35 réponses à ce sujet

[luday87]

i want them to talk to me and i want to talk to them and i want them to react to events in the game as much as possible and i want romances

Modifié par luday87, 09 août 2010 - 09:03 .

[kamalpoe]

I'm giving my companions the ability to comment on any quest or companion, via the right click talk. I'm guessing many people won't even notice this is there. They also have triggered one liners and sometimes interrupt in conversation.

Also, why wouldn't your companions be willing to talk in the "Lair of the Demon Lord of the Godslayer" after you've slain the demon? For PoE, I've decided it doesn't matter where you are if you want to talk, you clicked on then and asked them! Altering conversations based on area tag/demon lord death is going to be a significant amount of work, for little benefit (I suspect few people would notice) if you have a decent number of areas. It's a trade off of your time versus perceived benefit to the module.

Modifié par kamalpoe, 10 août 2010 - 12:41 .

[Gilradthegreat]

Initiating dialog with companions? I never did it, even on the OC (incidentally the final battle in the original NWN2 was pretty tough!).



Though I really like it when they comment on conversations already taking place, or any situation where they involve themselves more with the quest.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

Not something I care about at all. I don't talk with them. I don't want them to talk to me. I have no desire to have intra-party romances and I don't see a need to understand the backgrounds. Even if there is some depth to be gained by such conversations, any realism is likely to be spoiled by mistakes in the conversation tree, or grammar, or spelling. Also the more time a developer spends on conversations with a companion the more they are likely to make that companion critical to the game, and that is I think a great mistake.



Regards

[Haplose]

I agree. I prefer to have companions "butt-in" in conversations or comment on current surroundings/quests rather then having to manually explore each of their hidden, unlockable dialog trees to score some points with them/gain some reward.



Actually farming conversations is kinda weird (though it can be really cool if done exceptionally well - Planescape: Torment, Dak'kon and some other characters there *wink, wink*). Probably better not to waste efforts and time on that though.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I adopted the BG2 school of companion talking, where they talk with you, as time passes, in safish locations (which are random, based on the order you do things). My companions are only conversible in terms of punting them from the party.



I like it that way, makes you earn their revelations and, as a super pompous lazy old man, I like the content to be brought to ME rather than the other way around. I dont generally talk to companions in games unless I remember to specifically do so.

[dunniteowl]

What he said. Chatty as I am in RL, I am a pretty quiet adventurer. Hey, I'm roleplaying someone other than me, right?

dunniteowl

Modifié par dunniteowl, 10 août 2010 - 02:03 .

[kamalpoe]

Chaos Wielder wrote...

@ kamalpoe

I'm not saying they won't be able to talk but, really, what sort of options should be available? The difficulty with a conversation option being constantly available is that it ought to fit all the scenes it's in. Let's say my companion likes gardening--just hypothetically--should I be able to ask them about that right before the final battle? What about when we're wandering around in an illithid cave? The problem with general conversation starters, as I see them, is that they're too general.

I'd file that under meh, too much work for a non-pro developer. I mean isn't it the players fault for asking them about gardening in an illithid cave?

If you're doing resting only in safe rest zones, it should be easy to pick that up in the conversation skeleton since it's the same "in a safe area?" check, and have the companion give a "You want to talk about that now? Let's talk when it's safe" default outside of the rest areas.

[Shaughn78]

I like to have a companion conversation that has some dynamic changes to it. There is nothing worse then having all the companion responses remain the same throughout the game. If someone choices to talk to the companions there should be some growth or change. I have made it so comapnions will comment on different companions in the party, sometimes offer information on current area, and general information about the companion that are often opened up by in game invents and that companion happens to be part of the party. So the more you have a companion in the party the more it will open up.



Companions should also jump in and offer their opinion both as seperate companion conversations that start up here and there and jump in conversations with other NPCs (won't really work with SOZ style). I like to create interjhection points in conversations and have each companion have an interjection but only fire off one of them randomly. This may be a bit off topic but with these intejections there is often a influence gain/loss. A larger party will have a larger random pool so influence will be lower with all the companions but a smaller party will have a more drastic effect on influence.



