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[mousestalker]

Zevran can wind Wynne up like no one else.

[BloodsongVengeance]

wow, where'd all these people come from?? ;D

hey, glad you all stopped by and had a chat!

(did you do that, aro, or was it the troll? who seemed at least partially willing to discuss stuff, to me anyway.)

by the way, aro, that's very astute of you about the 'zev shields.' that's still not going to stop me from wanting to do you severe bodily harm after that one comic page, but at least it will delay it while i sit here, impressed.

@fae:
wow, that is astute, too. i've never been in/around the ali fandom, but i can see how that makes sense.
in fact... i think i'm that way about alistair to some extent, too. i see this guy, he's sooooo sweet. so i like build him up in my mind around that core concept, and that doesn't necessarily follow his original or canon design.

though i suppose i do that with zevran to some extent, too. but i think in his case i more closely follow the blueprint. (although lord knows, i make up all kinds of crap about zevran that totally whereas in alistair's case, i don't care what the blueprint is.

[ejoslin]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't know much about the Leliana fanbase, to be honest, so I wouldn't be able to say if they're open-minded (generally speaking) or not.

I'm preeeeeeeeeeetty sure that a picture of Zevran and Leliana making out wouldn't cause nearly as big of a fanspat as Zevran and Alistair though.

In the eternal lyrics of Payroo..."Alistair the Warden is so pure."

All I can say is that Morrigan fans squeed in their male way over the one Morrigan/Leliana picture I posted.  It would have been safe in the Leli thread as well, except I am not sure it would have been appreciated.  But Leliana fans actually are all sorts of awesome.  I've had some really good experiences with Ali fans here as well, and no one flamed me for posting a Zev/Ali pic. 

Actually, BSN back in the day was my favorite place to be, and I spent way too much time here.  When DA2 came out and I ventured into those forums, I left VERY quickly.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I should post the Leli/Morri pic here (NSFW), so here's a link, and here's Zev and Ali.  I seriously love the HM/Zev cutscene -- first time I saw it, I was stunned at how hot it was.



Okay, catching up on the conversation and will probably edit!

Edit: Heh, am a bit afraid to mention all the Zevran modding that goes on here   But my screenies give it away!

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 mars 2013 - 03:05 .

[Alexmancer]

I'm actually an Alistar/Leliana fan. I don't usually see many of those xD

Edit: And omg yes, the HM/Zev scene is fantastic!

Modifié par Alexmancer, 27 mars 2013 - 05:55 .

[mousestalker]

I'm more of a lurker than anything else. But I've been lurking from the beginning!

As for fave LI's, it depends. The only constant is that I have a habit of pairing my dwarves with Alistair.

[ejoslin]

 Oh, here's some Alistair/Leliana (NSFW).  I know a lot of Alistair fans got really upset that he and Leliana hooked up in Darkspawn Chronicles.  I don't think Leliana fans got nearly as upset -- at least, not around here.

[Alexmancer]

ejoslin wrote...

 Oh, here's some Alistair/Leliana (NSFW).  I know a lot of Alistair fans got really upset that he and Leliana hooked up in Darkspawn Chronicles.  I don't think Leliana fans got nearly as upset -- at least, not around here.

The first time I played the game and got to the cutscene where she sings, Alistair just happened to be in the right place on the other side of the campfire when she walked over. So they got in this really nice stare that was just... fireworks. I was thinking, yup, they're totally boning each other. So from then on, I was a fan. xD

[Aroihkin]

DeadlyHaven wrote...
Recruited Zevran for the first time (never done it before in one of my 10+ playthroughs) and I LOVE him! He's hilarious, and his romance is a lot better than I had expected. I'm wondering why I've never recruited him before.

He is ridiculously awesome, isn't he? XD

BloodsongVengeance wrote...

wow, where'd all these people come from?? ;D

hey, glad you all stopped by and had a chat!

(did you do that, aro, or was it the troll? who seemed at least partially willing to discuss stuff, to me anyway.)

by the way, aro, that's very astute of you about the 'zev shields.' that's still not going to stop me from wanting to do you severe bodily harm after that one comic page, but at least it will delay it while i sit here, impressed.

I still say that when people want to do bodily harm to me after I update something, it means I'm doing it right. XD

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ejoslin wrote...

