43 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

So she knows that Morrigan knows how she extends her lifespan (which points to Morrigan not having just discovered it in the grimoire but might not mean Morrigan's lying about how it is done) and 'knows' she lied to you even before you tell her what Morrigan told you? Is she psychic now?

Probably... that, or she's just a nutty old bat!

My assumption here would be that Flemeth is convinced that the player has been lied to until she's actually told what Morrigan told you. So when you say that you know how she extends her lifespan without actually saying how, she dismisses it as Morrigan having tricked the player.

[Zjarcal]

EDIT: Aghh, double post.

@Krytheos:

Sorry, it's a shame indeed how you console players have no option to fix the many dialog issues in the game.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 09 août 2010 - 03:50 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So she knows that Morrigan knows how she extends her lifespan (which points to Morrigan not having just discovered it in the grimoire but might not mean Morrigan's lying about how it is done) and 'knows' she lied to you even before you tell her what Morrigan told you? Is she psychic now?

Probably... that, or she's just a nutty old bat!

My assumption here would be that Flemeth is convinced that the player has been lied to until she's actually told what Morrigan told you. So when you say that you know how she extends her lifespan without actually saying how, she dismisses it as Morrigan having tricked the player.

And Flemeth seemed to know what Morrigan found out when you tell her that you were sent to kill her for a good reason.

See, if only there was some "answer the damn question" option...

[Zjarcal]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

See, if only there was some "answer the damn question" option...

If you told Flemeth that she'd probably say, "oh, but a damned question requires a damned answer and what good would that be, hahaha!".

Modifié par Zjarcal, 09 août 2010 - 03:57 .

[Sarah1281]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So she knows that Morrigan knows how she extends her lifespan (which points to Morrigan not having just discovered it in the grimoire but might not mean Morrigan's lying about how it is done) and 'knows' she lied to you even before you tell her what Morrigan told you? Is she psychic now?

Probably... that, or she's just a nutty old bat!

My assumption here would be that Flemeth is convinced that the player has been lied to until she's actually told what Morrigan told you. So when you say that you know how she extends her lifespan without actually saying how, she dismisses it as Morrigan having tricked the player.

And Flemeth seemed to know what Morrigan found out when you tell her that you were sent to kill her for a good reason.

See, if only there was some "answer the damn question" option...

I'd say that if Morrigan is telling the truth about the body snatching she didn't find out from the grimoire and knew beforehand. She just didn't think that you could help her until you pulled off the miracle grimoire recovery. She had to wait a little while before asking you so she could claim she just found out otherwise it raises all sorts of questions like why Flemeth risked sending Morrigan or why Morrigan's telling you this now. Morrigan either believes there's no escape from her mother or that she won't be possessed because of the OGB (which could be part of why she wants it so badly) and either finds something else in the grimoire that make her want her mother dead or maybe she just doesn't like the idea of being the daughter or someone who has a long history of stealing her daughters' bodies and sees you as a chance to make an escape and prepare herself before Flemeth can recover.

[Alyka]

I don't really know who to believe.Both could be lying.The question is; who planted the fake Grimoire in the Circle of Magi?

Because whoever did it was either sabotaging the other (exposing or lying to make Flemeth look bad. ie: taking over a body) or Morrigan was trying to make it look like Flemeth was trying hide her real Grimoire or Morrigan was telling the truth and Flemeth didn't want her to find out.

And Flemeth is nutty so she might say stuff that isn't true just to amuse herself and she's able to shapeshift so she can listen in on other people's conversations.She's probably psychic too.That whole "I don't know" act don't fool me like when she said she doesn't know much about blights.She's been around for a couple of centuries, she knows. <_<

Modifié par Alyka, 09 août 2010 - 07:21 .

[Sarah1281]

Alyka wrote...

I don't really know who to believe.Both could be lying.The question is; who planted the fake Grimoire in the Circle of Magi?

Because whoever did it was either sabotaging the other (exposing or lying to make Flemeth look bad. ie: taking over a body) or Morrigan was trying to make it look like Flemeth was trying hide her real Grimoire or Morrigan was telling the truth and Flemeth didn't want her to find out.

And Flemeth is nutty so she might say stuff that isn't true just to amuse herself and she's able to shapeshift so she can listen in on other people's conversations.She's probably psychic too.That whole "I don't know" act don't fool me like when she said she doesn't know much about blights.She's been around for a couple of centuries, she knows. <_<

I don't think it was a fake grimoire. Morrigan said that Flemeth didn't really need it, hence she didn't track it down. She was just annoyed a Templar took it. No one but Morrigan can read the grimoire. We have no idea what's inside it but no reason to doubt it's authenticity.

[Alyka]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Alyka wrote...

I don't really know who to believe.Both could be lying.The question is; who planted the fake Grimoire in the Circle of Magi?

Because whoever did it was either sabotaging the other (exposing or lying to make Flemeth look bad. ie: taking over a body) or Morrigan was trying to make it look like Flemeth was trying hide her real Grimoire or Morrigan was telling the truth and Flemeth didn't want her to find out.

And Flemeth is nutty so she might say stuff that isn't true just to amuse herself and she's able to shapeshift so she can listen in on other people's conversations.She's probably psychic too.That whole "I don't know" act don't fool me like when she said she doesn't know much about blights.She's been around for a couple of centuries, she knows. <_<

I don't think it was a fake grimoire. Morrigan said that Flemeth didn't really need it, hence she didn't track it down. She was just annoyed a Templar took it. No one but Morrigan can read the grimoire. We have no idea what's inside it but no reason to doubt it's authenticity.

