8061 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Oh, I thought Alistair was bisexual in my first playthrough -- it was the licking a lamppost in winter comment. ALSO, there are a couple of lines that should go to females that go to males, and vice versa, which furthers that impression. I am definitely NOT criticizing anyone when it comes to this.

Actually, my original point was that the reason Alistair/Zevran wouldn't couple would be because of Alistair's sexuality as the author of Alistair intended, not that Alistair and Zevran weren't credible as a couple. Whether they are or are not credible is up to an individual's head canon. But just saying that Alistair and Zevran wouldn't get together because of Zevran isn't really the reason I could see them not getting together.

Edit: Ooooh, ToP.  



ETA: There is a line which goes to males which was meant to go to females where Alistair tells the warden that he's cute when he's angry.  This is definitely a data entry error, and I think the biggest reason that many people were surprised that he wasn't romancable by a male.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 mars 2013 - 06:29 .

[coldwetn0se]

^points up to ejoslin's screenie.*giggle*
Now there's a pair if I ever saw.......

Single player game, "optional fanfiction/RP write ups"....nup. Don't see a problem with anything anyone wants to make up for themselves.

A good example might be Fenris and Anders; not a pair I personally ship...ever. But, I have (by knowing choice) read some Fenders fanfic. Some was well written, most just good ole' fashion smut. *shrug* I'm fine with that. XD

In the end, doesn't affect my perception or personal interpretation in the slightest. And with a number of variables, choices, and enough open endedness, I would say there is plenty of room for people to come up with whatever works for them....or hell, just for fun! Nothing wrong with AU either.....

[BloodsongVengeance]

OH!!!!!! ejo!!

omg! needing brain bleach....!!!!

Aroihkin wrote...

BloodsongVengeance wrote...

by the way, aro, that's very astute of you about the 'zev shields.' that's still not going to stop me from wanting to do you severe bodily harm after that one comic page, but at least it will delay it while i sit here, impressed.

I still say that when people want to do bodily harm to me after I update something, it means I'm doing it right. XD

i know you knew that's what i meant. hopefully the others knew that. or do now.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Saying that you're writing a character Out Of Character doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. It means you're writing them OOC. Lots of people do, with wild abandon, logical progression, subtle variations, or accidental slips to the 'core' character. No one's going to stop you, but it doesn't make it any less OOC no matter how logically or well it's been written.

It's nothing to get defensive over. It defines a good chunk of the fandom and plenty of enjoyable stories have OOC variations of the canon characters.

[mousestalker]

^What SoLD said.

I habitually write fanfic characters out of their characters. I may not write the best, but I can write crack with the worst of ya'll.  <3

Modifié par mousestalker, 30 mars 2013 - 02:21 .

[Bhryaen]

lol repeatedly at the Alis-Loggy romance above...

On options for a Zev-Alis romance, doesn't the closing of the game end with the statement that everyone goes their own way? Of course, Wynne and Shale were supposed to pair up (would've made a great DLC campaign) and the warden can pair up with Zev or others, but it was fairly clear that it was a matter of a motley assortment of allies coming together for a common purpose and scattering once that purpose was fulfilled. Not that I disagree with player artistic liberties, however...

On the tendency of the Alis fans to balk at a romance between their squeebot and Leli, I don't see why- not why such fans might behave that way but why they'd bother to be concerned. One of the great parts of DAO is how things turn out differently for the various backgrounds depending on which one you choose for your warden- the mysterious dead Aeducan middle child, the mysterious dead Alienage friend of Soris, the mysterious dead comrade of Leske. In Darkspawn Chronicles your warden isn't around, so... Alis and Leli got together. *shrugs*

[Corker]

Bhryaen wrote...
On options for a Zev-Alis romance, doesn't the closing of the game end with the statement that everyone goes their own way? Of course, Wynne and Shale were supposed to pair up (would've made a great DLC campaign) and the warden can pair up with Zev or others, but it was fairly clear that it was a matter of a motley assortment of allies coming together for a common purpose and scattering once that purpose was fulfilled.

Until Awakening came out, you could potentially have epilogues that suggested that Wynne stayed in Denerim as a court advisor (if you don't recruit Shale), Oghren was a general in the royal army, Alistair's the king, and friendzone!Zevran hung out to train Grey Wardens.   Leliana can lead a quest back to the Sacred Ashes - not impossible to think that she partners with Br. Genitivi, of Denerim, and so may herself be in and out of the capital. Not exactly still "a party," but potentially close enough to get together for tea and cupcakes every so often.  

