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[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Persephone wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Indeed. That's why they're using some catchcry of 'When you press buttons, something awesome happens,' I imagine. Whee. :/

Well, it worked for ME2. Very well, in fact.

But DA2 is not ME2 in a medieval setting!!! Or it should not be! Biowaaaaaaaaaaare, are you listening?

Is this where I say that I never played the ME games? XD

Edit: Top of the page? What is this madness?



Bigger Version.

Romanced Zevran and King Alistair, as CE strikes the death blow to the archdemon.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 décembre 2010 - 08:00 .

[yesnomaybe]

EccentricSage wrote...

If we end up having to choose between being Good or Evil in DA2, I'm definetly not buying it.  I think David Gaider is above that, so I can still hold out SOME hope, though.

I love that in Origins, there are complex decisions and consequences, and all the companions react differently.  This realy set things up for moral alignments to be more realisticly based uppon personal perspective and psychology.  This is rare in a game!  One Warden might do something because they believe with all their heart it was necasary or just, while another might find it abhorent.  My characters could even have many different reasons and naratives for why they end up in the relationship they end up in.  It feals so REAL sometimes... though I'm choosing what my characters say and do, I feal like they take on a life of their own because I become so immersed that I'm thinking from their POV based uppon their Origin and their experiences as the game progresses.  It's a true Role Play experience. 

I am a Dalish named Dristen, I am a Noble named Davend.  I take in the assassin as Dristen because I feal compashion for my fellow elf, and fascination at how different he is.  I take the assassin in as Davend because I am an arogent human noble, who thinks not being intentionaly cruel to elves is enough, and that I'm doing this elf a great favor letting him repay me for his life.  It's so much fun to see how the relationships develop, and how the companions and other NPCs start to influence my warden as well.  Dristen, the child of nature becomes more hardened, and comes to accept his harsh responsabilities as a warden to do whatever he must, with the help of Zevran, the pragmatist.  Davend the broken Human Noble, trying desperately to put away the frivilous ways of his past and become the man his family and Ferelden need him to be, finds a lesson in compashion and humility through his growing respect and afection for Zevran, the proud former slave.

There just aren't many games that give you both opportunity AND elbow room to develop a personal narative like that for even a single character, much less a whole plethera of them.  I could do at LEAST two a peace of each possible origin and not have redundancy. 

There won't be a morality system in DA2. This was confirmed by a mod somewhere in a DA2 thread.

As to your other point, I though DAO dialog was rather constricting at times. It was hard to play as a character who is inexperienced or unsure of themselves, since all the dialog choices sounded confident when making big decisions. You could change your mind if a companion complained, but you didn't have the option to waffle around and ask them what they thought. Also, Leliana and Zevran both say you "look grim" which means you don't get the option to have a friendly and outgoing warden. Not that this happened all the time, but you certainly couldn't role play everything you want.

I understand that a VO might have a different tone than you want and that could break immersion or even the game for you, and I can respect your opinion. Honestly, I'm worried that the VO's might sound too old or young for the characters I want to play. However, I do think that a lot of people are looking at the old game with rose-colored glasses and just ignoring its problems. Things are going to change, and I think that we should wait and see some demos and exactly how the dialog wheel and VO will really be implemented before making a decision about it just based on the fact that it's different from the first game.

[ICevoL]

Busy, busy -- Drive by posting

Friendly reminder: Sign-ups for the Zevran Secret Santa group will close tomorrow (Friday 12/10) at Noon Eastern Standard Time US (5:00 PM GMT).

http://social.bioware.com/group/3349/

Reminder to group members: The same deadline applies to putting in your requests for what you want as a gift.  Don't forget to make a list for your Santa!  That's how you end up getting fruit cake when you really want a Red Ryder BB Gun
 

*rushes back to work*

Modifié par ICevoL, 09 décembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Corker]

ICevoL wrote...
That's how you end up getting fruit cake when you really want a Red Ryder BB Gun

*opens mouth*

*closes mouth*

There's a joke here, involving "You'll shoot your eye out" and Zevran, but I don't think I'm *quite* filthy enough to make it.

[Tellervo]

Must not write sexfail for the kmeme Must NOT write sexfail for the kmeme.

