132 réponses à ce sujet

[Throw_this_away]

Lest just skip personal opinions (there will be no end to this...) and stick with facts.



FACT: ME2 is better than ME1 in every way.

[Whatever42]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Lest just skip personal opinions (there will be no end to this...) and stick with facts.

FACT: ME2 is better than ME1 in every way.

That is a very good idea, Throw.

FACT: My opinion is superiour to all others because I am smarter, have better taste, and am far, far prettier than any of you.

[DarthCaine]

The only FACT there is, is that the majority thinks ME2 is better than ME1

[bjdbwea]

It is a fact that you don't have prove for that.

[DarthCaine]

bjdbwea wrote...

It is a fact that you don't have prove for that.

Sure I do: (and it's proof, not prove)

http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/4081/

GameSpot User Scores:
ME1: 9.1 360, 8.9 PC
ME2: 9.4 360, 9.2 PC
(you can check other sites if you want, in every last one ME2 has a higher user score)

Sales

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 août 2010 - 02:02 .

[Fixers0]

FACY: in my country there is freedom of speech and everybody's opinion is counted equal.

Modifié par Fixers0, 17 août 2010 - 02:10 .

[Terror_K]

Because as we all know, the majority are always right. The majority certainly aren't made up of mostly idiots.

[Whatever42]

DarthCaine wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

It is a fact that you don't have prove for that.

Sure I do: (and it's proof, not prove)

http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/
http://social.biowar...596/polls/4081/

GameSpot User Scores:
ME1: 9.1 360, 8.9 PC
ME2: 9.4 360, 9.2 PC
(you can check other sites if you want, in every last one ME2 has a higher user score)

Sales

They will contest your facts entered into evidence and will summon expert witness testimony (themselves) to explain that these figures include "shooter fans", a reprehensible sub-strata of society whose opinions we must completely disregard. The only opinions that matter are "elite RPG gamers" who, of course, include the expert witnesses and any other gamers designated by them. All others are considered to be the unwashed masses who enjoy "dumbed down" games and who cannot be taken seriously.

Or they will just say that you're wrong and they're right. But they can't be right because I am clearly right.

[DarthCaine]

It doesn't matter. My FACT was that the majority prefer it over ME1. Whether shooter fans or RPG fans prefer it doesn't matter. Just because you disagree, doesn't make them idiots.

There'll always be a vocal minority that b!tch about Avatar, but the FACT is the majority love it. Whether they are 12 years old or 60 years old makes no difference.

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 août 2010 - 02:23 .

[Whatever42]

Fixers0 wrote...

FACY: in my country there is freedom of speech and everybody's opinion is counted equal.

Totally untrue. Everyone is entitled to state their opinion but not everyone's opinion is counted equal, not even remotely. 

[bjdbwea]

The fact remains: You don't have proof as to what the majority thinks. For that, you would need to ask each and every buyer of the game, or at least conduct a scientifically relevant poll among them. That's why the political poll numbers you see on TV aren't done by collecting a few numbers from random web sites. At best you have a majority on each of the sites you mentioned.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 17 août 2010 - 02:25 .

[ODST 5723]

Dem_B wrote...

I agree with the fact that the basic plot of ME2 was not quite good.
ME2 was "Gather the team", but the basic storyline was as a supplement to this.
Of course we can say that ME1 was "Go after Saren" but I have not been this Impressions.
In ME2 was no keys moment. In ME1 it was a conversation with the Sovereign on Virmire.
In ME2 were very dramatic moments but after the passage, I had mixed feelings, I could not affirmatively say that it is a masterpiece, but i can not say it is bad.
Despite the fact that in the final the whole team can die, in general can be said that Shepard won again, but i would like to see not only the victory.
Undoubtedly ME3 will few surprises, but Shepard necessarily will the win the Reapers.
Reapers Technologies accumulated over millions of years, but Shepard are relatively easy victory. It was impossible to save everyone in ME1 (Virmire), but in ME2 can destroy the all Collectors base station and no one in team will die, as in a fairy tale.
Plot ME2 would be better if this part of the Reaper won, and the fight would not seem so easy.
I believe that the basic plot ME2 worse than ME1, but some moments in ME2 cause me more impressions.

