163 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Skyblade012 wrote...

The Mattock overpowers pretty much every other weapon in the game. Stat-wise, it shares the closest similarity to the Viper Sniper rifle. It just has improved damage, ammo, rate of fire, stability, and accuracy. The trade off is a scope. The scope isn't worth that much, grab the Mattock.

Just a bit more detail and a small correction. The Mattock has worse damage per shot and worse accuracy than the Viper.

The Viper does 81.9 damage per shot, Mattock does 50.4 (taken from the wiki). Mattock has higher dps because of its rate of fire.

It has noticably worse accuracy than the Viper before the accuracy upgrade, afterwards it's almost the same. It seems the Mattock is indeed more stable. However, because of the Viper's low rate of fire this doesn't actually mean anything.

As I was told in another thread, you get 11 ammo per (small) clip for Mattock and 4 for Viper. I haven't double-checked this, but if it is true that makes the Mattock more ammo efficient than the Viper.

Conclusion: I also recommend the Mattock

Modifié par termokanden, 12 août 2010 - 05:50 .

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

Mattock has less effective ammo than the Viper. It has less damage than the Viper. It has higher DPS but only if you're rapid firing it, and a Vanguard doesn't have Adrenaline Rush to make that 12 mouse clicks a second so easily achievable (you have to exceed 6 clicks per second to beat the Viper).

The 'less effective ammo' issue is dubious at best. It's true the Mattock doesn't do as much damage per shot on paper - but then again, the Viper doesn't benefit from the 2x modifier for use at point-blank range. On a class that spends as much time at that kind of range, a weapon that gains that bonus and can double up as an effective medium-long range gun is pretty useful.

To be honest, the only real weakness the Mattock has is it's ammo supply, which isn't even that bad.

[OniGanon]

If you're using the Mattock at close range on a Vanguard, you're doing it wrong.

[Skyblade012]

OniGanon wrote...

If you're using the Mattock at close range on a Vanguard, you're doing it wrong.

If you're using the Vanguard not at close range, you're doing it wrong.

Charge is your main skill for a reason.

[OniGanon]

The whole point of taking the Mattock (or Viper) is to have a weapon to deal with the situations that can't or shouldn't be dealt with using Charge.

[Valdan777]

I kill a scion up close faster hipfiring a viper then I do with my scimitar.

[OniGanon]

That's not entirely surprising. But switch to your Carnifex next time.

[Arhka]

OniGanon wrote...

That's not entirely surprising. But switch to your Carnifex next time.

Viper still has a higher DPS vs armor due to its ROF. Carnifex criticals are random, and are not dependable.

[OniGanon]

Close range bonus should more than compensate; the crits are just cake.



Besides, it's better to waste pistol ammo than sniper ammo.

[Arhka]

This is true. I just hate the inefficency the Carnifex has. Sometimes run out of ammo at the worst times. That's why I like the Predator. Perfect clip size and ROF to perform the reload trick with powers.

Modifié par Arhka, 12 août 2010 - 07:16 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Arhka wrote...

This is true. I just hate the inefficency the Carnifex has. Sometimes run out of ammo at the worst times. That's why I like the Predator. Perfect clip size and ROF to perform the reload trick with powers.

Both the Carnifex and Predator can be used with reload trick - with an Adept you can spam singularities every clip. Very effective against (helpless) Scions and Harby.

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

The whole point of taking the Mattock (or Viper) is to have a weapon to deal with the situations that can't or shouldn't be dealt with using Charge.

Shouldn't? Who said anything about choosing a weapon that 'shouldn't' be used in Charge?

The point behind choosing the mattock is that you get a rifle that can *both* function as a long range piece *and* function well enough at very short range. Going for the Viper effectively forces you to use it purely for long range fighting no matter what your ammo supply or your situation is.

The fact that you can't use it at short range is a characteristic of the viper, not the choice.

[AntiChri5]

OniGanon wrote...

If you're using the Mattock at close range on a Vanguard, you're doing it wrong.

Sometimes i cant be bothered changing weapon.

Charging with the Mattock can be pretty fun.

[LPPrince]

If you want to see The Mattock used point blank by a Vanguard-



You're welcome, community.

[JaegerBane]

LPPrince wrote...

If you want to see The Mattock used point blank by a Vanguard-

You're welcome, community.

At the very least, that shows it's hardly a terrible weapon to use while Charging.

[LPPrince]

JaegerBane wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

If you want to see The Mattock used point blank by a Vanguard-

You're welcome, community.

At the very least, that shows it's hardly a terrible weapon to use while Charging.

Definitely.

[AntiChri5]

I had more fun Mattock charging than Claymore charging.

[LPPrince]

AntiChri5 wrote...

I had more fun Mattock charging than Claymore charging.

I've been rolling with the three Firepower weapons, and when I charge, I charge with the GPS.

I'll charge it up, biotic charge someone, shoot the person next to them, and while they're down, charge up again and then blast their faces off.