[Sialater]

Corker wrote...

ICevoL wrote...
That's how you end up getting fruit cake when you really want a Red Ryder BB Gun

*opens mouth*

*closes mouth*

There's a joke here, involving "You'll shoot your eye out" and Zevran, but I don't think I'm *quite* filthy enough to make it.

Oh, good.  I wasn't the only one who went there.

[ICevoL]

*looks at responses*



*wags eyeborws and grins with evil glee*



My work here -- it is done. Ha!

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, I have some thoughts about romances and DA2... definitely not on topic here, but that never really stops me.

I wonder how meaningful a romance can be in a 30 hour game that takes place over 10 years. Or how it could be made meaningful. Part of what made both Alistair's and Zevran's romances special, to me, was that you got the courtship. You see Alistair falling in love, hard, and quickly, scared of his feelings, scared of how quickly things are going, not facing the future. You see Zevran soon realize that he's out of his league, stumbling over words, trying to be romantic yet at the same time not knowing how and trying, in vain, to keep some distance. You see him pretending what he's feeling is not really happening and when he finally can't lie any more, trying to hide, and then when he can't hide, laying himself bare.

How would something like that work over the long term? Can you even get a courtship if you're doing a game in chapters, where there are massive time skips after major events?

It's wasn't just the "good parts" that made the romances -- it was the little things. The banters where the love interest talked about the warden, the loving comments when selecting them (ohoh, "si amora,"), the slight difference in dialogs when talking about them, ("You have been a friend to me, and more. Far more than I deserve."). And yes, the jealousy, masked though it may be, the attempt to make the warden feel better about the situation, the complements that would come in the conversations at unexpected time ("Such an unflattering expression for such a lovely face," "I say you are handsome because you are," etc).

Gah, how can you highlight the little moments over a 10 year narrative. I have faith in David Gaider; if anyone can pull it off, he can.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 décembre 2010 - 08:26 .

[Tellervo]

I think it will be more difficult to keep the little things from seeming like jarring leaps. So I doubt there can be a really deep romance. The romances will probably just be fan service, regardless of how deeply developed the individual characters are.

[Ollymandias]

Ejoslin said...

Part of what made both Alistair's and Zevran's romances special, to me, was that you got the courtship.

I loved the Dragon Age romances. I've played all except Alistair's, and I can honestly say that they're the best romantic subplots I've seen in an RPG. But I'm quite excited to hear they're doing something different with Dragon Age 2. It gives players the opportunity to experience something different. I'm sure there will be a courtship phase to the Love Interest subplots, but there will also be the opportunity to explore other aspects to keep things fresh and different.



The thing which bothers me more about Dragon Age 2 and the romances is that I really liked having different origins for my characters who would romance the party members. My female HN who ended up with Leliana was very different to my Dalish elf who I made specifically to end up with Morrigan. Having a Hawke who presumably has a set backstory (or like in Mass Effect where you could choose a backstory which was trivial in terms of dramatic impact and overall importance) makes the replay value and roleplay value less appealing. I think I'll end up using lots of save files to explore the various romances rather than making new Wardens to sweep each love interest off her feet.



(That's if we can even switch love interests mid-game! Breaking it off with the romantic interests is hard enough after a fling. If it was a five year relationship the character was ending, then I can imagine it would be far more complicated.)

[ejoslin]

I liked the different origins as well. From my spoiled princess Cousland to my ruthless and entitled Aeducan, my BAMF and somewhat broken Tabris to my naive and tough Mahariel... yes, the different perspectives just make the game more interesting.

I'm hoping that the romances in DA2 are as wonderful. I honestly don't see how they can be pulled off, but maybe they'll somehow get something better. Honestly, though, would Alistair's romance have been as wonderful if there fewer awkward, "How do you woo them?" conversations, but with later-relationship conversations put in.  Ah well, I won't expect to be fluttering and sighing over them.  maybe it's a good thing if i keep my expectations low.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 décembre 2010 - 11:53 .

[Corker]

ejoslin wrote...
I honestly don't see how they can be pulled off, but maybe they'll somehow get something better.

Montage scene!