ME2's lack of a key moment is due to the dramatically different way they progressed the story.  ME1 is more of a chase-driven story where you're one step behind the villain.  You know who the villain is from the first mission and you spend the rest of the time tracking him across the universe in order to stop him from doing whatever it is he's trying to do.  You're not sure what he's after until Virmire.  Which shifts the tone of the story completely.  You're left with a sense that you've won the first of a much grander battle to come, but that you've only bought some time and that you'll need to be ready and it seems like the galaxy will unite against a common foe.

ME2 doesn't have that chase dynamic and the opening sets the tone of the previous story on its head.  You lose 2 whole years of preparation and the universe goes on without you and is just as splintered as it ever was.  Your enemy isn't known until the second mission and their purpose isn't known until the final mission.  You're left with speculation as to their motives and given some insight into their race as you unlock the mystery as to what's really going on.  You're fighting against a mysterious group rather than focused on a specific individual (Saren).  There is no lieutenant to track down (Benezia) or ancient evil (The Thorian) who made a deal with the main villain.  Instead, you've got a seemingly unstoppable enemy and absolutely no backup beyond an organization that opposed you in the previous game and the team you can assemble for what is most certainly a suicide mission.  As you build your team and their loyalty you either grow closer to or further from them.  Depending on who survives the battle, you're left with a varying sense of hope tempered with uneasiness and dread as the real fight still has not begun as it seems you will finally come face to face with the real enemy rather than just their agents and puppets. 

Just because it is possible to save your entire team, do not mistake this lacking emotional punch.  It still packs plenty if you're not going out of your way to game the system to ensure a particular outcome and for those who do lose squad mates on the final mission, depending on who they lost, how and how close they were attached to the character this could have a lot more impact than the Virmire decision.  While you can save everyone, you can also lose almost your everyone on your team and this can give you a "won by the skin of our teeth" plot point that could set up the tension for the next game.

[DarthCaine]

bjdbwea wrote...

The fact remains: You don't have proof as to what the majority thinks. For that, you would need to ask each and every buyer of the game, or at least conduct a scientifically relevant poll among them. That's why the political poll numbers you see on TV aren't done by collecting a few numbers from random web sites. At best you have a majority on each of the sites you mentioned.

Political polls are done by selecting a number of people and is how the majority is determined.

Is 15 000 people not enough for you?

You just don't want to admit it, and nothing I say will persuade you because you're biased and prefer to stay arrogant

Modifié par DarthCaine, 17 août 2010 - 02:38 .

[Whatever42]

bjdbwea wrote...

The fact remains: You don't have proof as to what the majority thinks. For that, you would need to ask each and every buyer of the game, or at least conduct a scientifically relevant poll among them. That's why the political poll numbers you see on TV aren't done by collecting a few numbers from random web sites. At best you have a majority on each of the sites you mentioned.

A train was rumbling down the tracks in Scotland with 3 statisticians aboard. One of them looked out the window and saw a black sheep grazing on a hillside.

"Aha!" he declared. "From this I can conclude that all sheep in Scotland are black!"

"No, no!" said the second. "From that, you can only conclude that at least one sheep in Scotland is black."

"Not at all!" exclaimed the third. "From what we can see, we can only conclude that at least one half of one sheep in Scotland is black."

[Lapetus]

MassEffect762 wrote...

This won't end well. lol.

LOL
Called at the second post. We never learn, do we. I love it.

[The Mythical Magician]

Majority doesn't mean anything, thats like saying Modern Warfare 2 is better than any other game out there because the majority of players are playing it more compared to any other game out there yet it is a flawed/glitchy/bland game compared to the original.

[kalle90]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
They will contest your facts entered into evidence and will summon expert witness testimony (themselves) to explain that these figures include "shooter fans", a reprehensible sub-strata of society whose opinions we must completely disregard. The only opinions that matter are "elite RPG gamers" who, of course, include the expert witnesses and any other gamers designated by them. All others are considered to be the unwashed masses who enjoy "dumbed down" games and who cannot be taken seriously.

