23 réponses à ce sujet

[Infinity Circuit]

 If I had a nickel for every time I've read that Arcane Warrior and Blood Mage are the best combination in DA, I could pre-order DAII a hundred times over.  But where's the proof?  Aside from this one-liner and a lot of gushing (no pun intended about) Blood Wound I have NOT seen anyone post an actual level-for-level build that takes into account the realities of the game.

-  For example, how are people getting either of these specializations by Level 7? 

-  Furthermore, what are people doing about healing if they go after either of these specializations before getting Wynne in Broken Circle?

-  What does your Mage spell list look like before specializing?  (And who else are you using in your party?)

So in this thread just skip the big talk and get down to the details.  

Modifié par Infinity Circuit, 10 août 2010 - 03:05 .

[Shadowraven]

I, too, am interested in this. I do keep hearing people talk about how they are the bee's knees so I would like to hear more detailed analysis from playing experience.

I just finished the Landsmeet with my first character (yes, I'm late to the Dragon Age party but real life gets in the way sometimes) and I looking for something new to play. For this playthrough, I played what I usually play in a game I am unfamiliar with - human fighter/warrior type. They're usually the easiest and give me a sense of gameplay and mechanics.

So yeah, by all means, please provide your experiences with AW's and BM's.

Modifié par Shadowraven, 10 août 2010 - 03:35 .

[Augoeides]

I'd assume the answer to the specializations is that either they don't pick a specialization until either of those becomes available or they start a new character once they have unlocked either Blood Mage or Arcane Warrior or both.

Healing/Wynne/Broken Circle question: Read above.

I've never tried the combo myself and it perplexes me as to how it could be anymore efficient than any other combo.

Modifié par Augoeides, 10 août 2010 - 03:24 .

[d3c0yBoY]

Most people that have access all the specializations is due in part that they unlocked them in a prior playthrough. Once unlocked, you can select it @ 7 when in Lothering.



Healing Poultice. You could complete the whole game exclusively using them without a mage.



Spell selection include an offensive, a defensive and some utility. Each one depends on preference and playstyle. There are no wrong answers. Once I got those covered, I'm golden.

[Il Divo]

Infinity Circuit wrote...

-  Furthermore, what are people doing about healing if they go after either of these specializations before getting Wynne in Broken Circle?

For the most part, poultices will work fine. I however find that every Mage should be given the 'Heal' spell in case of emergencies. Whether I'm a Mage or an Arcane Warrior, it's always good to be able to bust out a heal or two.

-  What does your Mage spell list look like before specializing?  (And who else are you using in your party?)

As far as spell list, I usually start off with Mind Blast and a Primal spell (usually fire). I then start moving on to other spells which I think are useful to both a Mage/Arcane Warrior. Winter's Grasp is another great choice to grab for later on. Once I reach Ostagar, I usually grab Heal at some point, and pick up other openings in the Fire/Telekinetic branches. Fireball and Crushing Prison are great for damage and crowd control, whether a normal mage or an Arcane Warrior. It's good to also grab sustained spells like Arcane Shield or even Rock Armor which become essential as an Arcane Warrior.

As for party members, it probably won't matter later on as you're indestructible. I personally prefer Wynne with two other melee types, usually Sten and Zevran. Morrigan works as a spirit healer too if you happen to ****** Wynne off. A great tactic is to throw Death Hex on someone and have all your melee focus fire that one person. Hope this helps.

Modifié par Il Divo, 10 août 2010 - 03:48 .

[Infinity Circuit]

On Hard, I was building toward this combo. At Level 5, have the following spells:

Creation - Heal

Primal - Rock Armor, Stone Fist, Earthquake

Spirit - Mindblast, Forcefield, Telekinetic Weapons

Mage - Arcane Bolt

Stats are:

STR: 10

DEX: 10

WIL: 20

MAG: 29

CUN: 11

CON: 12

I'm finding that this guys is not hacking it, so to speak. He goes down almost every encounter. And by the time, he's down I often notice that someone else already is, too.

Playing a magic-user in BioWare games is always a pain in the ass but I'm having a really hard time with it in
DA:O.

Modifié par Infinity Circuit, 10 août 2010 - 04:40 .

