8061 réponses à ce sujet

[Tellervo]

Rooster on DA is spreading some holiday cheer, giving us all exactly what we want to find under the mistletoe....

[ejoslin]

What a, ummm, beautiful stocking stuffer 

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 décembre 2010 - 08:28 .

[Kismet76]

*drools*

...

*faints*

[Kornichon]

hmm... beast pelt.... *nosebleed*

[TanithAeyrs]

Zev...mistletoe....looses train of thought and drools on keyboard.

[Giggles_Manically]

Zevran approves of all the passed out ladies.

[TanithAeyrs]

Thought I'd post a link to Rooster's holiday contest for anyone who is interested - just spotted it when I was catching up on her comic (and drooling on Zev).


http://rooster82.dev...urnal/36418084/

Modifié par TanithAeyrs, 08 décembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

And yes, DA2 is a paraphrase/dialog wheel/third-person-narrative.  

I hate to say this, but now I'm even more confused (and worried)... 3rd person?    Man I've never even played a game with a 'dialog wheel' before.  I'm having a hard time even picturing how this might work.

Basically, when your character is responding, you click a paraphrase, then you get a brief bit of conversation, both your character and whomever it is you're speaking with.  It's third person because you're watching your character do things you don't know of until they do it.

it is described as "more cinematic."  I have my doubts it will be as engrossing as DAO -- it may still be a good game (DAO is not the first good game that was ever released) it will be different.

@corker I quit drinking coffee at my keyboard here a long time ago

I don't want to play a movie!!!  That is not what RPGs are!!!  AAAAAAGH!  I'm not buying this game.  No ****ing way.  I'm actually seriously pissed off.  I was so excited for this whole franchise, because it WAS a great new RPG franchise.  But if you don't even know what your character is going to say or do before you choose, then it's not ****ing role-play. 

I can't even describe how much this upsets me.

*edit*  I'm sorry, just really have to vent.  I knew DA2 was going to be different.  I knew I was already disapointed with some of the changes.  But I absolutely did NOT expect them to throw away everything that made Origins such a highly immersive RPG... including the whole RPG part.  How the **** does one have a role play if they are not in control of the role they are playing?  They may as well replace the swords with guns and make it a shooter.  I hear those are pretty popular with bro gamers and 12 year olds.   That seems to be the demographic they're moving towards.

Modifié par EccentricSage, 08 décembre 2010 - 09:44 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Indeed. That's why they're using some catchcry of 'When you press buttons, something awesome happens,' I imagine. Whee. :/

[Corker]

@rooster82's pic... *looks down* I can't help but notice it's not his *mouth* that's actually under the mistletoe...

[Sueno]

EccentricSage wrote...

I don't want to play a movie!!!  That is not what RPGs are!!!  AAAAAAGH!  I'm not buying this game.  No ****ing way.  I'm actually seriously pissed off.  I was so excited for this whole franchise, because it WAS a great new RPG franchise.  But if you don't even know what your character is going to say or do before you choose, then it's not ****ing role-play. 

I can't even describe how much this upsets me.

*edit*  I'm sorry, just really have to vent.  I knew DA2 was going to be different.  I knew I was already disapointed with some of the changes.  But I absolutely did NOT expect them to throw away everything that made Origins such a highly immersive RPG... including the whole RPG part.  How the **** does one have a role play if they are not in control of the role they are playing?  They may as well replace the swords with guns and make it a shooter.  I hear those are pretty popular with bro gamers and 12 year olds.   That seems to be the demographic they're moving towards.

Come on, have you never played Secret of Mana or Final Fantasy? Some rpgs did offer more freedom, such as Ultima (and I'm talking about the first one for the NES, ah, the good ol' days), but for the most part this whole "choose your own adventure" dynamic didn't take off until KotoR (although I would say Chrono Trigger is what sparked the change). Before the whole morality system the majority of what was available were rpgs with linear storylines. Linear storyline = limited choices, if any.

I understand why Bioware has made the decision to follow in the footsteps of ME. The PC's face in DA is emotionless throughout the game which takes away from very engrossing moments. There's this awesome scene in ME between Wrex and Shepard that just couldn't happen in DA because the PC doesn't emote. Giving the PC a voice, allowing them to emote will add to the story's depth, if anything.

