8061 réponses à ce sujet

[BloodsongVengeance]

well, the thing with sticking zevran in daii... if you killed him in dao, he didn't show up in daii. if you didn't kill him, then he does. (or so i presume, because i've only played from an import where he was dead.)
they could do that (patch him in, or leave him out), because he wasn't a focal point of the plot. like, say, anders. :X and if he's not doing what his end-slide said, well... he was/will be doing it; he's just taking a side trip.


now making cullen part of the standard plot of daii (and that's just fan-service the same for leliana, isn't it?), and putting leliana in there as this grand inquisitor or whatever-- yeah, that could screw the heck out of anyone's story.


hrmmmm... but... when they made the dao epilogue slides, they hadn't created daii yet. had they? and if zevran et al didn't have 'epic story arc' epilogue slides (just in case they wanted to do something with them in a later game)... wouldn't that just have made dao lame?
ya know? :/


okay, let's see what this does...



i might have posted this already.  sorry :X

Modifié par BloodsongVengeance, 13 avril 2013 - 02:38 .

[ejoslin]

Yeh, that's the problem with Zevran though. If he's in DA2, he is in the process of destroying the Crows -- going by DAO, we know that Zevran eventually wins and takes them over. It's hard to believe that that wouldn't have an impact on Thedas. When they get around to dealing with Antiva, wouldn't the de facto leader make a difference? Or perhaps it would be like with Alistair, if king making a cameo, and if not, not making it? Or perhaps by the time Antiva is dealt with, it will be so long in the future all the references will just be in the codex?

I just would hate to see that story arc mangled or disregarded.

And yes, Cullen is in there for fan service. And I don't like that Leliana is back -- also complete fan service, and a bit flawed as the data they used to judge her popularity is, at least in part, exceedingly flawed in its collection.

I would love for them to just write new stories. If there's the possibility of them wanting to bring someone back, just don't make it possible for them to die, don't have them go insane, don't have them committing suicide, don't have them getting revenge on former mentors, don't make it possible to cut their throats, etc.

While it's not possible to avoid all continuity issues, they could have avoided a few just by introducing new characters. They could have introduced a strong, sexy templar type (which Cullen was NOT in DAO) without bringing back a re-written, re-personalitied character from DAO. His DAO story was actually pretty sad with a potentially tragic ending, and completely discarded in DA2 for no good reason.

Leliana I've ranted on at length in other threads. Her fans are happy she's back, just as Cullen's fans are. And honestly, DAO is the only game I've cared enough about that these issues are bothersome to me. I honestly don't care if they crap all over the DA2 stories they created, but that's probably in part due to the way they handled the DAO ones.

[Klidi]

I agree with ejoslin. Sure, they haven't created da2 yet when they made epilogue slides... because, you know, da2 was supposed to be a sequel. But, with forced changes to unnecessary things (like Cullen), it felt more like AU than sequel. I guess if I summed up all reasons why I didn't like the game, it would in fact all come to this: da2 was AU fanservice, not a sequel.

Edit because there are too many serious posts without Zev.

Modifié par Klidi, 11 avril 2013 - 11:29 .

[ejoslin]

Nothing like a Zev pic to sexy up a conversation That one is nice!

[BloodsongVengeance]

hmm...

okay, i didn't know that's what zevran was doing in da2. nor about all that he was supposedly going to try to do at the end of dao. all i remember from the slide at the end of dao was, zevran stayed with the warden 'for a time.' and then after that, it was completely vague. (or perhaps just my memory is.)
if there was that much after-plot on some of his slides, and that much plot to his cameo in da2.... okay, now i see where you're coming from!


hahaha, i thought everybody wanted all their old, favorite characters back. omg, i was SO mad when alistair wasn't even in awakenings! not to mention zevran! i mean, that was kinda dumb, since you had the same character supposedly continuing from origins to awakenings. then they throw all these new people in? i didn't take to that.

now, da2... that's a whole new character. okay, why WOULD they want/need to see the old buddies of this other character? you're right, they wouldn't. except for the 'oh cool, there's (insert char name here) from dao!'
i suppose that lends a sort of continuity and world-binding to the franchise? look, the characters have lives beyond the first game. they don't just vanish and become forgotten.
sorta?

you guys are right, though. once a character lives in your head, and you develop their lives beyond the game life... then bringing them back into another game would just mess that all up. like after i finished dao with bannon, awakenings wasn't even out. so bannon and zevran do all kinds of stuff all over the place before this amaranthine business. and then, of course, zevran totally isn't even THERE in the game.
so... yeah, you have to take sequels with a grain of salt. um, or a pile of salt. or as au to you. i dunno.