[Augoeides]

I'd have probably slotted Drain Life in there somewhere as an alternative to Heal and Potions. I also believe  Blood Mage charactes would probably need more CON.

Modifié par Augoeides, 10 août 2010 - 05:05 .

[chefbobby203]

I would start off with some damage and glyph spells personally. All the other buffs that can augment arcane warrior I would start adding a bit later(as realistically you won't get the right equipment for an AW until at least level 14 or 15). If you let Alistair tank for you and use glyphs intelligently, you can cruise through much of the game using only single target damage spells(getting only rank 1 damage spells will free up talent points later for the super AW buffs). I find a good way to start is at level 1 taking rank 1 cold and lightning spells, followed up by paralysis glyph at level 2 and heal at level 3. From there I'd recommend going for the next 2 glyphs or heading towards CoC(you may not even want this as later on you will not be able to cast the spell unless you sheathe your weapon).

Also with the right gear you can get away with running a ton of sustainables without ever boosting your willpower at all(I would, however, plan on boosting your con a bit if you want to tank at some point..and you'll be using health for spells so...) On my AW/BM I went with Evon the Great's Mail(wade's superior dragonscale works fine too), wade's boots/gloves, spellweaver, dead coat of arms, executioner's helm, spellward, lifegiver, blood ring. Everything but Evon the Great's Mail I obtained by level 14 without using any money making exploits other than being a greedy SoB and always demanding a reward.

[Maverick827]

 Playing as an Arcane Warrior from level 7 is boring.  The game just does not want you to start that early; everything is stacked against you until at least level 12.

Because of this, the best way to play an AW/BM is actually as a regular Mage until then.  You can grab Combat Magic and wear low-fatigue armor (such as Cailan's set), but you should still be using a staff.  I have built and played an AW from level 7 on up, and it was just far too terrible by contrast.

If you play on a console, unfortunately you cannot get the re-spec mod, which makes this so much more tolerable.  At level 12, I re-spec from pure mage to pure AW.  With the free Joining talent and, let's say two tomes, you would have 16 talents; in no particular order:

1. Arcane Shield
2. Rock Armor
3. Combat Magic
4. Aura of Might
5. Heal
6. Mind Blast
7. Force Field
8. Telekinetic Weapons
9. Crushing Prison
10. Weakness
11. Paralyze
12. Glyph of Paralysis
13. Glyph of Warding
14. Flame Blast
15. Flaming Weapons
16. Fireball

At level 14, I will re-spec again to pick up Blood Wound, Shimmering Shield, and Haste.  You'll need the "perfect" gear setup to get the mana regen, but it's do-able at 14.  Now your AW/BM is unstoppable.

Going further and soloing Awakenings with an AW/BM is very fun, though I would advise Curse of Mortality.  The Baroness was a half an hour fight for me without it.

Modifié par Maverick827, 10 août 2010 - 09:56 .

[i love lamp x3]

Spells
italics=for additional spells, what i'd recommend
regular=what i'd recommend
bold=what i deem necessities

mage: arcane bolt (you start with it) ->arcane shield

primal:
earth: rock armor ->stone fist ->earthquake
electrical: lightning ->shock ->tempest ->chain lightning

creation:
healing: heal
enhancements: heroic offense ->heroic aura ->heroic defense ->haste

spirit:
anti-magic: spell shield
telekinesis: mind blast ->force field->telekinetic weapons->crushing prison

entropy:
debilitation: weakness-> paralyze-> miasma-> mass paralysis

and obviously, you will get all 4 spells for arcane warrior and blood mage or whatever second specialization you want

until you build a pretty good sized pool of mana, i would recommend keeping another mage in your party to provide telekinetic weapons and haste. but, note you can double haste (don't triple, it slows combat speed to regular, tho you'll run much faster) so if you keep rock armor, arcane shield, miasma, combat magic and shimmering shield active, you'll be just about untouchable and should have additional mana for a high powered spell like crushing prison or mass paralysis.

everything else is up to you, i recommend using this guide: http://dragonage.wik...or_Spellcasting to choose spells. with some spells your sword needs to be sheathed, which effectively forces you to skip a turn in combat if you want to cast them. this guide shows what spells you can use that won't make you sheath your weapon.

