going to unfold or whether that would even work.

It beats the current plan of jumping off buildings alone, sacificing one of only 3 living beings that could kill the archdemon.

No one ever knows how a battle can unfold. That doesn't make planning stupid or Riordan less suicidal.

You want to talk about leadership? If the game had a meeting where they layed out the battle, and the issue with reaching the archdemon, and the Warden decided on a plan to take down the archdemon, and then the allied forces coordinated to execute this plan, that would be leadership.

Instead we have Alistair/Anora give a speech to an army in your place, a lunatic old Grey Warden throwing himself off buildings....

It's a major fluke the blight was stopped by this concentrated idiocy.

[Face of Evil]

So in other words, to fit your idea of "leadership," the main character needs to sit through strategy sessions, conduct meetings between allies, pore over maps and decide on plans of attack, etc.

Well, you were looking for something the game is not, which is an action-oriented RPG. And that's no more a fault of Dragon Age than complaining about the lack of fishing in Grand Slam Tennis.

I don't agree with any of your arguments, but I see no point in debating this further.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 09 août 2010 - 09:52 .

[KJandrew]

@In Exile if the game did what you say you want it to do you would be here complaining that the game forced you to sit through strategy meetings. And were would they find the time to have these meetings, they were having a forced march to Denerim which means only leaving time for sleeping. And even if they did make your superplan of having all the archers and mages attack the archdemon similtanously there was the issue of the huge horde of darkspawn burning down your capital city. You also are expecting Riordan to have gone "No, I'll pass up what may be the only to force the archdemon to the ground so i can think of a good plan"

[In Exile]

KJandrew wrote...

@In Exile if the game did what you say you want it to do you would be here complaining that the game forced you to sit through strategy meetings.

No, if they had strategy meetings, I'd be talking about how awesome it was that we could command an army. You know, the thing completely consistent with my position instead of your strawman.

And were would they find the time to have these meetings, they were having a forced march to Denerim which means only leaving time for sleeping.

Well, instead of Riordan grabbing the idiot ball and only telling you and Alistair about the archdemon, once you learn that you need to force a march to Denrim, you, Alistair/Anora, Riordan, the allied representatives all sit down and figure out what the hell the planned march is.

Have you ever had to deal with an emergency? The usual plan is not run out randomly and hope for the best.

And even if they did make your superplan of having all the archers and mages attack the archdemon similtanously there was the issue of the huge horde of darkspawn burning down your capital city. You also are expecting Riordan to have gone "No, I'll pass up what may be the only to force the archdemon to the ground so i can think of a good plan"

I'm expecting Riordan to have come up with a good plan. Throwing yourself off buildings is not a good plan. Here's something you can try: have your friend drive his car at 40 km/hr and try to jump off a tree on it. Count the number of times you don't die.

[In Exile]

Face of Evil wrote...

So in other words, to fit your idea of "leadership," the main character needs to sit through strategy sessions, conduct meetings between allies, pore over maps and decide on plans of attack, etc.

Well, you were looking for something the game is not, which is an action-oriented RPG. And that's no more a fault of Dragon Age than complaining about the lack of fishing in Grand Slam Tennis.

What are you talking about? All of these are story moments. When you're governing Vigil's Keep in Awakening, is that action-RPG? When you had the stronghold in NWN2 and managed the Crossroad Keep, including the troop placements in the battle at the keep, was that an action RPG?

We are arguing about what portrayal would show leadership. Going around and canvasing for allies is not leadership to me. Legitimately leading, making decisions, managing egoes and relationships, that is leadership. But Bioware was never centered around making a game like that, so at best you can say these things happen off-screen if they happen at all.

I don't agree with any of your arguments, but I see no point in debating this further.

Well, certainly.

[MKDAWUSS]

Riordan could have easily mistimed his jump.





Also, what really strikes me as curious is to why the AD didn't pull away from the Fort Drakon rooftop when things started to turn ugly. He could clearly fly about from point to point.

[yummysoap]

I didn't follow DA prior to its release, so when the guy was all like "I am Duncan" I couldn't stop laughing because I just think Duncan is a hilariously silly name.



Dude's pretty cool, though. Shame he went and died.