8061 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

But does his massage offer really seem like "consenting to bang"? That makes it sound one-sided, like "OK, I'll let you bang me... if you must." Instead it comes across to me like you can't get there without acknowledging mutual interest, that that invariably precedes the banging part. To despise him for it is to declare one's disinterest in mature sexual relationships. There! Take that, non-present Zevran-detractor!

Just verifying to make sure I wasn't just imagining it...

He does suggest a special massage (which he learned in an Antivan ****house *hint hint*) without explicitly saying sex, but after your character agrees he adds outright, "And if the massage were to lead to more...?" And there are numerous options, among which are:

2. It won't. Ever. Trust me.
3. Let's not go there, shall we?

So unless those two options (half the available) lead to banging anyway, I don't see where the deception is. The translators would have to be pretty lame to not convey properly either one of those options. And the other two lines aren't so ambiguous either...

1. I'll leave that to you.
4. I'm sure I'll think of something.

I mean, can you mistranslate either one as "You better not" or something in such a way as to make the player think they option means the opposite? Hard to see where the oops could've happened. And, no, neither say, "You mean SEX!? Then, yes, I consent to bang!" to clunk the player over the skull with a warhammer of clarity before a hair drag into the tent, but it seems fairly straightforward regardless.

So you can even get a fantastic massage without him even banging you- quite a deal. I could use one myself. Right. The charges are dropped. Uncuff the prisoner. Zevran, you're free to go.
"But what if I like the handcuffs? We could always..."
"Let's not go there, shall we?"
"Ahh... well. But you do not know what you are missing, let me assure you..."

[Corker]

Right. In the native English version (didn't know that about the translations!), it is clear... no, wait. It *should be clear* to anyone with reading comprehension skills commensurate with the game's M rating what's being proposed.

This being the Internet... well. That smooth-tongued rogue apparently managed to deftly corrupt the code of many games so that the "leads to something more" line disappeared, hornswaggling legions of confused players into bedding him.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Reading skills aside, it's possible a lot of people were just overly surprised when the dialogue cut straight into a sex scene. I know when I first played the game I did a double-take, for a few reasons:

1) Because I hadn't even known DA:O had sex scenes until that moment (I knew nothing about the game except the Sacred Ashes trailer),

2) Because the scene was more explicit than I'd seen in a game to that point,

3) Because the transition from talking to naked time felt so abrupt.

4) Zevran had his shirt off. <.<

So while the dialogue definitely felt like it was leading to hawt sex, I could understand at least a little shock. Vitriolic anger is another kettle of fish. That's what the ESC key and Quickloads are there for, people.

[Ewlar]

Bhryaen +, Corker +

Shadow of Light Dragon, shock is not necessary. Zevran long does hints. You can guess what he wants to seduce.

You surprised sexy video? Surprise! )))

[Corker]

@SoLD, I'm sorry. I'm definitely considering "omg there's a cutscene?!" separately from "I never said that was okay!" Surprise that 'something more' is going to be graphically illustrated now makes sense to me. Surprise that narratively speaking, an adult situation is going to happen in that tent - I don't know how one can miss it.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Corker wrote...

@SoLD, I'm sorry. I'm definitely considering "omg there's a cutscene?!" separately from "I never said that was okay!" Surprise that 'something more' is going to be graphically illustrated now makes sense to me. Surprise that narratively speaking, an adult situation is going to happen in that tent - I don't know how one can miss it.

It does get me wondering, actually, if there'd have been the same level of complaining if the cutscene hadn't happened but players had still gotten the 'You Banged Zevran' achievement.

[ejoslin]

Zevran's sex scenes obviously had the most effort put into them -- male and female. Leliana's and Morrigan's were essentially the same, with some slightly different camera angles, no matter what the race and gender. Alistair, same scene no matter what race as well. Zevran's, the only cross over scene was the elf one (male and female were almost identical) -- the rest were completely different, down to different facial expressions even when the same animations were used.