I have several area specific nodes so you don't run into mondane converstions at inappropiate times. While sneaking through an enemy base the companions tell you to shut up.

[PJ156]

Companions are a part of the module experience. If you create a companion that does not talk then you may as well have no companion and balance the mod accordingly. I personally always right click to find out what my comps have to say and get very frustrated with the same answers over and over.

I have some guidelines which I follow when doing my companions:

1. Say it once then delete the convo line, if it's plot critical it goes in the journal.
2. Develop the convo with the game, if a line is not relevant then it goes away even if not used.
3. Keep the companions talking amoung themselves and developing thier personalities through the mod, this through triggers and main convo injections. Let the pc invite the opionion of companions in the main convo strings.
4. Understand why the comp is there and ensure that this colours thier influence on the mod and the pc.

I write, and like to play, story driven mods. For that reason companion convos are more important and easier to manage than in sandbox style mods, there triggering the convo rather then pining it to the comp would work better but developing the companion would be harder IMO.

So for me keep the convos coming I personally put the effort in to find them. If you don't want your Elfin sorceress to discuss gardening just before the boss fight then don't ask, it's your choice as the pc. Of course if the mod designer triggers or forces you into this convo at this time I would expect this to be relevant, perhaps the boss like brussel sprouts; hell, some one has to.

PJ

PS: Kaldor I'm not sure your going to like my mods

Modifié par PJ156, 10 août 2010 - 07:38 .

[Morbane]

Limiting companion convos to the default conv is like having only one sword to choose from. Location and encounter triggered convos for companions adds depth to the likelihood that the default convo may be accessed more than once - giving the same responses. But that may be necessary - or not - it depends on the writer. Allowing the PC to interact with their companions adds dimension and the possibility of other-class influence in decision-making. As well, NPC conversing should also be as dynamic as possible, given the circumstance - location etc.

[BigfootNZ]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

Not something I care about at all. I don't talk with them. I don't want them to talk to me. I have no desire to have intra-party romances and I don't see a need to understand the backgrounds. Even if there is some depth to be gained by such conversations, any realism is likely to be spoiled by mistakes in the conversation tree, or grammar, or spelling. Also the more time a developer spends on conversations with a companion the more they are likely to make that companion critical to the game, and that is I think a great mistake.

Regards

A Party is more than the players character, not taking advantage of that fact just hurts a module badly in my opnion. Given the wealth of material and creative ideas that can flow from good deep companion interaction why not include them? if your having a hard time to fill your module outside of the main goal, thinking about companion interaction will give you more than enough ideas even with just an idle pass.

I mean they serve a huge amount of purpose, they can be guides, side quest hubs, world lore providers, nudgers in the direction the module builder wants the player to goers, Tip dropers, passive antagonists (the enemy you know etc), atmosphere builders, easter eggs, replay insentive, pointer outers of things of interest ("Hmm this architexture sure is grand aint it?, wow check out that tower!"... PC might actually look up and notice a specificly framed piece of area construction you made rather than rushing towards the next battle ignoring the work you put in) etc.

Being someone whos played Planescape Torment, I like my companions as deep and as chatty as they can be. If all you think its usefull for is setting up Romance or companion background... then no wonder you never talk to your companions (then again its scope does come down to the module builder).

And Shaugn78 I had never thought of making Companions refusing to talk during dangerous situations... completely logical but genius none the less. The little things you could attach to that sort of situation in terms of both dialogue and game mechanics are interesting indeed.

Companions are part of the story, they are in effect the other players you'd normally be playing with if the module you where playing happened to be a PnP game refereed by a DM on a friday night... Id try to make companions that try to reflect that. They should after all be more than a extra set of stat blocks to help your stat block fight a bunch of hostile stat blocks.

[Eguintir Eligard]

ocanthus wrote...