Attributes:
magic and willpower are obviously the most important, but willpower increases your mana and so is especially important for the arcane mage. i kept my willpower between 1 and 5 points behind my magic. also.. if you put a few extra points into strength you won't miss as much, especially with miasma active

Skills: 
you start with herbalism.. i'd recommend master herbalism for you or another party member. you will be able to make plenty of higher tiered lyrium potions and i personally try to keep several dozen swift salves on hand. 1 haste in conjunction with a swift salve will allow you to get the benefit of casting double haste without wasting the mana or forcing you to have 3 mages in your party, only 2. which is reasonable since the arcane warrior is more like.. an invincible warrior. 

it's going to be tough until you get to between level 12-16. by the time you get fade shroud at level 16 i promise your mage will be disgusting. with everything active, and if you get the arcane warrior sword or starfang, your attack will be higher than, if not close to everyone else in the party. your resistances will be 75% for any elemental attack, more if you get something like wade's superior dragonskin armor set. defense will be very high, as will armor. avoid 2 handed weapons or dual wielding. sword and shield or just sword is perfect. 

by endgame, after using leliana, morrigan and alistair throughout, party damage contribution was 52%, over 60 after awakening

also i skipped out on blood mage and went for spirit healer. 

btw if you import in awakening and add battlemage specialization along with a choice few of the additional mage abilities, by the time awakening's over your character will make everyone look like a pansy. 

Modifié par i love lamp x3, 10 août 2010 - 10:31 .

[Elhanan]

^ I suggest skipping the Haste tier for all Cold spells, skipping Paraysis line for Glyphs (3), and maybe try for Mana Clash including Spell Might instead of Chain Lightning, Spell Shield, Crushing Prison. Having access to Mana Clash, Glyph combo, and even Storm of the Century will make for less reliance on the fighters, and perhaps increase the versatility of the team. Plus these spells can make some of the fights so much faster; less drwn out affairs.

[Erlemar]

 I finished the game with such a build:


There was an unknown glitch which allowed me to take a third specialization on 22 level, but really I didn't even put any point in BM or SH specialization - AW was enough.
At first I took heal, rock armor, 3 spells in fire branch, mana clash for mages and frost weapons for demons in Circle of Mages.
Than regenerate and everithing else (what is in the picture).
Till 10-12 level I mostly used spells, but since 7 level I often fought in armor and with longsword and a dagger: after 10-12 level most fights were won in the following way: mana clash (if necessary), 1-2 fireballs and then fight with weapons.
Using BM specialization wouldn't change the things a lot, it would just made the fights even more easy, though with just AW they are easy enough.

[Maverick827]

Elhanan wrote...

^ I suggest skipping the Haste tier for all Cold spells, skipping Paraysis line for Glyphs (3), and maybe try for Mana Clash including Spell Might instead of Chain Lightning, Spell Shield, Crushing Prison. Having access to Mana Clash, Glyph combo, and even Storm of the Century will make for less reliance on the fighters, and perhaps increase the versatility of the team. Plus these spells can make some of the fights so much faster; less drwn out affairs.

I was under the impression that one wanted to solo on their AW/BM, in which case haste is one of the most integral talents.

[chefbobby203]

Well it will certainly increase your damage, but you'll be immortal anyway with rock armor, combat magic, shimmering shield, arcane shield, miasma.....so is it really that important? Hell, my AW/BM got grabbed by brood mother and GAINED health(from regen gear) during the hold

[Elhanan]

Maverick827 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

^ I suggest skipping the Haste tier for all Cold spells, skipping Paraysis line for Glyphs (3), and maybe try for Mana Clash including Spell Might instead of Chain Lightning, Spell Shield, Crushing Prison. Having access to Mana Clash, Glyph combo, and even Storm of the Century will make for less reliance on the fighters, and perhaps increase the versatility of the team. Plus these spells can make some of the fights so much faster; less drwn out affairs.

I was under the impression that one wanted to solo on their AW/BM, in which case haste is one of the most integral talents.

Perhaps if the AW simply wants to melee. But wading through battles with sword and shield is not as possibly effective as removing mages with one spell, and setting up entire squads of foes with SotC and Glyphs from behind closed doors.