Mattock charging is fun, but GPS charging is just pure annihilation.

[AntiChri5]

LPPrince wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

I had more fun Mattock charging than Claymore charging.

I've been rolling with the three Firepower weapons, and when I charge, I charge with the GPS.

I'll charge it up, biotic charge someone, shoot the person next to them, and while they're down, charge up again and then blast their faces off.

Mattock charging is fun, but GPS charging is just pure annihilation.

Oh i know.

I just hated the Claymore.

[Arhka]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Arhka wrote...

This is true. I just hate the inefficency the Carnifex has. Sometimes run out of ammo at the worst times. That's why I like the Predator. Perfect clip size and ROF to perform the reload trick with powers.

Both the Carnifex and Predator can be used with reload trick - with an Adept you can spam singularities every clip. Very effective against (helpless) Scions and Harby.

I know, but every time I try to do a sequence of power, reload, power, the Carnifex is on it's 4th shot while I've already finished a Predator clip.

[Bozorgmehr]

Arhka wrote...

I know, but every time I try to do a sequence of power, reload, power, the Carnifex is on it's 4th shot while I've already finished a Predator clip.

Predator has better accuracy - it's hard to shoot the Carnifex due to its recoil, but if you can get close enough you can empty a clip before you have to use Singularity again (Harby & Scion). Phalanx is perhaps my favourite HP - love the laser aim

[Arhka]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Arhka wrote...

I know, but every time I try to do a sequence of power, reload, power, the Carnifex is on it's 4th shot while I've already finished a Predator clip.

Predator has better accuracy - it's hard to shoot the Carnifex due to its recoil, but if you can get close enough you can empty a clip before you have to use Singularity again (Harby & Scion). Phalanx is perhaps my favourite HP - love the laser aim

Yes the laser aim is wonderful, but I hate trying to fire the damn thing while I'm moving. Hip-firing for that pistol sucks w/ low ROF. At least it can 2 hit a vorcha at the start of the game.

[LPPrince]

Arhka wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Arhka wrote...

I know, but every time I try to do a sequence of power, reload, power, the Carnifex is on it's 4th shot while I've already finished a Predator clip.

Predator has better accuracy - it's hard to shoot the Carnifex due to its recoil, but if you can get close enough you can empty a clip before you have to use Singularity again (Harby & Scion). Phalanx is perhaps my favourite HP - love the laser aim

Yes the laser aim is wonderful, but I hate trying to fire the damn thing while I'm moving. Hip-firing for that pistol sucks w/ low ROF. At least it can 2 hit a vorcha at the start of the game.

Why would you try to run and gun with the Phalanx? Its the sniper rifle of pistols.

[OniGanon]

JaegerBane wrote...
The point behind choosing the mattock is that you get a rifle that can *both* function as a long range piece *and* function well enough at very short range. Going for the Viper effectively forces you to use it purely for long range fighting no matter what your ammo supply or your situation is.

Why would you need that function, though?

If you're using Charge, you should normally be using a shotgun. If your shotgun ammo is low (should be rare for a Vanguard; even more so after ammo upgrade), you can Charge with an SMG or Heavy Pistol. You have more than enough tools for the short range. It's the long range game where you are lacking.

To that end, the Viper provides a scope and better long range DPS than you're likely to get with a Mattock due to your lack of time dilation (which most people would need to hit the 7ish clicks per second necessary to beat the Viper). And while it's not a great close range weapon, it's good enough to kill the occasional Husk or Varren that's gotten too close for a weapon switch, which is about the only time a Vanguard should be using their long ranged weapon in close quarters.

If you're really worried that you'll be rapidly switching between needing long and short range power, just use your damn Locust.

[JaegerBane]

OniGanon wrote...

If you're using Charge, you should normally be using a shotgun. If your shotgun ammo is low (should be rare for a Vanguard; even more so after ammo upgrade), you can Charge with an SMG or Heavy Pistol. You have more than enough tools for the short range. It's the long range game where you are lacking.

To that end, the Viper provides a scope and better long range DPS than you're likely to get with a Mattock due to your lack of time dilation (which most people would need to hit the 7ish clicks per second necessary to beat the Viper). And while it's not a great close range weapon, it's good enough to kill the occasional Husk or Varren that's gotten too close for a weapon switch, which is about the only time a Vanguard should be using their long ranged weapon in close quarters.

If you're really worried that you'll be rapidly switching between needing long and short range power, just use your damn Locust.

OniGanon, I'm not sure I'm understanding your point here.

From what I've read so far, you appear to be saying that, on a class that primarily fights at short range, it's a better idea to take a specialised long range weapon that happens to function in a minimal fashion at short range.... rather than a weapon that effectively functions at all ranges.

On a flexible class like the Sentinel I could understand that, but on a class as point-blank orientated as the Vanguard... it just seems a bit sub-optimal.

I'm not sure what relevance the Locust has on the choice - you should be wielding it no matter what you've chosen on a Vanguard.