Which is true in that Bioware could turn ME3 into a fighting, multiplayer FPS or GTA-like sandbox game and as long as it's high quality, reviewers and players will give it a high score even though they say "the change of style is a bit weird" in the first paragraph. Reviewers and casual gamers judge games as standalone experiences while atleast I take the other parts of the series in picture too.

If anything it's obvious way too many people prefer ME1 over ME2. From Bioware's perspective that is.

[Dem_B]

I agree with the fact that ME2 was successful in terms of gameplay, it's true.
I was just shocked possibility of instant save games quicksave F5 (PC) without interrupting the game is not for a second, it's just amazing.
Many people write ME2 lost most of the RPG. What was the little weapons, armor, equipment.
But all the weapons and equipment in ME2 were unique and it is definite plus.
But also want to note that improvements have become just mindlessly to come and push the button "Develop improved". I would like to slightly change the approach certainly does not need a lot of essentially unnecessary improvements, but I would like to choose path of development, ship, weapons, armor.

Make a few ways to improve Normandy: Heavy attacking frigate or hidden infiltrate ship having a super stealth system.
But certainly not to make space combat (no space combat in ME3) with the use of this. Use as it was in the final ME2.

I like the Geths pulse rifle, but it has a big impact. After the development of improvements to make it more comfortable.
Or create a lethal sniper rifle from anywhere sniper rifle.

I'm staying my opinion the main plot ME2 is too predictable, but some moments (not main plot) is very very dramatic.

Modifié par Dem_B, 18 août 2010 - 08:54 .

[MajesticJazz]

Mass Effect 1 = Going to an Opera

Mass Effect 2 = Going to a Death Metal concert

[MrnDvlDg161]

Interesting conversation.

A few things were missing although some may have breathed a sigh of relief and  that was the departure of the Mako vehicle.  It wasn't really that great --- you couldn't tweak it and you only had 2 weapons for it...sadly enough it was sometimes more practicle to leave the damn thing because it became a death trap.

So in ME2... they listen and get rid of it.  The replacement? An incredibly boring mining system that took too long in my opinion and it made ME2 drag on. I don't mind a long game but if your boasting  x number of playing hours and I find its because you made a rediculously slow procress to get it...thats not something you should be advertising as good.

It would have been faster to hop into the Mako, find the damn ore and flag it.  Sad but true. I liked the landscapes and the planet backdrops of ME1 with the Mako but it made the place seem empty. Too redundant.  If they kept the model and just added more life and background it would have been a better option.

ME2 has a better character cache. They have a bettter dramatic build up of who they are and why they found themsevles recruited for a dangerous mission. Excellent job. The problem is, its obvious to me that they put the full fledged talents into this portion but let the main story go astray and to fill that void, they changed the action parts some what.

ME1, people complained about tedious micro-management needs in terms of items you found after battles. Ok. They listiend. So now you had a more simplied modication process but it was based on the dreary mining portion to get there.

ME2 --- bad character dump. Totally tossed a lot of hard work from the 1st one out the window and wiped the slate clean. This didn't go well for folks who were attached to  Ashley/Liara.  It also made problems because its obvious it was a patch work job due to new ideas being brought in and other things not assosisated with perserving the sancity of the story.  This negative aspect was filled with the previous plus of an improved group of characters to get immsersed in.


ME1, by in large, the world was like a spring cleaned house.  The presidum was eloquent. Even the Ward shops were pretty pristine and almost too perfect.  In ME2, you got a more beilevable background, especially with the Omega mining station. Gritty. Crime ridden. Gangsters.  Merc wars.  You saw the devistation of the Krogan homeworld.  Even Illum had this undercurrent of bad news bubbling from its seemingly clean grates.  People were more darker.  You had more reneage like tactics you had to use instead of the constant  Mr. Rodgers approach you did in ME1.  ME2 even started off with a bad taste in your mouth with the destruction of the ship, scattering of the crew,  lost loves,  and broken down characters that were once full of vibrant life in ME1.  Even the Consort Madam had to leave because of shoddy utility work in her old office building.