[wildannie]

EccentricSage wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

And yes, DA2 is a paraphrase/dialog wheel/third-person-narrative.  

I hate to say this, but now I'm even more confused (and worried)... 3rd person?    Man I've never even played a game with a 'dialog wheel' before.  I'm having a hard time even picturing how this might work.

Basically, when your character is responding, you click a paraphrase, then you get a brief bit of conversation, both your character and whomever it is you're speaking with.  It's third person because you're watching your character do things you don't know of until they do it.

it is described as "more cinematic."  I have my doubts it will be as engrossing as DAO -- it may still be a good game (DAO is not the first good game that was ever released) it will be different.

@corker I quit drinking coffee at my keyboard here a long time ago

I don't want to play a movie!!!  That is not what RPGs are!!!  AAAAAAGH!  I'm not buying this game.  No ****ing way.  I'm actually seriously pissed off.  I was so excited for this whole franchise, because it WAS a great new RPG franchise.  But if you don't even know what your character is going to say or do before you choose, then it's not ****ing role-play. 

I can't even describe how much this upsets me.

*edit*  I'm sorry, just really have to vent.  I knew DA2 was going to be different.  I knew I was already disapointed with some of the changes.  But I absolutely did NOT expect them to throw away everything that made Origins such a highly immersive RPG... including the whole RPG part.  How the **** does one have a role play if they are not in control of the role they are playing?  They may as well replace the swords with guns and make it a shooter.  I hear those are pretty popular with bro gamers and 12 year olds.   That seems to be the demographic they're moving towards.

I do get what you're saying but I think that you should consider giving it a chance.

For me the Mass Effect games with dialogue wheel did feel like RPG in the sense of being attached to my Shepard and the crew and feeling like their actions affect the world around them, I was totally immersed in the game and the role.   I expect DA2 to feel this way too.

I prefer DAO companion characters (probably because of more dialog and Zevran), but I  actually have more affection for my shepards than my DA PCs.  I enjoyed the shooter element in ME but ONLY because it was framed by a great story, the direction of  which I had some control over (just as much as in DAO). 

I have great faith in Bioware to produce another addictive masterpiece with DA2 (I may be wrong)... good DLC, maybe not

Edit: I agree with Sueno on the Wrex scene, that was so tense and devastating the first time I played ME.

Modifié par wildannie, 08 décembre 2010 - 11:37 .

[EccentricSage]

Sueno wrote...

Come on, have you never played Secret of Mana or Final Fantasy? Some rpgs did offer more freedom, such as Ultima (and I'm talking about the first one for the NES, ah, the good ol' days), but for the most part this whole "choose your own adventure" dynamic didn't take off until KotoR (although I would say Chrono Trigger is what sparked the change). Before the whole morality system the majority of what was available were rpgs with linear storylines. Linear storyline = limited choices, if any.

I understand why Bioware has made the decision to follow in the footsteps of ME. The PC's face in DA is emotionless throughout the game which takes away from very engrossing moments. There's this awesome scene in ME between Wrex and Shepard that just couldn't happen in DA because the PC doesn't emote. Giving the PC a voice, allowing them to emote will add to the story's depth, if anything.

I played some of the Final Fantasy games.  Didn't finish any of them because I got bored.  I don't realy like linear traditional JRPGs.  I heard that in the west, the more 'choose your own adventure/dialogue choices' RPGs did exist, but only on computer, and were mostly text based due to technological limitations.  Those were before my time, though, so I can't claim personal experience.  I prefer real Role Playing in games, not just an adventure game with leveling and inventory.  I don't have time for games I only half like, or characters I don't really care about.

I agree the Warden in Origins didn't emote enough, and that this needed to be improved upon.  I do not understand why that would require a switch to a dialogue wheel.  With the wheel or the menue, in the end you have a variety of dialogue options and emotions/actions that would need to be voiced and animated.  How does the wheel make that more acheivable?

wildannie wrote...

I do get what you're saying but I think that you should consider giving it a chance.

For
me the Mass Effect games with dialogue wheel did feel like RPG in the
sense of being attached to my Shepard and the crew and feeling like
their actions affect the world around them, I was totally immersed in
the game and the role.   I expect DA2 to feel this way too.

