8061 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

@ejoslin
lol Another DAO controversy? Poor Ruck. Ruck not want trouble pretty lady with more controversy... I literally just got to Ruck a few minutes ago, went through all the dialog... and Zevran had nothing to say. I've seen him react before- not sure if in my last playthrough or on a YouTube vid. I've got Zev, Morrigan, and Alistair- maybe the wrong companion combination?

[ejoslin]

No, you must not have made the dialog choice that makes Zevran speak up. If you're not using ZDF, if you are forced to do something you may not like (in ZDF, I open up a couple of other dialog choices that are kept out because the flag that has them show is never actually set anywhere). I don't remember exactly what it is.  Either Zevran or Oghren or both in the party can trigger the event, though; both Zevran and Oghren view death as the better alternative than what Ruck was going through.  With ZDF, you can change their minds; in the vanilla game you cannot.

Keep in mind that Ruck was slowly and painfully turning into a ghoul and going insane.  

(yes, I edited this post)

Another edit:

Okay, I looked it up.  The dialog choice is the warden saying to Ruck "I should go."  Zevran and Oghren seem to have different reasons -- Oghren is disgusted by him; Zevran pities him.  However, if Zevran isn't in the party, you don't have to go along with it.

Bah, I remember how annoying sorting all of this stuff out was.

Last edit: The DAO toolset runs far better with an SSD drive.  I never realized that it was the HD which caused it to run so poorly.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 avril 2013 - 07:49 .

[mk123]

Hi! I'm just sneaking in to pick your Zev-loving brains.... what do you think Zevran's attitude to blood magic is? I have a mage character who is a blood mage and trying to keep it secret, but finding it more difficult as time goes on. For some of the characters it's easy to say how they would react if they found out - Wynne and Alistair, for example - but Zevran is more difficult. Anyone care to help me out?

[mk123]

Bhryaen wrote...

And I love this picture. He just looks so resigned. 'On fire again? Must be Tuesday...'

[ejoslin]

mk123 wrote...

Hi! I'm just sneaking in to pick your Zev-loving brains.... what do you think Zevran's attitude to blood magic is? I have a mage character who is a blood mage and trying to keep it secret, but finding it more difficult as time goes on. For some of the characters it's easy to say how they would react if they found out - Wynne and Alistair, for example - but Zevran is more difficult. Anyone care to help me out?

I don't think he would care -- above all he's pragmatic.  He does mention the Crows using blood rituals as well to gain power, and doesn't seem against it.

[Bhryaen]

@mk123
lol... Can't help on the blood magic thingy though- not much experience with it. But Zevran does seem to be more intrigued by Morrigan the more dangerous she presents herself, if you can believe his banter. Also he gets ecstatic over your choice to do a bargain with the demon in Sophia's body, complimenting you on your surprisingly adept ethics. I'd say he'd certainly not be put off by learning the Warden is a blood mage, probably to the contrary.

@ejoslin
That was it... Well, that was abrupt. I thought I had your mod going. Maybe there's a conflict. Anyway, I hadn't selected that option you mentioned- always exiting the dialog via trade. As soon as I did it gave only one dialog option for the player that was in agreement with Zev. Ruck immediately went hostile. I tried a quick death for the poor fellow, but it took Glyphs of Repulsion and Paralysis, Inferno, Fireball, Grease, and Imprisonment. *sigh*

And after all that nice "put him out of his misery" and "I've seen poison victims in better shape" from Zevran (despite Ruck being fully functional, able to converse, maintaining a store, saying he's doing ok by keeping warm), Zev had the nerve to exclaim after the "battle": "That was invigorating!" No... no, Zev. You can't say that this time...

EDIT (after some diversion):
It seems the ZDF mod has indeed been in effect in my game for some time (though I just updated it to the most recent Dialog_Tweaks-Compatible version), but I'm still getting only one dialog option at that point. I'd installed Dialog Tweaks through the dazip, so maybe that did something to disrupt the fix? Anyway, thanks for looking it up- yet another bit of Zev commentary I would've missed despite him being in the party.

EDIT 2:
Heh... Uh, no, it's working now. Looks like the updated version did it! I was able to persuade Zev that "leaving him to his fate" would be ok. Actually Zev isn't exactly heartless and sounds genuinely concerned about Ruck's fate. I'll have to change my vote in the Great Ruck Controversy.