I'm actually kind of serious.  While I imagine Hawke will have the opportunity to be a serial (or parallel) lover with several LIs, I'm very much hoping that if you stick with just one or two, you'll get a different experience.  It's not going to be about falling in love - it's going to be about staying there, after the rush has died down.

In my little world, Hawke and Hawke's LI will make tough decisions together about their future and happiness versus Kirkwall's versus any children they've brought into the world or taken into their home.  What sorts of danger will Hawke's political and military ambitions place his/her family in?  What's the LI have to say about *that*?  

Will the LI even want kids?  Can you see Isabella settling down as a mother?  Would you end the romance over that?  What if Aveline desperately does, but Hawke, not so much.  Perhaps she'll leave.

Anyhoo, I'd expect that if you make some sort of long-term choices, you'd get a montage animation as time passes, perhaps showing you and your LI living out the consequences.

Verrrry different from Origins, but hopefully just as engaging.

[ejoslin]

That WOULD be interesting, actually. It would be amazing if they were to implement something like that, where the actual direction of the romances changed depending on decisions made earlier in the game. It would give the game a lot of replay value as well.



My big fear is that the romances will be reduced to nothing but achievements. You'll get the "big scenes" but none of the little ones that make the big ones more believable.

[Corker]

Aw, well, the movies tell me that all you have to do is let a lady engineer her own failed escape attempt from some National Socialists, then fight a room full of snakes with her, and she'll be kissing your elbow on a pirate freighter in no time.*



*Results may vary if you're not Harrison Ford.

[Corker]

ZevDLC Chanter's Board quests.

So even though we're not doing the DLC anymore, I have rather a bit of writing done for it, and thought it might be of interest.  I'll be posting more over the next few days.  Happy Holidays!

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...
My big fear is that the romances will be reduced to nothing but achievements. You'll get the "big scenes" but none of the little ones that make the big ones more believable.

I agree, I noticed that with Origin, especially Leliana and Zevran, were considered 'achievement-romances' by a lot of people. I'm afraid that the romances in DA2 will be of the 'just to get the achievement'-things.

Zevran's romance is my favourite, I'm not even sure which one is second, Alistair or Morrigan (have Morri only done once), but I hope they will include a romance with the same depth as Zev's in DA2. I have no idea who i should romance for as far as we know companions...
- Varric, absolutely not. Not attracted to dwarves people shorter than myself/Hawke.
- Isabela, looking forward to her romance actually, I expect sort of the same depth as Zevran's -> need to put energy in the relationship to get her to really love you (I think & hope). Besides that she is the most beautiful gaming character I have ever seen. o.o'
- MEG (mysterious elf guy), Gaider wrote him and apparently he once said that he would love to write a romance for a character like Nathaniel was (don't know the exact words; sturdy, stoic or something). Could be interesting, Nathaniel was squee-worthy.
- Aveline, not sure.. if she is a LI she will probably be male-only and I will play mostly fem-Hawke.

Anyway, if I don't like the romances at all, I have good reason to keep playing origins.

Modifié par Ramante, 10 décembre 2010 - 07:18 .

[ejoslin]

Ramante wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
My big fear is that the romances will be reduced to nothing but achievements. You'll get the "big scenes" but none of the little ones that make the big ones more believable.

I agree, I noticed that with Origin, especially Leliana and Zevran, were considered 'achievement-romances' by a lot of people. I'm afraid that the romances in DA2 will be of the 'just to get the achievement'-things.

Zevran's romance is my favourite, I'm not even sure which one is second, Alistair or Morrigan (have Morri only done once), but I hope they will include a romance with the same depth as Zev's in DA2. I have no idea who i should romance for as far as we know companions...
- Varric, absolutely not. Not attracted to dwarves people shorter than myself/Hawke.
- Isabela, looking forward to her romance actually, I expect sort of the same depth as Zevran's -> need to put energy in the relationship to get her to really love you (I think & hope). Besides that she is the most beautiful gaming character I have ever seen. o.o'
- MEG (mysterious elf guy), Gaider wrote him and apparently he once said that he would love to write a romance for a character like Nathaniel was (don't know the exact words; sturdy, stoic or something). Could be interesting, Nathaniel was squee-worthy.
- Aveline, not sure.. if she is a LI she will probably be male-only and I will play mostly fem-Hawke.