I prefer DAO companion characters (probably because of more dialog and Zevran../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png),
but I  actually have more affection for my shepards than my DA PCs.  I
enjoyed the shooter element in ME but ONLY because it was framed by a
great story, the direction of  which I had some control over (just as
much as in DAO). 

I have great faith in Bioware to produce another addictive masterpiece with DA2 (I may be wrong)... good DLC, maybe not ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

Edit: I agree with Sueno on the Wrex scene, that was so tense and devastating the first time I played ME.../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png

I'll give it a chance to win me over, but it would have to be pretty amazing to be more than a rental played on my brother's 360.  It's hard for me to even give it a chance, because my love for Origins has left me biased.  I don't know if I can get over the fact that they are dumping most of what I liked about Origins and completely changing the direction of this franchise.  I don't really want to support it, because I hate the change in direction.  (change in direction is an understatement, IMO.  But it's hard to come up with a better term)

I always intended to eventually get around to trying ME, but the character interaction is not the way I like it, and I'm far more a fantasy geek than scifi.  Scifi just feals, pardon the pun, too alien for me.  But mythology and magic, for some reason, I've always had a fascination with.  I think it just feels more down to earth and rooted in history to me.  Plus, I'm not a big technology person.  lol

I don't really know what to say.  Basicly, certain RPGs come along that embody things I've always dreamed of being in an RPG.  Morrowind is alongside Origins as an example of that.  I find myself eager for the next instalment... New lands, enemies, etc.  But I desire the same deapth and personal involvement.  With Elder Scrolls, Oblivion ended up going completely in the wrong direction and dissapointing me.  I fear that DA2 will do the same.  It certainly is going in completely a different direction, and already taking away the elements that made Origins so special.

There are a LOT of realy good games out there.  I'm not worried about weather or not DA2 will be 'good'.  I'm worried about weather or not it will be as special as Origins, even if in a different way.  It's starting to sound like ME with swords.  *sigh*

Modifié par EccentricSage, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[ejoslin]

DAO is not the first cRPG that I've played, but it was the most engrossing. I am hoping DA2 is a good game, but I don't think I can actually become my character in a third-person narrative (nor do I think that is the goal).

The lack of emoting didn't bother me as usually you only saw the character's back, and often there was subtle emotion anyway. Some places, like seeing Cailan strung up in RtO, the emotion was completely inappropriate for my character (why again did my dwarf casteless look so sad?).

Again, that doesn't mean that a third-person narrative cannot be good, but I will not BE my character in the way that the "blank slate" warden allowed me to be her.

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 décembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[Persephone]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Indeed. That's why they're using some catchcry of 'When you press buttons, something awesome happens,' I imagine. Whee. :/

Well, it worked for ME2. Very well, in fact.

But DA2 is not ME2 in a medieval setting!!! Or it should not be! Biowaaaaaaaaaaare, are you listening?

[Sueno]

EccentricSage wrote...

I played some of the Final Fantasy games.  Didn't finish any of them because I got bored.  I don't realy like linear traditional JRPGs.  I heard that in the west, the more 'choose your own adventure/dialogue choices' RPGs did exist, but only on computer, and were mostly text based due to technological limitations.  Those were before my time, though, so I can't claim personal experience.  I prefer real Role Playing in games, not just an adventure game with leveling and inventory.  I don't have time for games I only half like, or characters I don't really care about.

I agree the Warden in Origins didn't emote enough, and that this needed to be improved upon.  I do not understand why that would require a switch to a dialogue wheel.  With the wheel or the menue, in the end you have a variety of dialogue options and emotions/actions that would need to be voiced and animated.  How does the wheel make that more acheivable?

Reading completely what your pc would say--a la menu style--makes having a vo redundant. So paraphrasing not only keeps the player entertained (not having to hear what you just read) but aids in the natural flow of the conversation.

I'm curious if your worried such as the incident in ME where shepard punches a reporter in the gut might happen in DA? Yes, there was no prior warning of this action and I myself found this off putting. But I can't recall if such an incident was repeated in ME2. I think if your pc does do an action it should be noted in the wheel.

[ejoslin]

I guess some people like the silent protagonist (me me me) and some people prefer a voiced one. It is just a matter of personal preference.



Seeing as DA2 was designed before DAO was even released, I do get the feeling that they did not expect that DAO would be the overwhelming success that it was. It may be possible they switch back to the first person narrative for DA3.