 Oh, here's some Alistair/Leliana (NSFW).  I know a lot of Alistair fans got really upset that he and Leliana hooked up in Darkspawn Chronicles.  I don't think Leliana fans got nearly as upset -- at least, not around here.

It's like no one who is not the PC may DARE to lay hands on him! I don't get it XD Would they be happier if he was 'forever alone!! D:'? I thought Ali and Lels would make a pretty good pair, and if the PC wasn't around they would be the logical two to couple up.

Ah well. It's nice to hear the Leliana fans are harder to offend.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 28 mars 2013 - 01:58 .

[Ewlar]

Alistair Leliana + = flirting. Why not? Moreover, that hint at the possibility of the game there.

But Alistair and Zevran? Zevran can love a man, but that does not mean that he loves all men in a row.

IMHO, Zevran pairing with everyone - it's not a sign of love for him.

[Ewlar]

We were trying to write about Zevran (here http://dgaider.tumblr.com/). We would like to thank to Мr. Gaider and ask a question, but it ignores not only the character, but also his fans.
So, spread the full version of the letter here - let it be, as a memory.

Esteemed Mr.Gaider!

We want to thank you for your contribution to "Dragon Age", especially for one wonderfull character - Zevran Arainai. He turned out to be so lively, that it's difficult to perceive him as an imaginary character, he seems to be a real man (elf ). Zevran is the most outstanding and charismatic. He is the interesting game character, amiable and living. His deliberately cynical position in life contrasts with wish for righting a wrong and helping to men who suffering. Zevran is a person who has his own option and inner core, who hadn’t been broken by severe life. He is honest with the main character who has made friends with him; and the romance with Zevran is the most beautiful in the game. Such character can't be created without putting a little part of your own soul into the character. And you did it brilliantly! Thank You very much for it. We hope that Zev's history hasn't came to the end and we’ll hear about Arainai in books and comics and (certainly!) games.

With great respect, we are worshipers of your work, from spaces of former USSR.

Modifié par Ewlar, 28 mars 2013 - 11:02 .

[Corker]

Ewlar wrote...

But Alistair and Zevran? Zevran can love a man, but that does not mean that he loves all men in a row.

IMHO, Zevran pairing with everyone - it's not a sign of love for him.

I have never paired Zevran with Sten.  And that time with Oghren, it was all really an Aeducan plot to get free pizza and nothing actually happened. (Except the running away.  That happened.)

[Klidi]

Ewlar wrote...

Alistair Leliana + = flirting. Why not? Moreover, that hint at the possibility of the game there.

But Alistair and Zevran? Zevran can love a man, but that does not mean that he loves all men in a row.

IMHO, Zevran pairing with everyone - it's not a sign of love for him.

Alistair is not "anyone", he's a man who is Zevran's comrade and friend for a year. If the author deciedes to take it further and write a romance between them, it's just as valid as pairing Zevran / Leliana or any other. It all depends on author's vision, and skills, and usually it is a sign of big love for both characters.

[Sheridan2010]

Who ever said that Alistair and Zevran are "friends"?
Why such a crazy idea - that these two characters are to love one another? If the game even hints at such nonsense is not present?

As well the author can arrange Zevran sex with a dog and find it no less "logical" explanation.

May be enough to shame Zevran, pairing his  with anyone, in the name of  irrepressible imagination?<_<

Modifié par aidana, 28 mars 2013 - 04:08 .

[Klidi]

Zevran said so. In the game.

Your insults to everyone who doesn't write Zevran the way you two do and don't pair him with persons you two approve are really getting boring, you know.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Comrades I'll grant, but I don't think Zevran and Alistair are friends. Zevran doesn't respect Alistair enough in DA:O for that, and while Alistair doesn't hate Zev to the extent he hates Morrigan, I don't see him liking the elf enough for friendship.

It takes ages for Zevran to trust the PC enough to genuinely consider them a friend. After the Blight, sure, but not during DA:O IMO.

Calling someone a friend doesn't mean he necessarily thinks of them as such. He's a Crow, and knows the value of using certain words.

My 2 cents.

[Klidi]

I think that's the matter of interpretation - in my story they do become friends. Not best buddies forever, but they went through together enough to trust each other with life...

But if we're taking the canon that strictly, then Zevran/Leliana is absolutely impossible, as she very clearly says that she's not interested. And I think that trusting a bard would be even more difficult than to trust an innocent Chantry boy.