Anyway, if I don't like the romances at all, I have good reason to keep playing origins.

I also am not wanting a varric romance.  I would LOVE a dwarf/dwarf romance, possibly a m/m dwarf/human, but a m/f dwarf/human...  not so much.  But a lot of females complained about the height difference between Zevran/HNF, a LOT of them did, and i imagine that there would be a lot more complaints about a dwarf/Hawke, especially if that were the only m/f romance.

Zevran's romance was surprising in the depth of it, and so many people just miss that completely due to bugs causing the relationship to never update to love properly, thinking the first offer of the earring is it, and of course the stupid gate scene.

An interesting thing, I think at least -- I was fixing one more thing in my Zevran Kisses mod (gah, i had put a bug in -- one of my female elf kisses wasn't triggering properly).  The 'friendship' declaration he gives, this actually is much like the personal quest aftertalks the other LIs have and you can completely unset the friendship/love with all but a couple of dialog choices.  You can convince him that he is right to trust someone, or you can convince him that he is right, that everyone just is out for themselves.

I never looked at the conversation that way before.

[Ramante]

ejoslin wrote...

An interesting thing, I think at least -- I was fixing one more thing in my Zevran Kisses mod (gah, i had put a bug in -- one of my female elf kisses wasn't triggering properly).  The 'friendship' declaration he gives, this actually is much like the personal quest aftertalks the other LIs have and you can completely unset the friendship/love with all but a couple of dialog choices.  You can convince him that he is right to trust someone, or you can convince him that he is right, that everyone just is out for themselves.

I never looked at the conversation that way before.

I think it is a shame that Zev didn't have a personal quest. Dealing with Taliesen was of course important for Zevran but it missed something. A personal quest for Zevran could have so much potential, they coulde have done a million things with it, but they didn't..

I need to update my mods again, I noticed some of them have new versions and that sort of things. Going to install Morrigan's fixpack as a dazip this time, because it refuses to work when I install it manually. -.-

[ejoslin]

@Corker you are such an amazing writer. It is a shame that the mod wasn't happening, but those really are fun to read through.

@Ramante I do agree more could have been done with Zevran. But, you know, I think befriending Zevran IS his personal quest, with Taliesen being the defining moment. If that makes sense at all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 décembre 2010 - 12:38 .

[Tigress M]

I'm sure you've all heard this a million times, but for me, this was my first and I seriously laughed out loud!

Party banter (paraphrasing):

Shale: Most Golems are slaves to whoever holds their control rod.

Zevran: Funny, it works much the way for us, as well.

Bera (and her driver) just lost it. That was priceless!

And since I'm here... have some Bera and Zev steaminess:

[mousestalker]

Apropos of nothing and for the record.

I'm redoing my canon warden in a new playthrough. She's Aithne Tabris. The first go around (almost a year ago) she was my second character. My first character had been spurned by Alistair so I wasn't going to repeat that mistake with number two. Zevran seemed sleazy (at the time) so I romanced Leliana.

Now that I know the game, I want her to have the best fit possible. That's Zevran. The ZDF makes his romance an absolute delight. Also, there are some appearance mods that make it possible for her to be almost exactly the way she ought to be.

So I'm redoing her from scratch.

It's all ejoslin's fault. I blame her.

Modifié par mousestalker, 11 décembre 2010 - 02:28 .

[ejoslin]

Gah, I'm so glad! Enjoy!

[Corker]

ZevDLC Courtesan's Guild Quests

That's right, because there weren't enough random groups of people seeking the Warden's help.  The Courtesan's Guild doesn't like that new Knight Commander and want to blackmail and/or seduce him.  These are the quests that can set his status to Hostile!  Or you can be a good member of the Chantry and rat out the Courtesans.

[ejoslin]

SO quiet here!



Gah, playing through on a city elf, and I realized that, even if I have no intention of romancing Zevran, his talk about his mom being a Dalish always melts me.



such amazing voice acting.

[mousestalker]

Question for the forumites: In your canon run, where do you see Zevran in five years after Origins? Where is he after ten years? How does he spend the rest of his life? Does he stay with your Warden, if you were involved?