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

I guess some people like the silent protagonist (me me me) and some people prefer a voiced one. It is just a matter of personal preference.

Seeing as DA2 was designed before DAO was even released, I do get the feeling that they did not expect that DAO would be the overwhelming success that it was. It may be possible they switch back to the first person narrative for DA3.

I would be thrilled if they did that.  Or even if we ended up with two paralel Dragon Age franchises within the same world.  That would be pretty incredible, especialy if you could cross-import info between games.

I'm just very against this trend towards a middle ground, where all games start to become the same thing, played the same way, targeted towards the same people.  I'm pretty far out into hardcore WRPG/sandbox RPG territory.  I don't want there to stop being games that are rooted firmly and unapologenticly in this genre.

[EccentricSage]

Sueno wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I played some of the Final Fantasy games.  Didn't finish any of them because I got bored.  I don't realy like linear traditional JRPGs.  I heard that in the west, the more 'choose your own adventure/dialogue choices' RPGs did exist, but only on computer, and were mostly text based due to technological limitations.  Those were before my time, though, so I can't claim personal experience.  I prefer real Role Playing in games, not just an adventure game with leveling and inventory.  I don't have time for games I only half like, or characters I don't really care about.

I agree the Warden in Origins didn't emote enough, and that this needed to be improved upon.  I do not understand why that would require a switch to a dialogue wheel.  With the wheel or the menue, in the end you have a variety of dialogue options and emotions/actions that would need to be voiced and animated.  How does the wheel make that more acheivable?

Reading completely what your pc would say--a la menu style--makes having a vo redundant. So paraphrasing not only keeps the player entertained (not having to hear what you just read) but aids in the natural flow of the conversation.

I'm curious if your worried such as the incident in ME where shepard punches a reporter in the gut might happen in DA? Yes, there was no prior warning of this action and I myself found this off putting. But I can't recall if such an incident was repeated in ME2. I think if your pc does do an action it should be noted in the wheel.

If I have to choose, I'd rather the silent protagonist than a third person narative.

Yes, I'm worried as to incidents like that to some degree.  I do NOT want surprises from my character, because they they are not my character.  I'm really hoping that they'll pull this off in such a way that the wheel is so intuitive and well thought out that I do not regret the choices I pick... That they will be what I would have picked anyway had I been able to choose from the list.

It's occured to me... I wonder if for the computer version, moders might be able to create a mod that replaces the wheel with the old menue system.  I would feal a lot better about investing in this game if I could fall back on a mod should I find the third person narative too far removed to feel immersed.

If you want to know how hard it is for me to become immersed in non-first person naratives, I hated Inseption, and fell asleep during the action sequences.  And Leanardo's three-face emotional range absolutely broke suspension of disbelief for me CONSTANTLY.  If Hawk were to annoy me in any of the ways some RL actors annoy me, it will break the game for me. 

[Sueno]

EccentricSage wrote...

Sueno wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I played some of the Final Fantasy games.  Didn't finish any of them because I got bored.  I don't realy like linear traditional JRPGs.  I heard that in the west, the more 'choose your own adventure/dialogue choices' RPGs did exist, but only on computer, and were mostly text based due to technological limitations.  Those were before my time, though, so I can't claim personal experience.  I prefer real Role Playing in games, not just an adventure game with leveling and inventory.  I don't have time for games I only half like, or characters I don't really care about.

I agree the Warden in Origins didn't emote enough, and that this needed to be improved upon.  I do not understand why that would require a switch to a dialogue wheel.  With the wheel or the menue, in the end you have a variety of dialogue options and emotions/actions that would need to be voiced and animated.  How does the wheel make that more acheivable?

Reading completely what your pc would say--a la menu style--makes having a vo redundant. So paraphrasing not only keeps the player entertained (not having to hear what you just read) but aids in the natural flow of the conversation.

I'm curious if your worried such as the incident in ME where shepard punches a reporter in the gut might happen in DA? Yes, there was no prior warning of this action and I myself found this off putting. But I can't recall if such an incident was repeated in ME2. I think if your pc does do an action it should be noted in the wheel.

If I have to choose, I'd rather the silent protagonist than a third person narative.