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I think the comics have Alistair getting some information from Zevran regarding an Antivan contact, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility some of the characters keep in touch (as much as you can in a quasi-medieval society).

[ejoslin]

Actually, Zevran sticks around and trains recruits for a romanced Gray Warden who returns to the Wardens (which of course Awakening totally ignored) -- only romanced companions get the epilogue slides when the warden survives. However, at the post-coronation ceremony, Zevran does offer to stick around for a friend or romance partner.

As far as why people would get upset over the Alistair/Leliana pairing? I think there are a few reasons. Leliana is actually a bit of a polarizing character. If someone likes her, they really like her a lot, but if someone doesn't, and many don't, they cannot stand her. There are people who think that Leliana is always playing a role and think that she would be using Alistair could be one reason.

Anyway, here's my own rant regarding Leliana: I've heard the devs say the reason they included her in the series is because she is the most popular of the companions according to their data. I'm assuming they're talking about how many people romanced her. However, just about everyone who did her personal quest ended up romancing her -- it's a bug. And many people ended up with her because there are a few breakups with her that just plain out do not end the romance (another bug). In fact, there were a ton of people complaining on the forums when Awakening came out that they got Leliana's slide instead of Zevran's -- the reason for this was those bugs, and people not realizing they were even in a romance with her were considered her partner, and her slides had priority over Zevran's. So you could have her at -24 (blank) and Zevran at 100 (Love) and you'd end up with Leliana's slides.

Anyway, yeh, ranting done.

[DahliaLynn]

Hi there

I just released a mod you may be interested in. It's called "Sleep Until Dawn" and allows you to go to sleep in camp with your love interest, alone, or with dog. Hope you like it  

Mod Site on Nexus

[Klidi]

*insert most fangirlish squeak here* Dahlia, this is so beautiful! Thank you so much for this beautiful mod! Zev and Air send their thanks and air kisses.

Modifié par Klidi, 01 avril 2013 - 10:08 .

[Bhryaen]

Ah, I stand corrected on the post-crisis party relations then. :-P Thedas is a small world after all. We can travel from Denerim to the Ashes Temple in a single click! Mostly I said it because that was my impression at the end of my 2nd full playthrough (just finished), this time bringing Zev along as a fellow rogue. (There's so much Zev dialog you miss if you're not in the right place, right other companion along, right dialog choice... Anyway...) I had a female city elf and didn't romance Zev but had the option to pal around with him whether I'd agreed to stay and help King Squeebot or went a'roaming, so it isn't like everyone had to break off at the end, but I had to do all the work at it. My idea was that she'd pair up with Zev for more adventures by meeting Sten at the wharf in the morning, all three continuing together, now without Morrigan. The end slides didn't quite seem to get my idea though... hehe

So Leliana would drag the poor, hapless Alis into some devious plot? I'm one of those who can't stand Ms. All Things Maker (well, I've learned to tolerate her), but isn't she all about virtue-by-Chantry now? All her redemption sentiments seem hinged on her "visions" rather than her past of "bardic" espionage. Alis isn't the biggest Chantry fan himself, but they both have the advantage of not balking when I do good deeds, so it's conceivable they might be happy enough together. To be fair I've never played Darkspawn Chronicles- just too much revulsion to imagine "winning" it- so I don't know what the Alis-Lelia couple looked like, but still... The party banter between the two of them isn't exactly hostile. Doesn't he ask her for sex advice at one point?

I do know the game made my previous Warden lovers with Zev despite never having the sex scene, so something was off. I presume those dialog mods fix that? This last playthrough I used them and had no discernible glitches.

[Corker]

The Darkspawn Chronicles included a codex entry that said there were rumors that Alistair and Leliana were a thing. That's it, as far as I know.

Leliana has very unorthodox views on religion, actually. She espouses a personal, direct connection to the Maker, unmoderated by priestly authority. I was honestly expecting a rehash of George Bernard Shaw's "St Joan" via her character after Lothering, but it went to a different place. Alistair's cynicism seems to mostly be directed at the religious establishment (he *could* have atheistic leanings, I suppose, but he never discusses his personal faith one way or the other that I recall); Leliana has a better opinion of the Chantry than he does, but she doesn't idolize it. *Idealize* it sometimes, yes, but she has a few dialogues of her own where she pokes fun at priests, too.

Hardened or unhardened, it seems by DA2 that she's reconciled her love for her gods and her love for adventure by working as [spoilers spoilers spoilers]. Which makes sense to me.