Yeah true.But,notice how Morrigan refers to "Flemeth's Grimoire" as the "real" Grimoire when you give it to her.Also, notice how the Black Grimoire is black and the tree on Flemeth's Grimoire is gray.Like the color of their hair...... >.>.And the description for Flemeth's Grimoire makes me think the other one is a fake.Maybe it's a hint that the Black Grimoire is Morrigan's? The Templar bit could be a ruse too.And since only Morrigan can read the Grimoire she could lie to the PC.
I don't know. I'm speculating. lol

Modifié par Alyka, 09 août 2010 - 07:54 .

[Sarah1281]

To what end, though? She wouldn't have been able to plant it upon joining you and before then why would she need to?

[Alyka]

Sarah1281 wrote...

To what end, though? She wouldn't have been able to plant it upon joining you and before then why would she need to?

No.But she could have let the Templar take it to the tower on purpose.She reveals that the reason why Flemeth sent her with you was because of the Dark Ritual.She could have planted the Grimoire just to further her goal.

[Bahlgan]

I can't completely trust either one of them, but my meter of judgment is relaying further towards Morrigan's alignment than Flemeth's. Perhaps I am wrong though; perhaps they are both working together against my Warden, perhaps not. I never shall make my final judgment until I learn more. But if you all wish for me to guess, I suppose that Morrigan is telling the truth, but not in the same fashion as she would have you understand.

[Nerevar-as]

One of Flemeth´s answers is telling you she guesses Morrigan has learned something that makes her think she must defend herself. Always took it as implication Morrigan had said the truth about Flemeth. And Flemeth´s attitude makes it clear she is not dying anyway. I walked away thinking she had thrown the fight.

[Big I]

Krytheos wrote...

FFFFUUUUUUU-- Ugh. I hate that, really I
do. I know the PC version is superior, but my PC is complete and utter
rubbish. Makes that whole 'killing Flemeth' thing unnecessary then, for
my Mage, since she would keep the Grimoire to herself. But of course. D:
Sigh.

I've never done it, but it's apparently possible to trigger the "I'm keeping the grimoire  line" if you return it to Morrigan and aren't in a relationship with her.  However, I may be wrong as I have no first hand knowledge of this, and I don't believe it actually allows you to keep the grimoire, merely draw out the conversation.

My read on the situation is that the body snatching thing is not true, or that if it is it forms the basis of a much more complex interaction between the two than we are told. I belive that Morrigan duped the Warden into killing Flemeth so that she wouldn't have to share the old god baby, or merely to usurp her mother's power.

There are two conversations I find particularly interesting about Morrigan:

1) Shale and Morrigan have a conversation where Shale points out that since only Morrigan can read the book from the tower, there's no way of verifying what it actually says ("It could be a History, or a Book of Recipes").

2) If you confront Flemeth about the body snatching, she laughs and says "it is a song Flemeth has heard many times before, and even sung once or twice", indicating that this is a common tactic in conflicts between herself and Morrigan/her other daughters (find an ally and dupe them into attacking her).

So, this being the case, and Morrigan being completey untrustworthy, and Flemeth being responisble for saving the Warden at Ostagar, unless I'm romancing Morrigan I always let Flemeth live.

[Sarah1281]

Telling Morrigan you're going to keep the grimoire seems to me to be the stupidest thing to do in that situation. Not only might you not be a mage and if you aren't you can't read it anyway, but if you're giong to keep it anyway why tell her? She may steal it back from you whereas if you say it wasn't there then she'll assume Flemeth knew she was coming and moved it.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Sarah1281 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So she knows that Morrigan knows how she extends her lifespan (which points to Morrigan not having just discovered it in the grimoire but might not mean Morrigan's lying about how it is done) and 'knows' she lied to you even before you tell her what Morrigan told you? Is she psychic now?

Probably... that, or she's just a nutty old bat!

My assumption here would be that Flemeth is convinced that the player has been lied to until she's actually told what Morrigan told you. So when you say that you know how she extends her lifespan without actually saying how, she dismisses it as Morrigan having tricked the player.

And Flemeth seemed to know what Morrigan found out when you tell her that you were sent to kill her for a good reason.

See, if only there was some "answer the damn question" option...

I'd say that if Morrigan is telling the truth about the body snatching she didn't find out from the grimoire and knew beforehand. She just didn't think that you could help her until you pulled off the miracle grimoire recovery. She had to wait a little while before asking you so she could claim she just found out otherwise it raises all sorts of questions like why Flemeth risked sending Morrigan or why Morrigan's telling you this now. Morrigan either believes there's no escape from her mother or that she won't be possessed because of the OGB (which could be part of why she wants it so badly) and either finds something else in the grimoire that make her want her mother dead or maybe she just doesn't like the idea of being the daughter or someone who has a long history of stealing her daughters' bodies and sees you as a chance to make an escape and prepare herself before Flemeth can recover.

Yeah I agree, and if you don't do the DR she is "at court in Orlais" which is very PRO chantry what better ally to fight a near immortal abomination than the Divine of Orlais.

[MKDAWUSS]

One thing I'd like to know is why First Enchanter Irving kept it in his office. Was he trying to decipher and interpret the grimoire to advance his own agenda?





As for whether or not she knew, I think she suspected at most, but the grimoire essentially confirmed it. You do have to admit, Morrigan does know more than she lets on, the OGB/DR being the other example. Another thing to consider is that you can kinda probe Morrigan into why she all of a sudden wanted to find Flemeth's Grimoire when you trigger the quest inside the Circle Tower.

[Homebound]

I think the most important thing to remember about this whole fiasco is that, in the end, Morrigan is her mother's daughter.