Modifié par Bhryaen, 21 avril 2013 - 11:58 .

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, I wonder if you have a version that doesn't have the Ruck fix included -- I put it into the final version, but before that, I had it as a standalone since I switched some dialog as well (just to make the Zevran/Oghren comments flow better). I'll check to make sure both current versions got updated.


Hahahaha, we must have posted at the same time!

And yeh, I get the feeling that Ruck is not coming across as messed up as the dialog with Zevran and Oghren suggest.  If you fail the persuade check, Zevran will point out that if Ruck were sane, he would not want this life.

But yes, Ruck does not want to die.  However, he's going to be a darkspawn soon as well.  It's not an easy choice.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 avril 2013 - 12:04 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

On top of the whole 'ok with blood magic' thing, In the Soldier's Peak DLC, Zevran even comes across as impressed if you strike a bargain with a demon.

So I don't think he cares about using dangerous or morally dubious weapons. He's pragmatic, and not squeamish about it.

It might depend on your blood magic, though. New lore has confirmed that blood magic increases in power if violence and death are involved, and while Zevran has no issues with either of these it's not to the point of sadism. He'll probably have less of a problem with a responsible blood mage than one who takes pleasure in sucking the life out of bystanders every battle.

[Bhryaen]

A scouting moment with Zev that just begged for a comic line...


"I shall remain motionless so as not to alert the guard that anything is amiss..."

[Ewlar]

I do not like Zevran-black hair. He does not fit.

Bhryaen wrote...

Zev already looks pretty young, no? ...


...

I love it.

ejoslin
wrote...

...Anyway,
I understand why he feels a quick death is better than the way Ruck is
existing, but it's a touchy issue so I won't get into it here.

It was a pity. I understand why Zevran killed him.

Modifié par Ewlar, 27 avril 2013 - 09:07 .

[Ewlar]

Opinion players.



Screensaver game «Dragon Age "
is a composition of a series of portraits and drawings. Clearly dominates in this group Morrigan. It is also recognized Duncan and Loghain -
key players in the story. All of them appear in the background mass of enemies, the enemies fighting elf. Like it
or not, this is Zevran. He is pictured here in
its early conception.

The decision to locate potential party members on the cover of the game speaks of the fundamental importance
of character. Perhaps its special importance for the future of Thedas.

In the game, we saw a great fighter and
a valuable ally. But it is not clear that this is allocated Zevran, which
can be done in the first scene with
the main characters. And here's
my question:

This unrealized project
or creators want then go back to the idea? (Or
just elf looks good on the cover?).

Modifié par Ewlar, 27 avril 2013 - 09:16 .

[ejoslin]

I think David Gaider loved Zevran and had hoped he would be better received. While if you get to know Zevran, you find out what an deep, multi-faceted character he is, many just didn't bother, whether they killed him, left him in camp, or got furious over him hitting on Leliana and picked fights with him. Others felt he was a stereotype and/or caracture and were offended.

Whatever, Zevran is not a popular DAO character in general -- and worse, the ones who don't like him really don't like him -- so I don't think much will be added to him in the future, even if initially they had further plans for him (which wouldn't surprise me given his DAO epilogue).

[luna1124]

ejoslin wrote...

I think David Gaider loved Zevran and had hoped he would be better received. While if you get to know Zevran, you find out what an deep, multi-faceted character he is, many just didn't bother, whether they killed him, left him in camp, or got furious over him hitting on Leliana and picked fights with him. Others felt he was a stereotype and/or caracture and were offended.

Whatever, Zevran is not a popular DAO character in general -- and worse, the ones who don't like him really don't like him -- so I don't think much will be added to him in the future, even if initially they had further plans for him (which wouldn't surprise me given his DAO epilogue).

Exactly! Zevran is the most loyal, sweet LI in the game! And sensitive....

[Bhryaen]

I wouldn't call Zevran the most loyal. (Sweet and sensitive is just funny... "It was inevitable we would make love at some point. It always happens.") After Talisen is killed, if you're not in a romance with him you have to persuade him with the lure of treasure to keep him in the party or off he goes. But he's still a great character, the most fun to have along, the most witty, etc. If he's Gaider's favorite there's good reason, but I see no reason to adjust my experience with Zevran to that small, stylized cover image.