Yes, I'm worried as to incidents like that to some degree.  I do NOT want surprises from my character, because they they are not my character.  I'm really hoping that they'll pull this off in such a way that the wheel is so intuitive and well thought out that I do not regret the choices I pick... That they will be what I would have picked anyway had I been able to choose from the list.

It's occured to me... I wonder if for the computer version, moders might be able to create a mod that replaces the wheel with the old menue system.  I would feal a lot better about investing in this game if I could fall back on a mod should I find the third person narative too far removed to feel immersed.

If you want to know how hard it is for me to become immersed in non-first person naratives, I hated Inseption, and fell asleep during the action sequences.  And Leanardo's three-face emotional range absolutely broke suspension of disbelief for me CONSTANTLY.  If Hawk were to annoy me in any of the ways some RL actors annoy me, it will break the game for me. 

Ah, now I understand. For example, I do not know how anyone plays as a male Shepard in ME. The voice acting was so monotone >_<. So, yeah, I guess I see where you're coming from. I'm probably not so worried because I enjoyed ME2 immensly. However, one of the things I appreciated about DA was the ability to mold my character. In ME you can either be good or evil so it is a rather limiting.

[EccentricSage]

Sueno wrote...

Ah, now I understand. For example, I do not know how anyone plays as a male Shepard in ME. The voice acting was so monotone >_<. So, yeah, I guess I see where you're coming from. I'm probably not so worried because I enjoyed ME2 immensly. However, one of the things I appreciated about DA was the ability to mold my character. In ME you can either be good or evil so it is a rather limiting.

If we end up having to choose between being Good or Evil in DA2, I'm definetly not buying it.  I think David Gaider is above that, so I can still hold out SOME hope, though.

I love that in Origins, there are complex decisions and consequences, and all the companions react differently.  This realy set things up for moral alignments to be more realisticly based uppon personal perspective and psychology.  This is rare in a game!  One Warden might do something because they believe with all their heart it was necasary or just, while another might find it abhorent.  My characters could even have many different reasons and naratives for why they end up in the relationship they end up in.  It feals so REAL sometimes... though I'm choosing what my characters say and do, I feal like they take on a life of their own because I become so immersed that I'm thinking from their POV based uppon their Origin and their experiences as the game progresses.  It's a true Role Play experience. 

I am a Dalish named Dristen, I am a Noble named Davend.  I take in the assassin as Dristen because I feal compashion for my fellow elf, and fascination at how different he is.  I take the assassin in as Davend because I am an arogent human noble, who thinks not being intentionaly cruel to elves is enough, and that I'm doing this elf a great favor letting him repay me for his life.  It's so much fun to see how the relationships develop, and how the companions and other NPCs start to influence my warden as well.  Dristen, the child of nature becomes more hardened, and comes to accept his harsh responsabilities as a warden to do whatever he must, with the help of Zevran, the pragmatist.  Davend the broken Human Noble, trying desperately to put away the frivilous ways of his past and become the man his family and Ferelden need him to be, finds a lesson in compashion and humility through his growing respect and afection for Zevran, the proud former slave.

There just aren't many games that give you both opportunity AND elbow room to develop a personal narative like that for even a single character, much less a whole plethera of them.  I could do at LEAST two a peace of each possible origin and not have redundancy. 

[Sueno]

EccentricSage wrote...

If we end up having to choose between being Good or Evil in DA2, I'm definetly not buying it.  I think David Gaider is above that, so I can still hold out SOME hope, though.

Gaider was the lead writer on KotoR and that game was about choosing the path of a jedi or a sith and he pulled it off wonderfully. So I'd say if you're worried about the writing give KotoR a play through.

[Tellervo]

Sorry to interrupt the heated debate here, but I brought a lil' somethin'-somethin'. Nations and Ages, chapter 7

[Sialater]

ICevoL wrote...

OK, the group is created and open for people to join:

http://social.bioware.com/group/3349/

I've created a few discussion threads in there as well, so feel free to make more suggestions.

Happy Holidays, Zevran fans!

I requested admittance.  Here's hoping I get jogged out of my slump.

[Sialater]

Tellervo wrote...

Rooster on DA is spreading some holiday cheer, giving us all exactly what we want to find under the mistletoe....

*snip Merry XXXMas Zev*

Um... er... *drool*

Modifié par Sialater, 08 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .