8061 réponses à ce sujet

[Alexmancer]

I do think he felt it was something expected of him, at least at first. It's really hard to get around something you have been taught your entire life. And then all of a sudden, this person that I thought I was obligated to sleep with is someone I have feelings for. This is scary! I dunno, that's what I saw. xD

[ejoslin]

It's a reasonable interpretation. It actually would be interesting having the option open to a warden who wasn't hostile, as the romance can be started before Zevran is even eligible to be interested. In fact, you can start the romance in every non-hostile conversation with him before the warden selects a dialog choice that cuts it off completely.

That could make for a very exploitative dynamic. While it does make me uncomfortable, given his upbringing, it's plausible.  But then I'd have to wonder could he really fall in love in that situation -- at what point do the barriers go up and once they're up, how can they come down?  You would think that at that point, the warden is just another master rather than someone who is his lover.  I would think those would be different things.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mars 2013 - 06:44 .

[Alexmancer]

It would be INCREDIBLY hard, but it probably can be done. It would end up with a lot of angst on both sides I'm sure.

[BloodsongVengeance]

zevran giving sex without being in love totally works for me. or, even caring. he treats sex as if it is nothing-- he was raised and trained to be a **** (trained, insamuch as it let him do his assassin job), and love... well, look what a disaster that turned out to be for him.

are you talking about the warden initiating the sex? even before zevran offers 'the massage'? i thought zevran turned that down. or would, based on his line about 'what, is there something that needs assassinating in your tent?' i thought that meant 'no.' lol! but i've never played that yet, a warden who made the advances.


it's also not clear (at least to me), if zevran is like 'i will give sex to ensure the continued mercy of this person' or if he's like 'i will give sex to make this person attached to me and less likely to be able to kill me.' um... if there's a difference. one is like payment, the other is like manipulation. one makes him more the slave/victim, the other makes him the one in control.

uhhh, and i don't know what the point is. just thinking.

[ejoslin]

Oh, I was just saying that when the character was written and well into the programming, the sex was supposed to happen later in the relationship than what ended up in the game. I wonder what prompted the change, because it can change the motivations quite a bit.

(edit) I am talking about if the warden initiates the sex, not the massage.  "Is there something in your tent that needs assassinating," is most definitely NOT a turn down, and that scenario can lead to the biggest approval gain in the game -- up to +23 approval points depending on dialog choices. (end edit)

Here's the actual flag (it's pretty easy to read) with notes for when the warden can approach Zevran for sex. What I notice is both the notes (the // part) AND the condition (bCare) make it clear that originally he was supposed to be at "care" though obviously, it will appear when he's at "interested" instead. The dlg file also notes that he's supposed to be at care.

When I asked if I should make that change, most people preferred that I not. And in truth, since this applies to both the love making AND, in a separate flag, to the talk about his sexual history, it's most likely a deliberate change -- perhaps made during the playtesting. It certainly can change the feeling of the romance and the dynamic of the character.

//IF: APP_ZEVRAN_ROMANCE_ACTIVE
//and IF: APP_ZEVRAN_IS_CARE
//and IF: party is in camp
int bActive = WR_GetPlotFlag(PLT_GENPT_APP_ZEVRAN, APP_ZEVRAN_ROMANCE_ACTIVE, TRUE);
int bCare = WR_GetPlotFlag(PLT_GENPT_APP_ZEVRAN, APP_ZEVRAN_IS_INTERESTED, TRUE);
int bAtCamp = WR_GetPlotFlag(PLT_MNP000PT_GENERIC, MAIN_PLOT_GENERIC_PARTY_AT_CAMP, TRUE);
nResult = bActive && bCare && bAtCamp;

ETA: It would be a trivial change to make this trigger when the romance is active only which is what would cause the lovemaking to be started even earlier -- after one casual flirt, really.  That is the situation that I could see as very exploitative.  It would be an interesting way to RP a warden as well -- if the warden ended up falling in love the more he and Zevran spoke.  I am VERY tempted, actually, to try a game with the love making enabled at non-hostile levels AND for the sexual history talk to happen only after Zevran is at care.  It would definitely show a growing trust despite the both of them.  It also would add a lot more meaning to that talk Zevran has with the warden at 26+ (warm) or (interested) where he wants to know the Wardens' plans.  

URGH! I don't even play DAO any more and I'm setting up a new RP and just modified a script to enable it.    

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 mars 2013 - 03:20 .

[Ewlar]

Romance Morrigan well. But the "witch hunt" my hero no went. Why would he Morrigan, when he has the Zevran?
They went to the Antiva.

Love stories are not impressive Hawk. He was alone.

[Alexmancer]

Hawke is related to my Warden. He will love elves!

[Aroihkin]

Yeah, the very real possibility of Zevran feeling obligated to sleep with the Warden, either out of a sense of debt or to secure his place in the group, is exactly the thing that has Alley flipping so many tables at him in Immovable Object. XD

Tannusen is actually like "hey whatever makes you feel secure, bro". And then, you know, flips Zevran over a table. XD

[Corker]

I did a few fills for the weekly prompts, back in the day, with my Amell, exactly to explore the dynamic of a dark!Warden who doesn't actually care for Zevran, but can make him care for her. I never let her get him to Love, though, for pretty much the reason ejoslin gave. Had she feigned real interest and caring, it might have worked, but instead she took him at face value and responded in kind. And he's known way too many people like that to fall for it entirely, I think.

[tklivory]

I've been thinking over the Wardens I've paired with Zevran one way or another, and I think my most tragic one is the one he has with Jorath. I tear up just thinking about it, sometimes (when the chocolate runs low). Someday I hope to write that story, but it will be hard going.