That dark-clad elf featured in the composite is oh-so-coincidentally a lot less like Zevran and a lot more like a Drizzt Do'Urden Wannabe, what with the long weapon (rather than daggers), black drow skin rather than California bronze, and drow white hair (rather than sandy blondish). So I wanna know where I can find Drizzt in DAO. He's got a couple scimitars I wanna steal plus a nice set of chain I might help him part with...

[Klidi]

When they asked Gaider who are his favourite DAO characters he said Alistair and Morrigan, and they both got continuation to their stories. I don't think Morrigan has more fans than Zev, and those who don't like her, really don't like her - and same is true for Leliana.

@ Bhryaen - I don't remember all dialogue choices now, but I have several playtroughs where I started the romance only AFTER meeting with Taliesen and I didn't mention the treasure at all.
The Zevran's concept looks cool but I can understand why they changed him - he looked more like a crossover of a Dalish and a pirate than an assassin. Yes, he looks dangerous and sexy, but I think for his profession a refined, more conservative appearance would be better. I can't imagine the game Zev charming a noble or a merchant prince, but not the concept Zev. This is after all a middle age, people were more conservative and formal.

[ejoslin]

Actually, no, you don't have to persuade him to stay -- you get an approval loss when you choose the treasure option, and in fact, you may fail that if your coercion isn't high enough. Ask him to stay as a friend -- he stays no matter what, and you get an approval gain.  

Treat Zevran as a valued person, and you get that back in spades.  Treat him as a commodity, he understands that and accepts it, but don't expect the same response as if you treat him as if he's valued highly, either as lover or friend.

While it's true that as a lover he asks to stay and as a friend he asks, initially, to leave -- given that he's being hunted by the crows, this is understandable.  In fact, his staying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that at that moment, he can get a clean break and get away and rebuild a new life, whereas if he sticks with the warden, he will always be hunted.  He is giving up all chance of complete freedom from the crows, just at the warden's request.  If you make it about money, he's not as enthusiastic than if it's about friendship.

And he is exceedingly loyal. After Taliesen, talk to him at camp. Make sure you mention he's a friend (even if in a romance). He offers to die for the warden -- he's the very first one to tell the warden that the gray warden ALWAYS dies.  He ends up making a joke about rethinking the friendship, but you can't get past that his initial reaction is to die in the warden's place.

Edit: Morrigan is very popular -- she may be the most popular of the romances (Leliana bug aside).  Given how anticipated Witch Hunt was, and how much of an uproar there was when she was bugged (and how much effort they put into fixing the WH bugs regarding her), is a good indication about how popular she really is. But more than that, she was written to have a very large role in the franchise.  And seriously, DG really loved Zevran, and used to spend some time defending him to his detracters.  It's possible he liked Morrigan and Alistair more -- but that doesn't mean he didn't love Zevran as well.

Second edit: What kills Morrigan for many is that the only DR dialog is the neutral dialog -- not the lover dialog.  And that is a shame, because that would be very, very painful for someone who romanced her.  Plus, her very sweet, "My love" at the gates is bugged out since the kiss flag is there, but as everyone knows, the kisses themselves were never put in.  Yes, there really are supposed to be kisses there (for everyone but Leliana if you believe the notes, but kisses were probably supposed to be there for her as well).

*sigh*  I'm about to go into squee mode

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2013 - 03:34 .

[Bhryaen]

@ejoslin & Klidi
lol... figures... Well, I'll chalk it up to more DAO surprises I get to discover traveling with him... :-)

Yeah, I haven't actually seen any anti-Zev hate on the forums. Not sure what that's about. Plenty of anti-Alistair/Morrigan/Leliana/Wynne/Oghren/etc. hate. Not sure where it would show up. More I'd expect he'd get a lot less interest because he (unmodded) only shows up later once you've finished a Treaty obligation thingy- i.e., after you've already warmed to Leliana who (unmodded) also tends to be more effective as an archer than he is as a dualist. My first games I hardly knew him at all, just an extra shriek-fighter back at camp along for the ride. Plus Zev is also gay which tends to irk the squeamish. Otherwise you'd have to have a terrible sense of humor to not enjoy his company...

"Ooh, I hate him. He's just so... so... bad!"
"Why, of course I am, my dear. That adds to my charm, no?"