[ejoslin]

DeadlyHaven wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Alistair not realizing he's not king -- not exactly a bug if you're talking about the Redcliff castle night scene. In order for it to be a bug, there actually has to be a programming error, which there is not. There just isn't alternative dialog -- if you talk to Alistair that night, all the flags are set properly, and the game should behave in all the later scenes as if Anora is queen, but in that discussion, he will refer to himself as king as there is no other dialog there.  How the bug testers missed that one is beyond me.

No, I mean the dialogue you get before killing the archdemon if Alistair is in your party.

Oh, that IS bugged there.  I fixed that one, though (I also did a cludg-y fix of the Redcliff castle one).  It's been awhile since I've worked on it -- I think it was only that way if he was romanced or still in love; I think it worked correctly if he wasn't (I may be misremembering though).  

Yeh, there are a lot of bugs like that.  Small ones that ruined may people's games -- like male wardens being referred to as a woman in the epilogue slides for Zevran romancers under a certain circumstance.

[Kristal9]

I used this head morph for him, but because of another chargen mod I added, his eyes were dark brown instead of luminescent blue. I think it suited him much better. The vanilla face for him just seemed so off to me. This guy should be dark and handsome... not look like an aging surfer bum.

Modifié par Kristal9, 18 avril 2013 - 07:46 .

[Klidi]

I agree Zev's vanilla look is bit off - he looks too old for a guy that's supposed to be in his mid-twenties, and has a sad, tired look about him. On the other hand, I like that it's different than other elves. Zev is unique - at least for me and my Wardens. But without his pouty lips, heavy eyelids, strong jawline and special tattoo, he doesn't look unique any more, he looks like an ordinary elven rogue.
So when I mod him, I only try to make him younger and more matching to his personality of sly and always flirting assassin. (Even if it's just on the surface.)

[Bhryaen]

Zev already looks pretty young, no? Plus the whole "hard life" thingy. But I can't seem to try venturing away from the canon look of the main companion NPCs regardless. It makes their appearance too arbitrary to have it change, particularly so drastically. Their attributes and talents I skew all the time with mods, but not their faces. Small changes that just accentuate what's already there... maybe, but most virtual cosmetic surgeries I see create a totally different organism with the same voice. Ah, well, another few playthroughs and I'll probably want to do the same just for kicks...

For now I'll add a nice shot of the canon Zev that I got due to Sywynlae casting Inferno in the camp during the shriek tax collection. When Alistair came to give his "They can sense us too (though we only seem to know they're coming when we see them)" spiel, Zev happened to be in the background at that angle.



This is just one from the Elven Ruins when Zev was scouting. I liked the open break in the ruins walls through that opening that, of course, no one can traverse. Would've been a nice bypass entry. Zev was using his little known power to levitate...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 19 avril 2013 - 03:01 .

[Kristal9]

Yea, for me I played part way through and then started again because I decided I did not like my warden character. Zev was not around long enough for me to get used to his face, just long enough for my saying "wrong, wrong wrong" to make me do something about it the next time through. Idk, he should just have been dark and sexy and kind of dangerous looking. If he is going to pull lines like that without making me laugh, then he had better be hot . I adore the character, but not the face they chose for him.

Modifié par Kristal9, 19 avril 2013 - 09:11 .

[Klidi]

I changed all companions - in some cases it was just a little tweak - e.g. Morrigan got smaller lips, Zevran and Alistair younger look, in some cases it was rather radical, like Sten or Leliana, who were, imho, real fugly.