I never did make a Warden who was suitable to romance her. My Brosca wanted her to hook up with Alistair. I also ship hardened!Leliana with Zev - for a good time, not for a long time. I think they'd have a ball causing trouble, laughing at people, and buying shoes and boots - and with Anora.

[BloodsongVengeance]

oooooh, i want to cuddle a mabari!!!

Bannon: Don't think so!
Zevran: Wait, they want us to... just sleep? While sleeping? Just... sleep?? ::seems to have trouble with that concept::


@Bhryaen
i think all the end slides have to be taken with a grain of salt. ...especially the ones that call your male warden 'she' and 'her' on the zevran slide. :X
btw, how do you pronounce your name?

[Alexmancer]

Well I'm glad I'm not alone in my interest for Alistair/Leliana. ^^

BloodsongVengeance wrote...

oooooh, i want to cuddle a mabari!!!

Bannon: Don't think so!
Zevran: Wait, they want us to... just sleep? While sleeping? Just... sleep?? ::seems to have trouble with that concept::

Don't you sleep when you're done? Sex comes first, then sleep after. Isn't that logical? Sure you can wake up for more later though... >.>

Modifié par Alexmancer, 02 avril 2013 - 05:08 .

[Bhryaen]

@BloodsongVengeance
Yes, I'm at the point with DAO where "canon" isn't so critical to me anymore, both because I'm just too used to certain portions of the game by now that my imagination naturally wanders and because of that- game limitations. And it's a very detailed game. The writers had to account for an impressive amount of contingencies given the diverse game storyline outcomes. But I had anticipated either an end slide saying Zev and Aedlyn went on travels together, maybe visited Antiva- or that Aedlyn went with Sten and met qunari Gray Wardens or something- maybe a combo of both. Got neither. But I'm undaunted. The narrator just faked it. So what if Aedlyn's real story isn't part of any official record? I know it. :-)

My name is just Brian written in an Olde Englishey sort of way- sort of.

[ejoslin]

Ending slides, not a bug, but handwaved away. Zevran being romanced and the warden returning to the wardens/Awakening is a great example of that. In the slide, Zevran sticks around and helps train new wardens; in Awakening, he's in Antiva. That's not "hearsay and rumor". That's just tossing out an ending. This is done with quite a few of the slides. Cullen is an example I have used in other threads as an unnecessary handwave. There was no real reason to bring him back other than fan service, and it ruined the mage ending for many people by completely discounting their slide.

Alistair not realizing he's not king -- not exactly a bug if you're talking about the Redcliff castle night scene. In order for it to be a bug, there actually has to be a programming error, which there is not. There just isn't alternative dialog -- if you talk to Alistair that night, all the flags are set properly, and the game should behave in all the later scenes as if Anora is queen, but in that discussion, he will refer to himself as king as there is no other dialog there.  How the bug testers missed that one is beyond me.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 avril 2013 - 01:58 .

[Bhryaen]

Just an aside for the Zev thread... I was able to replace Leliana early with Zev this time, and we got to the Haven cult house where I noticed Zev do a dodge move that looked awesome. Maybe just had to be there, but I don't recall that dodge animation happening much. I'd sent him to pickpocket the mage next to the soldier, but the soldier ignored Alistair's nearby Taunt and swung at Zev instead. No problem: Zev just leans back all smooth and casual-like and the cultist's sword whisks by his face tattoo without disturbing a single well-groomed hair... Even those annoying Song of Valor motes couldn't keep up... Then he pickpocketed the soldier and was off without a scratch...









(I'd neglected to hit the dye thingy again after giving him new gloves, so the colors are ugh, but the move looked awesome.)

[Klidi]

Bhryaen wrote...

Just an aside for the Zev thread... I was able to replace Leliana early with Zev this time, and we got to the Haven cult house where I noticed Zev do a dodge move that looked awesome. Maybe just had to be there, but I don't recall that dodge animation happening much. I'd sent him to pickpocket the mage next to the soldier, but the soldier ignored Alistair's nearby Taunt and swung at Zev instead. No problem: Zev just leans back all smooth and casual-like and the cultist's sword whisks by his face tattoo without disturbing a single well-groomed hair... Even those annoying Song of Valor motes couldn't keep up... Then he pickpocketed the soldier and was off without a scratch...

Yes, that move is awesome. I only noticed it once Zev was the last man standing, and he managed to defeat the three remaining enemies by himself, without breaking a sweat. All those dexterity points finally paid off.

[ejoslin]

Faerunner wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ending slides, not a bug, but handwaved away. Zevran being romanced and the warden returning to the wardens/Awakening is a great example of that. In the slide, Zevran sticks around and helps train new wardens; in Awakening, he's in Antiva. That's not "hearsay and rumor". That's just tossing out an ending.