[ejoslin]

Slight nitpick -- Zevran isn't gay. He's bisexual, and is more attracted to women than men, but is attracted to men as well. (anyone who that offends, don't shoot the messenger -- he's the one who says he prefers the curves of a woman but won't reject someone based on society's norms)

I do see a lot of Zev-hate, but it's not a big deal.  It's mainly in the form of, "I slit his throat, I enjoyed slitting his throat, the **** betrayed me, he better stay dead, he tricked me into the tent, blah blah blah blah blah."  It's easy to ignore because Zev fans normally don't get too worked up over it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2013 - 04:38 .

[Bhryaen]

@ejoslin
Ah, right- good call- bi then. I only mentioned it because during the BGEE early dev stages there was an eruption on the fan forum (not here on Bioware) of "Don't make the new NPCs gay! There's already Zevran in DAO who just comes up and says, 'Hi! I'm gay! Let's do it!'" Which is stupid and untrue, but about the only ire I've ever heard against Zev anywhere.

Where does he betray you or trick you into the tent? The initial assassination thingy? Or later when he sides with Talisen if you're not on good terms with him? Worse is Wynne who will attack you in three different scenarios- understandably or no. And he flirts right away, but you have to go through a bit of clarification before he does the sex scene. This was unlike my experience with Alistair who immediately forced a smothering grapple-kiss on my character because she'd said one too many flirt lines at him (I assume)- and only afterward did he then ask if it's OK... and drops heavy approval points if you say no. Nothing like that with Zev.

[ejoslin]

He doesn't Not really, and the betrayal is understandable, though people get angry about it.

I had a character once who had Leliana at 100 love and Wynne at 100 friendship... and my character defiled the ashes. That one was the biggest, least understandable betrayal in the game. They know you said you were intending to defile the ashes. They do nothing to try to talk you out of it -- they remain mum until it's done.  They also know that you and Alistair are the only remaining gray wardens in Ferelden and are working against insurmountable odds.  I could understand them leaving if they found you that repugnant after that and helping fight the blight in other ways, but not the attempted killing.  Killing the warden would do no good at that point -- it was done.

It was actually a sad playthrough, and for my city elf, it confirmed everything she believed about shems.

Bah, it's a good game

Modifié par ejoslin, 27 avril 2013 - 08:40 .

[Bhryaen]

@ejoslin
So true- but Wynne is also the one who knows all about being a Warden, so you know she struggled deeply at that moment with the decision to kill one of the last Ferelden Wardens over what Zev poignantly calls a "nice vase." (lol) I have yet to find any of my characters defiling the ashes though (except to see it happen, then reload), so I'll have to try that eventually. Very curious to find out what the Cult of the Pet Dragon does for you if you ruin the lyrium-drenched "ashes" for them. Should be tired of it by now, but I love this game...

On another note- apologies in advance for the photo bombardment, but I just went through my screenshots of my last playthrough with Sywynlae, found a couple more nice Zevran-related moments worth sharing...

This was after modding in a change for stealth in which you're no longer a gray ghost but instead a transparent ghost (except that your weapons are still gray ghostly)... Zev seems much more distinguished and contemplative than usual...



EDIT: A close-up might be better...



And here's one of Sywynlae and Zevran- I believe having just watched Archy the Demon fly up past them without noticing them... because why would it sense Gray Wardens when they're that close? It has better things to do than go wipe out its deadly foe Gray Wardens that are at its mercy... fortunately for Zevran...



I have a number more of her and Zev, but she'd found- and donned- the Succubus Bedlam outfit early on, so most of them are not quite... showable... This one is only just passable...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 27 avril 2013 - 10:25 .

[Corker]

Bhryaen wrote...

Where does he betray you or trick you into the tent? .

People with very bad listening skills somehow manage to miss the bit about "more than a massage," and are then shocked, SHOCKED to realize that their PC consented to bang.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

It's not only that, though, Corker. According to maradeux, the dialogue lines there were not clear in other languages (or at least they weren't clear in German). So it was sometimes lost in translation, or I suppose some people to whom English wasn't their native language could have been confused too.

Judging from the amount of uproar, however, I like to think the majority were English-speakers who simply weren't paying attention and would have benefited from a DA2-style icon with an appropriate image displayed.

Or inappropriate, rather. >.>

[Ewlar]

Thanks to everyone who responded to me.
ejoslin, You always explain clearly.

Corker +
In Russian it was all clear. As for the massage. But even if you do not know the language, it is clear what wants Zevran. There are written, that the game is for adults!