I liked that. It was a dose of good fashioned realism for a Sci-Fi world.  The good. The bad. The ugly.  It just it also came with some negative aspects like the down grading of  Anderson.  How C-Sec was sort of like an abusive police force or how when you went back to the citidel, it was sort of like being funneled through a homeland security cattle hold at the local airport.  Lots of tension in the air.  Talk about crime. When you were in ME1, the place was clean and C-Sec looked liked the insides of a 5 star hotel.  When I visited the Citidel... i didn't want to go back because it became a depressing place.  I even grimaced at the idea of having to return for more missions. The place was just a flotilla of garbage and government abuse.  The old Irish 30's cop at the Captain's desk instilled the mood too.  Made me consider my choice again about letting the early council's ship get destroyed but.... hey its the way it goes.

The good cop/bad cop senario was also present in ME2. It wasn't just you being good all the time.  Shepard cut corners. Used his name to get discounts at stores.  Bloodied people to get info.  Didn't do that in ME1. 

My consensus of it all is that  ME2 is the middle portion of the story and just like every trilogy I've ever read or experinced, the middle book/movie/game is always the hardest to pull off because most writers are either good at a few things.  They can write a great begining but they screw up the end or their good at writing the middle portion but they can't seem to tie the loose ends for a final product.

So I treat it as such. ME2 is like the Empire Strikes Back episode. You either hated it or wanted to see the next part when it came.  I liked both games for the different positives and negatives they gave, its just a continuation of a single game only broken into 3 parts....or more.

All in all... damn good RPG/Action game. Waitied for a game like this for a looooong while --- not only was it free of that cliche Anime character stuff but it has a solid story despite some flaws and its a game people like me in the 90's always wanted. A little bit of  Star Flight, Privateer, space soap opera with a twist of DS9 and Serenity.

[Epic777]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Interesting conversation.

A few things were missing although some may have breathed a sigh of relief and  that was the departure of the Mako vehicle.  It wasn't really that great --- you couldn't tweak it and you only had 2 weapons for it...sadly enough it was sometimes more practicle to leave the damn thing because it became a death trap.

So in ME2... they listen and get rid of it.  The replacement? An incredibly boring mining system that took too long in my opinion and it made ME2 drag on. I don't mind a long game but if your boasting  x number of playing hours and I find its because you made a rediculously slow procress to get it...thats not something you should be advertising as good.

It would have been faster to hop into the Mako, find the damn ore and flag it.  Sad but true. I liked the landscapes and the planet backdrops of ME1 with the Mako but it made the place seem empty. Too redundant.  If they kept the model and just added more life and background it would have been a better option.

ME2 has a better character cache. They have a bettter dramatic build up of who they are and why they found themsevles recruited for a dangerous mission. Excellent job. The problem is, its obvious to me that they put the full fledged talents into this portion but let the main story go astray and to fill that void, they changed the action parts some what.

ME1, people complained about tedious micro-management needs in terms of items you found after battles. Ok. They listiend. So now you had a more simplied modication process but it was based on the dreary mining portion to get there.

ME2 --- bad character dump. Totally tossed a lot of hard work from the 1st one out the window and wiped the slate clean. This didn't go well for folks who were attached to  Ashley/Liara.  It also made problems because its obvious it was a patch work job due to new ideas being brought in and other things not assosisated with perserving the sancity of the story.  This negative aspect was filled with the previous plus of an improved group of characters to get immsersed in.


ME1, by in large, the world was like a spring cleaned house.  The presidum was eloquent. Even the Ward shops were pretty pristine and almost too perfect.  In ME2, you got a more beilevable background, especially with the Omega mining station. Gritty. Crime ridden. Gangsters.  Merc wars.  You saw the devistation of the Krogan homeworld.  Even Illum had this undercurrent of bad news bubbling from its seemingly clean grates.  People were more darker.  You had more reneage like tactics you had to use instead of the constant  Mr. Rodgers approach you did in ME1.  ME2 even started off with a bad taste in your mouth with the destruction of the ship, scattering of the crew,  lost loves,  and broken down characters that were once full of vibrant life in ME1.  Even the Consort Madam had to leave because of shoddy utility work in her old office building.