@ Bhryaen - that is a beautiful shot! But see, that's exactly the sad, tired look I was talking about. It looks good, it just doesn't match my understanding of Zev. He had a hard life, yes, but he always talks as if it was nothing; it wouldn't be much convicing with that troubled look on his face. So the first change I always do in toolset when I'm modding him (I currently have seven different versions ) is to make him smile.

[ejoslin]

I actually did one morph of him where I changed nothing but his hair. His face is fine, actually, it's just that the blond hair for some reason unbalances his face. I did a few other morphs where I made the lower face less prominent. The skin being weathered and scarred I have no problems with -- it's not like they had sunscreen back then, and Antiva is sunny and hot I think, plus he's had a very hard life.

[Corker]

"*sigh* And now my beautiful hair is spoiled, again.  My Warden, I must insist that 'singed' is not a good look on me." 

[Kristal9]

Yea, the included portrait for that morph has a naughty smile, which is, indeed, fitting. It looks better in action than it does in that screengrab, btw... quite seckseh Between that and the foxes chain, he was lovely. This boy really needs a sexy, black catsuit to go with a handsome, dark face... I hated the look of the vanilla armour they gave him, too ;p

Dolled up like that I loved watching him do the messy kill animations and the dual weapon special attack animations... *sigh* Fine, fine, fine

Modifié par Kristal9, 19 avril 2013 - 07:02 .

[Kristal9]

Oh, I meant this one, UDK-dyed black. Looks nice. http://dragonage.nexusmods.com/mods/793

Modifié par Kristal9, 19 avril 2013 - 09:32 .

[coldwetn0se]

I actually love the way vanilla Zev looks. I started playing DAO on the xbox, so I got used to that face, with that voice. When I finally got an upgraded desktop, and got the game for the PC, for fun I did look around at some of the morphs. Also looked at a few YT vids with some non-vanilla Zevs; they didn't look bad, mind you. But they didn't match what I see in my head. So, I stick with wrinkly ole Zev. LOL Meh, I'm wrinkly too, so no need to pretty him up any more than he already is....for me, at least.

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 19 avril 2013 - 10:18 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Wouldn't change Zev's looks for the world. He is what he is.

Edit:

@Bhryaen - That's a fantastic screenshot

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 20 avril 2013 - 09:44 .

[Bhryaen]

Oh, good! I liked the Inferno look, but I wasn't sure if it was just me. Perhaps Zev might've balked at the Saucy Summer Singed Style of Antivan haircare, but Alistair in the same screenshot, well... didn't weather it as well as Zev...



Probably not a good submission for the Alistair Squee thread... If it's any consolation, they're both wearing Wade's Superiors...

I certainly don't find it offensive that others want to change the looks of the NPCs- even Zev- and if they were all so poorly done in vanilla that they were indistinguishable from other NPCs in the game, I admit I'd probably leap to change them myself just to give them more character and stand out more. But they have such recognizable faces as they are. When another NPC resembles Leliana or Alistair from a distance (those two in particular happen more often) it's not so common, and one can mistake one's own spouse in a crowd as well, so it's kinda natural. I suppose I just feel like coldwetn0se and SoLD: I'm just used to them already and associate the voice with the face. Having a new face is almost like having new actor playing Jason Bourne or something. I just don't want to see a stand-in, even if they're sexier or suaver or even look more the part. Must be how my brain works...

I might use the qunari mod though which would change Sten (but only one playthrough) just because the look is so freakishly monstrous-looking. But I like the beardless Sten the way he is too.

My first impressions of Zev did make me wonder why he was made to look so... Californian. But, oh, well... Get out of the way, Cali Zev! The Inferno is about to...! Ah, well, no one dies during this battle anyway. Wynne just got shriek-felled thrice, no worse for the wear.

The outfits are truly the most homogenizing thing due to every race/ sex having the same body, but I've got that covered with the modded dye kit. I just wish that kit had another 10 or so color combinations...