In Pharaoh, we're using companion interactions to offer subtle clues or hints, but they are optional.

I personally don't care for interacting with NPCs run by a computer in any significant way. I guess I can't "suspend disbelief" enough to get into it. On the other hand, tons of people downloaded that NWN2 OC "romancing bishop" mod, so clearly some people dig it.

Does this include the NPCs out of the party that provide quests and things to do? I assume not otherwise you wouldn't play any rpgs. So if not, why is it ok for the npcs out of your party but you cant suspend your "cloud of disbelief" as soon as any such npc joins your party?

[WyrinDnjargo]

I love my party to have personailitie and to comment on my actions and choices, and offer their views.

But I never click to talk to a companion and farm dialogue trees for new snippets unless I have to. It's tedious and spoils immersion to keep asking how someone is feeling after every plot advancement.



But it all depends on the style of mod you're going for. Using companions to drive a story-driven mod is great. But I can live without them in an SoZ style campaign.



I'm going for the latter - but with skill based interjections from triggers to add in some life and character.

[Gilradthegreat]

I'm going for the latter - but with skill based interjections from triggers to add in some life and character.

Indeed, I intentionally made sure my party had a wide variety of skills between them, and playing through your mod they were quite chatty!

[Dorateen]

I find companions are a great addition to a core player created party. To me, this feels more like a DM run NPC who joins the players' party from PnP.

What I did using the SoZ conversation system, was tailor some lines of dialogue specific to the companion that is available to join the party. In this way, he can still interject during appropriate conversations, but it is at the player's discretion.

As I understand it, this would be similar to the situation with Septimund from SoZ who had lines relevant to the conversation with Nya because of their history and relationship, but it still left the choice up to the player to decide if they want to select those dialogue options. That's the best of both worlds.

I'm also allowing the player to click on the companion to talk to him, which will bring up a simple conversation that will change according to reflect the quest state.

When I used joinable companions in The Halls of Hamhock, I found placed speak triggers worked best to have the companions pipe up with comments.

Harumph!

[Shaughn78]

Dorateen wrote...

What I did using the SoZ conversation system, was tailor some lines of dialogue specific to the companion that is available to join the party. In this way, he can still interject during appropriate conversations, but it is at the player's discretion.

Harumph!

This is just my opinion but NPC companions should not be fully controlled by the player.  And I find the SOZ conversation style takes away from companions.

I am going off topic again but here it is. The SOZ conversation takes away from the game. It suppresses companion personalities and interejections. Now the player can choose to allow a companion to throw in their opinion opposed to having a true unterjection. An example would be that strong willed or possibly psychotic fighter who refuses to back down from a challange or insult. They should interject and force a battle that the player may have been able to avoid if they chose to and didn't have that companion. The SOZ also allows for a a power party where each character can max out on certain skills to a deptriment of another. This allows a single player to be able to access every path of the game on a single playthrough.

By using the NWN1 or cutscene conversations companions can interject and offer their opinions to the player, talk to each other or even the NPC. They have the potention to take over the conversation if it fits their personality and current situation. I still use the SOZ but not for conversations with NPCs. If the party is examining or using some item it will allow their different skills to be used.

[Eguintir Eligard]

I seem to recall somebody saying they set their companions to a direct left click to make them speak... I assume this means they are no better then henchmen since you can't take control of them in combat? Is that really worth it?

[Shaughn78]

I believe the game originally talked on companion L click. I remember having to abort companion convos regularly while playing OC as it was an obnoxious feature.

[Thiefy]

hm i like a lot of different dialouge. i think it adds more depth to characters. personally i preferred when the camera didn't change angles because when that happens, it makes things look more dramatic and cinematic - and that's not a bad thing, but it's immersion breaking when you've got a cinematic scene and there's no VO's, even though the rest of the OC had VO's when the camera shifts. I've also attached the original VA's to the characters so hearing new vioces for them is a little weird. So for my NWN1 style chat would be best.