I liked that. It was a dose of good fashioned realism for a Sci-Fi world.  The good. The bad. The ugly.  It just it also came with some negative aspects like the down grading of  Anderson.  How C-Sec was sort of like an abusive police force or how when you went back to the citidel, it was sort of like being funneled through a homeland security cattle hold at the local airport.  Lots of tension in the air.  Talk about crime. When you were in ME1, the place was clean and C-Sec looked liked the insides of a 5 star hotel.  When I visited the Citidel... i didn't want to go back because it became a depressing place.  I even grimaced at the idea of having to return for more missions. The place was just a flotilla of garbage and government abuse.  The old Irish 30's cop at the Captain's desk instilled the mood too.  Made me consider my choice again about letting the early council's ship get destroyed but.... hey its the way it goes.

The good cop/bad cop senario was also present in ME2. It wasn't just you being good all the time.  Shepard cut corners. Used his name to get discounts at stores.  Bloodied people to get info.  Didn't do that in ME1. 

My consensus of it all is that  ME2 is the middle portion of the story and just like every trilogy I've ever read or experinced, the middle book/movie/game is always the hardest to pull off because most writers are either good at a few things.  They can write a great begining but they screw up the end or their good at writing the middle portion but they can't seem to tie the loose ends for a final product.

So I treat it as such. ME2 is like the Empire Strikes Back episode. You either hated it or wanted to see the next part when it came.  I liked both games for the different positives and negatives they gave, its just a continuation of a single game only broken into 3 parts....or more.

All in all... damn good RPG/Action game. Waitied for a game like this for a looooong while --- not only was it free of that cliche Anime character stuff but it has a solid story despite some flaws and its a game people like me in the 90's always wanted. A little bit of  Star Flight, Privateer, space soap opera with a twist of DS9 and Serenity.

Two things I did like about me2 story: one avoids the planets of hats and finally gives the intention of the reapers (procreate). The main thing its misses is a central villain like saren

[DarthCaine]

MajesticJazz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 = Going to an Opera
Mass Effect 2 = Going to a Death Metal concert

So ME1 is boring and a small number of people love it while ME2 is too loud but good and more people love it ?

Modifié par DarthCaine, 18 août 2010 - 09:51 .

[Auts]

Storywise, ME1 is beter imo. However, ME2 improved core gameplay by far (got rid of hideous inventory system, improved combat alot, and mako is gone!)

Make made those uncharted worlds look big, but lets be honest, they all looked the same, just different rocks here and there. In ME2 there were that gid awfull minerall mining, but patch has made it a bit better.

Overall I like ME2 more, since the core gameplay went forward. Hopefully they can improve story and get rid of mineral mining in ME3

[MajesticJazz]

DarthCaine wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 = Going to an Opera
Mass Effect 2 = Going to a Death Metal concert

So ME1 is boring and a small number of people love it while ME2 is too loud but good and more people love it ?

No, Opera in that Mass Effect was presented with more of a classic style while ME2 was going for the more rugged baddazz vibe.

In all, Mass Effect 1 had the better story and when it comes to RPGs, thats what really matters. But then again ME2 wasn't really an RPG so....

[Shadow_broker]

MajesticJazz wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 = Going to an Opera
Mass Effect 2 = Going to a Death Metal concert

So ME1 is boring and a small number of people love it while ME2 is too loud but good and more people love it ?

No, Opera in that Mass Effect was presented with more of a classic style while ME2 was going for the more rugged baddazz vibe.

In all, Mass Effect 1 had the better story and when it comes to RPGs, thats what really matters. But then again ME2 wasn't really an RPG so....

Aren't you the guy who tried to argue everyone hates jacob cause he's black?

Leave fargut, NOW!