That's what BioWare is good at. I often scratch my head at people who treat their word like the ultimate, revered, indisputable authority on the game, when all I see is them tossing out and making up new lore whenever they feel like it. If they won't follow their own lore, why should I?

Alistair not realizing he's not king -- not exactly a bug if you're talking about the Redcliff castle night scene. In order for it to be a bug, there actually has to be a programming error, which there is not. There just isn't alternative dialog -- if you talk to Alistair that night, all the flags are set properly, and the game should behave in all the later scenes as if Anora is queen, but in that discussion, he will refer to himself as king as there is no other dialog there.  How the bug testers missed that one is beyond me.

Are you serious?! I was always frustrated by the writers' obvious preference for making Alistair king (the game was not subtle about that being the "choice" they wanted you to make), but I was willing to give Alistair's post-Landsmeet "I'm king" dialogue the benefit of the doubt as a bug or bad flag. And now you're tell me they didn't even bother writing alternate dialogue for after the Landsmeet?

I remember many people got upset when Gaider's comic undermined players' choices not to make Alistair king, and he basically said they were being too sensitive and their choices were still valid in their own playthrough. Yet, they didn't even bother writing alternate dialogue acknowledging these choices within the game itself!

"Your choices matter." Bull****!

Oh, according to the devs, it was written and recorded, but it never made it into the game or even the toolset.  It may have been because they ran out of money, but something that major strikes me as just a huge oversight.  Some things were obviously disabled most likely because they ran out of money before they were able to complete them (quite a few things relating to Morrigan, and some relating to Loghain as well), but bleh, I wish they had gotten those sound files at least into the toolset where they could have been used.

Really, I absolutely hate it that they decided to discount the Origins slides.  Bugs bother me, but they aren't so bad as long as they are fixable.  However, deliberately writing things that contradict the endings to an amazing game with a very satisfactory ending for no real good reasons drives me CRAZY!

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 avril 2013 - 09:23 .

[BloodsongVengeance]

@bhry
killer!!!
i wish my zevran were that cool.

Bloodsong's Inner Zevran: What? How am I not cool? I am the coolest Zevran ever!

i doubt that very much.



well if alistair can only say he's king because they didn't put non-king dialogue in... that's still a bug. um, or a 'mistake' i guess you can say, since it isn't computer/programming related.


well, what came first, the epilogue slides or da2? if they had to make the epilogue slides before anyone designed who was where in da2.... well. and if they had to cover every contingency that every endgame slide could involve.... the system breaks down. the only way they could have pulled it off and stayed totally canon was to not have any characters come back. except ones that totally don't matter to the da2 game, and are just 'cameos.' like wandering alistair, i guess. see,whether he shows up or not can be tied to the game end slides. cuz he's not essential to the fool plot of da2.

[ejoslin]

I think there are characters, such as Cullen, they just should not have brought back. There was no need to bring him back -- it didn't make sense, either in his ending slides or really, even how his story went in the game itself. He cracked, period. Whether he also became a murderer or a tyrant depended on a set of circumstances (because of bugs, only mages who made Anora sole queen got those slides). I also think they should not have given characters like Zevran such story-pertinent epilogue slides if they weren't going to continue the character's story arc.

I mean, I get why people who hate Zevran do not want to see him in future games. He's dead for them. BUT... for people who got slides saying he ended up leading the Crows, then the question becomes, whose ending do you discount? The ones who killed him, or the ones who friended/loved him?

What bugs me about Leliana is that if they never brought her back, it would have gibed with her ending slides for the most part (Awakening aside). By bringing her back, they invalidated every ending that involves her. But she is obviously being brought back as fan service. And she does make sense in the story, don't get me wrong. But the only reason she was brought back was because of her popularity, and her popularity via the collected game data is greatly inflated because of in-game bugs.

Regarding whether only-king-Alistair dialog at redcliff is a bug or a gaffe, it really doesn't matter what you call it I suppose. It's not bugged or glitched, though; the code itself there is remarkably good -- I went through that scene with a fine tooth comb and it's a complex scene. In fact, that is what is so amazing to me that the missing dialog wasn't missed -- it's one of the most intricate scenes in the game. There's a counter for his approval -- the notes there are extensive, as are the conditions AND how the conversation will branch depending on where the counter is reading. I can't imagine the writers not noticing that a bunch of that dialog was missing and not pointing that out. So probably it was a bit higher up in the food chain that decided to just leave it out.