Just my opinion.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I'm not saying that Zev and Leliana are possible either

Zevran's trust in his companions is only half the issue, anyway. Alistair makes it clear in his gossip dialogue with the PC that he doesn't trust Zev at all -- I mean, Zev does try to kill the two of you. Alistair's a guy who doesn't let go of grudges easily. Zevran's a guy who amuses himself making other people look foolish or feel uncomfortable in banter. I can see a logical progression of trusting each other in battle and such, eventually, but not genuine like, at least not during the game.

Can they work together, though? Sure.

I'm not going to use this to tell people how to write their stories though. We all have different ideas on the characters. It'd be boring if it were otherwise.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 29 mars 2013 - 02:57 .

[Ewlar]

Zevran and Alistair can work together. They are professionals, so trust each other in battle. They can help each other. They're on the same team.
In life they were not friends.

They can not be lovers. This is the logic. It's canon.

If paired Zevran all - this is not a sign of respect to the character.

Zevran loves both men and women. But this does not mean that he will have sex with any man or woman who is looking.

If a gamer wants a serious novel, it is necessary for a long time to make friends with Zevran.

[ejoslin]

I think Zevran and Alistair could have become friends -- it shows in the banters that were kept out of the game by a data entry error. It also shows, though, if the warden does the ultimate sacrifice. Zevran sticks around for awhile, working for the crown, before going back to Antiva. Of course, he also sticks around if Anora is sole queen, but Anora being sole queen in that circumstance is a bit unusual, so I can see someone's head canon of them being friends being supported through that slide as well.

I think it also depends on how you define "friend." Zevran only ever lets one person close -- the warden. And Alistair will never be someone that Zevran actually respects, but I think he ends up liking Alistair.  Someone you like and enjoy spending time with is generally more than an acquaintance, even if you don't feel very close to the person.

Edit: And yes, Zevran and Alistair cannot be lovers, but I think this is determined more by the fact that Alistair is 100% straight according to DG than by Zevran.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 mars 2013 - 12:39 .

[Klidi]

Well, let's agree we disagree. xD I'm not interested in Mr. Gaider's headcanon - for me, the only canon is what I see in the game. And in the game I think it's clear that they can be friends.

And if someone sees a potential in that relationship and can write it in convincing and realistic way, then no one has right to tell them it's wrong, illogical, crazy, or whatever. That's all I'm saying.

After all, NO fanfiction is 100% canon - we all add and change things to how we want them. I see no reason why pairing should be any different. Honestly, I don't care - if the author is talented and skill enough to convince me that Sten could fall in love with Zev, or that Ogren could romance Wynne or that Morrigan could be in love with Leliana, make it work without making them OOC - why not. I'm all for it.

[Alexmancer]

All I'm going to say is, some people really just don't seem to understand how friendship and love works. It is NOT a logical thing, in fact it RARELY is. So trying to say that relationships can't happen because of logic and canon just doesn't work. 

And the fact that Alistair is considered straight? Means absolutely nothing. As a gay man, I know from experience that you can go beyond that sort of thing. I've been with plenty of relationships that with men that had considered themselves straight before they met me. It might be uncommon, but it is NOT impossible.

Modifié par Alexmancer, 29 mars 2013 - 04:35 .

[ejoslin]

But Alistair's creator says that Alistair is completely straight. As a straight woman (a solid 0 on the Kinsey scale), all I can say is this -- I think a lot of people are a little bi-sexual. However, if you really are not attracted to the same gender at all, it's just not going to happen. I do know people who are bi-curious, for example, who are mainly straight but occasionally attracted to someone of the same gender. That happens to people who have a preference for one gender but occasionally are attracted to the other as well, but still identify themselves as gay or straight. But for someone who is completely straight, the attraction just is not there.

And there have been times in my life where I wished I was bi. But it just isn't in me.

ETA: I don't care how people ship Alistair.  I was being pedantic, not judgemental.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 mars 2013 - 04:53 .

[Klidi]

Some people say that some of Alistair's remarks to MC can be understood as flirting. Others disagree. And it's their decision, nobody else's. Whatever the author says about the story outside of it, after it is published, is completely irrelevant.

And it's not disrespect, it's simply how it is. No author has right to order people what should they think about characters, or how they should understand behaviour of characters. Even if readers or players understand things differently than the author intended, they have no right to intervene. It's out of their hands.