Theirs is an interesting relationship because they start purely with the physical aspect of a relationship, and both have only pleasurable and practical expectations. Jorath uses Zevran for sex and because he respects Zevran (where he doesn't respect any of the other companions), and Zevran uses Jorath for protection from the Crows and feels like he doesn't have to hide who he is (aside from his weakness of loving and then killing Rinna). It turns into something more emotional for both, and then tragedy happens.

Yeah, I'll write it.... someday.

Modifié par tklivory, 08 mars 2013 - 10:19 .

[Alexmancer]

Aroihkin wrote...

Yeah, the very real possibility of Zevran feeling obligated to sleep with the Warden, either out of a sense of debt or to secure his place in the group, is exactly the thing that has Alley flipping so many tables at him in Immovable Object. XD

Tannusen is actually like "hey whatever makes you feel secure, bro". And then, you know, flips Zevran over a table. XD

mmm Zevran for dinner?

[Klidi]

I think Zevran sees sex mostly as fun - he doesn't link it with "relationship" or "emotions". The only that matters with sex is that it is done well. That he won't have sex too early is, I think, more the survival instict - after all, he used sex to get near to his marks, so he could kill them. He needs to trust the Warden cares for him at least enough so he/she wouldn't do the same.

When he offered the 'massage' to Airam, he said it because he hoped that all those confusing emotions he had regarding Air were just sexual frustration and will disappear after he had a nice little affair with him. Air misunderstoods it for the obligation to please him as the new Master, gets offended that Zev thinks so low of BOTH of them and punches Zevran it the nose. xD

[Alexmancer]

I really loved that scene with Air

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, it also would be interesting to unlock the dialog where he talks about him and Taliesen for wardens romantically involved rather than just for wardens when he walks away from the fight. I wonder if I could load in an old B2B and make it happen smoothly without rebuilding a wavebank.

As far as Zevran only viewing sex as fun, I think that's a big part of his personality -- he does, until he doesn't. But even when he confesses to being confused, that's ambiguous as well. "Ever since you asked me to your tent..." Does that refer to after he falls in love, or, well, ever since the first time the warden asked him to the tent? For wardens who don't ask until after he falls in love, it's easy, but for those who have been making regular tent trips?

I love all the ways you can interpret the romance!

Edit: Looking at the dialog, no.  It doesn't work unless he leaves the fight.  It's just a couple of lines, but gah, they give so much insight into that situation.  But yeh, his leaving to begin with just has too much meaning.  Ok, more coffee for me

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 mars 2013 - 03:54 .

[Alexmancer]

Mmmm coffee. Sounds good right about now. xD

[BloodsongVengeance]

in Bannon & Zevran, Zevran tells this to Alistair:

"Sex to me is like candy. You get it as often as you can; it is sweet; you enjoy it; and once you're done with it," he spread his empty hands, "that's it-- it is gone and you go on with your day."

not that i'm THE zevran canon author or anything, but... i always rather liked that line.

[Alexmancer]

Zevran is like candy. The spicy kind! xD

[ejoslin]

*grin* There is no canon when it comes to Zevran's romance. I think that's part of why the people who love him really love him so much; from almost the start, it can be casual or extremely committed, and while it always ends up extremely committed, there can be varying levels of drama in between.

As it is, right now, vanilla game, before Zevran will touch the warden, there will be a discussion regarding their future and if they are romantically involved. I love that talk.

Actually, it's because of that talk that I get annoyed when people complain about Zevran "tricking" them. He asks, straight out, if he and the warden have a romantic relationship and he asks if they have a future together.

In fact, it's like the writers bent over backwards to make sure no one accidentally turned on that relationship -- no matter what romance starter line you pick, Zevran makes sure that that is what was meant. The only people "tricked" into a relationship with Zevran were the ones who didn't pay attention to the dialog and only paid attention to the approval given for the conversation.

[Ewlar]

You are right. Zevran always honest with the warden.
He at once do not want sex, because it will show its subordinate position in the party: concubine overseer. Zevran first get credibility and respect + novel is beautiful.

Tired of the novel? If the warden and Zevran stay together, they have become true couple.

I think that women are less likely luck with Zevran. In Antiva different attitude to women. She will feel dependent.
People will always want to dominate.

The best novel - elf. There will be equality.

[Alexmancer]

Yes, I do like how open and honest Zevran is from the get-go. It's like he goes out of his way to make the Warden feel more comfortable. 

Modifié par Alexmancer, 08 mars 2013 - 10:38 .

[Sheridan2010]

Ewlar wrote...

You are right. Zevran always honest with the warden.
He at once do not want sex, because it will show its subordinate position in the party: concubine overseer. Zevran first get credibility and respect + novel is beautiful.

Tired of the novel? If the warden and Zevran stay together, they have become true couple.

I think that women are less likely luck with Zevran. In Antiva different attitude to women. She will feel dependent.
People will always want to dominate.

The best novel - elf. There will be equality.

In your opinion, a female-human  with Zevran no future? So maybe we should send to hell such a love affair? Perhaps Zevran is not worthy of a woman who knows her worth?<_<

[Ewlar]

I always write: Zevran - the most honest partner. Haters surprised. They will never understand such a wonderful character because did not want to talk to him.

[Ewlar]

Zevran will love and protect a woman, as if he was her husband and the owner. Not as an equal partner.

Kusland wants to make the team, and Zevran in Antiva does not want to obey. Best novel, IMHO, a male elf.

Modifié par Ewlar, 08 mars 2013 - 10:58 .

[Sheridan2010]

Then a woman has nothing to do with Zevran. Let entertains gay - this is his calling. I will send him to hell and destroy the romance.

[Alexmancer]

I am so confused now...