@Klidi
I sort of like the sad, tired look you can catch Zevran in. It shows his multi-dimensionality. He's able to maintain a healthy degree of humorous banter on a regular basis, but that's just banter and interaction- how he fields social discourse with his fellow elvenoids (snubbing humans for the hell of it). The Zev we know from his history and tales isn't exactly a comedian's profile, and even comedians may have grave matters in their lives or pasts that don't appear in their routines. It's not as if he has no heavy feelings at all. His final "disclosure" story does weigh on him as well, being hard to prise it from him, particularly if you don't take it seriously. He's very touchy about it with the Guardian after all. Even his absurdly dispassionate assassination tales include moments of appreciation of those he's killing. For me it makes him less of a simple, gleeful killing machine and more of a, well, interestingly complex, calculating killing machine.

Modifié par Bhryaen, 20 avril 2013 - 01:01 .

[Klidi]

Bhryaen - of course Zev is not comedian. But, he pretends to be. His jokes, his flirting, his silly tales are a mask he wears in front of others. At least that's how I understand him. And that's why his vanilla look doesn't fit form me - he has heavy feelings, and he's touchy about his past, but he wouldn't let others see it. I can't imagine him looking like a sad, kicked puppy in front of Alistair or Wynne, for example. That's why I morph Zev as young, dangerous assassin that's smiling at everything and everyone - and write a fanfiction where I try to explore the truth he hides behind that mask.

As for his hard life - yes. I'm the last one to deny that he had had a hard life. But I don't think it was the type of hard life that would make you prematurely wrinkled. It's not like he worked as a peasant or in docks. In the game, he says the Crows used to buy elves because they were pretty; and Morrigan comments that he spends ridiculous time on hair. So I assumed that he would take just as much care for his face.

But those are just my personal opinions, of course. The reason why I love Zevran and Dragon Age so much is that there can be so many different interpretations of it. That;s why the fanart and fanfiction are so much fun.

Here's my last version of Zev in action

Modifié par Klidi, 20 avril 2013 - 10:30 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Bhryaen wrote...

Probably not a good submission for the Alistair Squee thread... 

I dunno...the way Zevran's looking at Alistair, he might be jealous the human's actually on fire.

[BloodsongVengeance]

Bhryaen wrote...

dear zevran;
   your butt is on fire.

...again!


   i think zevran's kinda ugly-looking, personally.  and blond; blond does not do a thing for me.  but i think he looks... how he should look.  he has that heavy-lidded eye thing that looks both wary and sexy.  and a sort of jutting chin that looks quite beligerant and stubborn.  i dunno about wrinkles and all, i think maybe you guys are zooming the camera in too far....? 
   i did try re-creating bannon and zevran in the toolset without the wrinkle overlay slider blender thing.  they looked horrible, like they were 14 years old or something.
http://social.biowar...ms/939668/70575

Modifié par BloodsongVengeance, 21 avril 2013 - 12:49 .

[Bhryaen]

@Klidi
Wow, I like that shot of him! His eyes glow in the dark blue. I was trying to make Aedlyn like that but I never got a shot like that of her.

The grin he's got though- a bit unnerving. It's true as someone said above that Zev's portrait sports a wily grin, and in that way he always stays smiling, but that's because it's a snapshot of perhaps a quintessential Zevran moment. Having him always stay smiling in-game though sounds like painting a Joker face on him. Kinda creepy. ("Why so serious??!!??") I made a character with the toolset like that- had to scrap it for that reason. Mind you, the only permanently smiling NPC in DAO is... ENCHANTMENT! 8-) No, I like that Zevran has his mature and serious side, that he's truly pissed off (disappointed, disheartened, etc.) if you're cruel to Athras or the Dalish generally or the Alienage elves. (Doesn't care so much regarding Ruck though- heh.) It's his ability to bounce between serious and (quite funny) comic without any psychological hangups or social conventions to hold him back that's most fun to experience.

Modifié par Bhryaen, 21 avril 2013 - 12:54 .

[ejoslin]

The dialog regarding Ruck is interesting. It's a bit weird there due to a few bugs, but once sorted, I think shows an interesting side to Zevran. He's supposed to sound completely disinterested, but the facial expressions and words themselves belie that (I find that a lot in his dialogs -- where the voice is supposed to sound one way and the facial expressions show another -- I think it's to keep him from sounding overly dramatic). Anyway, I understand why he feels a quick death is better than the way Ruck is existing, but it's a touchy issue so I won't get into it here.