[Maverick827]

Elhanan wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

^ I suggest skipping the Haste tier for all Cold spells, skipping Paraysis line for Glyphs (3), and maybe try for Mana Clash including Spell Might instead of Chain Lightning, Spell Shield, Crushing Prison. Having access to Mana Clash, Glyph combo, and even Storm of the Century will make for less reliance on the fighters, and perhaps increase the versatility of the team. Plus these spells can make some of the fights so much faster; less drwn out affairs.

I was under the impression that one wanted to solo on their AW/BM, in which case haste is one of the most integral talents.

Perhaps if the AW simply wants to melee. But wading through battles with sword and shield is not as possibly effective as removing mages with one spell, and setting up entire squads of foes with SotC and Glyphs from behind closed doors.

Why bother with glyphs and CC?  Though I ended up taking Mana Clash in Awakenings, it wasn't supremely helpful; as I have said, a properly played AW/BM is unkillable.  The only spells I actively used was AoE to kill large groups of enemies more quickly.  Fireball was more than enough, though, SotC would have been overkill.

[Augoeides]

Mana Clash really shows its' usefulness in places like the Abandoned Building in Denerim. Otherwise it was pretty much only useful when there was an enemy mage flinging fireballs from behind a literal swarm of enemies. You could also use the AoE field to scout out an area though and hit mages before you even enter combat.

[Elhanan]

I am not a huge fan of SotC myself, as it can become a TPK if you underestimate the AoE. But it can make short work of huge masses quickly, and makes several area go much faster (eg; Denerim alleys, warehouses, estates, Dwarven Assembly, etc).

Mana Clash is not only useful on mages, which by itself is very helpful in Denerim, Haven, The Circle Tower, the Dalish Forests, etc, but is also useful against demons and their ilk, Spell Might can also be used to pump offensive spells, defensive spells, and buffing spells; not only as a SotC prereq.

And Glyphs may take an entire thread to gather posts of their usefulness and versatility. One can cast them as barricades, protective circles, knockdown forcefields, triggers for opposing glyphs, paralysis for single or multi-targets, buffs, etc, etc, etc. The game is more than just inflicting damage.

Modifié par Elhanan, 10 août 2010 - 03:03 .

[Maverick827]

Elhanan wrote...

And Glyphs may take an entire thread to gather posts of their usefulness and versatility. One can cast them as barricades, protective circles, knockdown forcefields, triggers for opposing glyphs, paralysis for single or multi-targets, buffs, etc, etc, etc. The game is more than just inflicting damage.

I know how powerful Glyphs are.  What I question is their usefulness, being defensive spells, on a character that needs no defensive aid.

Modifié par Maverick827, 10 août 2010 - 03:23 .

[Elhanan]

Again, that is if you use the pre-buffed melee magical tank.

But the AW is able to adapt well as a spellslinger too, and it is sure more fun than running under Haste while using auto-attacks

[Maverick827]

Elhanan wrote...

 it is sure more fun than running under Haste while using auto-attacks

That depends on what character you are trying to make.

Templars from my RPG past have been warriors that utilize fire and life drain magics.  Obviously Templars in this game are not even close to that, and to continue such a character that I have had for years, I would have to make an Arcane Warrior.  

Since this character type is still very much a Warrior, I am fine with heavy auto attacking, even more so since the forced deathblows mod spices things up.

Modifié par Maverick827, 10 août 2010 - 06:24 .

[Last Darkness]

Is there a Mod yet that makes combat magic calculate attack score gained from Str to Magic yet?

[mokponobi]

I've always wondered why mob tactics were not set up to debuff more. Cleanse area (some of the templars in circle tower did do this, great fun), dispel magic, glyph of nuetralization etc would make battle more challenging for AW's, and more fun cause you wouldn't just be an auto attack near un-killable tank.



2cents

[SEsterline]

i love lamp x3 wrote...

Attributes:
magic and willpower are obviously the most important, but willpower increases your mana and so is especially important for the arcane mage. i kept my willpower between 1 and 5 points behind my magic. also.. if you put a few extra points into strength you won't miss as much, especially with miasma active

Just FYI, if your Wizard (especially your AW) is holding Nugcrusher, you get +100 Mana and can cast even more spells before wading into combat, then you since you've tossed a few runes on ol' Nuggy, you can go whallop whatever's left over.