Actually, I wonder who's idea that was -- giving Zevran's sex scenes such variety. I can see why the human male scene would make a heterosexual guy uncomfortable -- it's seriously hot, despite the underwear (and if you use a mod removing the underwear, it's even hotter).

Actually, I may be odd in that I did like the sex scenes in DAO. They didn't turn me on or anything, but actually seeing people behave in yet another very human way in a video game was refreshing. Those scenes, if nothing else, showed a lot of tenderness that you don't really get to see in the way sex is normally portrayed in the media.

I've probably outed myself as a bit of a freak here

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 avril 2013 - 01:56 .

[BloodsongVengeance]

ejoslin wrote...

Actually, no, you don't have to persuade him to stay -- you get an approval loss when you choose the treasure option, and in fact, you may fail that if your coercion isn't high enough. Ask him to stay as a friend -- he stays no matter what, and you get an approval gain.  

Treat Zevran as a valued person, and you get that back in spades.  Treat him as a commodity, he understands that and accepts it, but don't expect the same response as if you treat him as if he's valued highly, either as lover or friend.

While it's true that as a lover he asks to stay and as a friend he asks, initially, to leave -- given that he's being hunted by the crows, this is understandable.  In fact, his staying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that at that moment, he can get a clean break and get away and rebuild a new life, whereas if he sticks with the warden, he will always be hunted.  He is giving up all chance of complete freedom from the crows, just at the warden's request.  If you make it about money, he's not as enthusiastic than if it's about friendship.

And he is exceedingly loyal. After Taliesen, talk to him at camp. Make sure you mention he's a friend (even if in a romance). He offers to die for the warden -- he's the very first one to tell the warden that the gray warden ALWAYS dies.  He ends up making a joke about rethinking the friendship, but you can't get past that his initial reaction is to die in the warden's place.

::gets all misty-eyed::

::sniff::

AHEM.


   i have a question about the 'abrupt zevran sexytime tent scene cutscene.'  um...  in my game, the dialogue ends (with the warden saying a definite yes-maybe).  then it pauses a minute and zevran makes some kind of vague facial expression something, and closes his eyes?  and THEN fades to black and goes to the cutscene.  i always found that pause in between to be weird. and wondering if it is some kind of bug?  does nobody else get that, there?

[ejoslin]

It's a bug. If you use ZDF, you get the proper lead-in, which is a kiss with the dialog line.

You may notice that a few of the responses go to a kiss (though the line may be different depending on your choices). ALL of them are supposed to, but someone got very lazy on the cut-and-paste and instead of having the dialogs go to the kisses, they instead had every cut-and-paste go to the dialog line.

Modifié par ejoslin, 29 avril 2013 - 04:56 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Hah, having a kiss scene beforehand might have helped, yes. I didn't know it was supposed to be in there.

And I rather liked the sex scenes in DA:O too, after the initial shock value.

[BloodsongVengeance]

ejoslin wrote...

It's a bug. If you use ZDF, you get the proper lead-in, which is a kiss with the dialog line.

You may notice that a few of the responses go to a kiss (though the line may be different depending on your choices). ALL of them are supposed to, but someone got very lazy on the cut-and-paste and instead of having the dialogs go to the kisses, they instead had every cut-and-paste go to the dialog line.

once again proving how ejoslin is god.

not that it needed proving.

hahah!  i still haven't gotten there after i installed the fixes.  yes, i am horribly slow at replaying the game :/
glacial, even.

[Bhryaen]

I have ZDF in and the cut to sex scene still seems abrupt (isn't a ****** the first thing you see your elf doing?) but then again I'm a hetero guy and I haven't played a guy yet where I'm wanting to bring it on with the NPC (with Morrigan the Mean? Leliana the Loopy? Eesh...), so it's bound to be at least a little jarring for me regardless. I tend to just hit ESC (mostly due to boredom) so the nuances of Zev's scenes would alas be lost on me. It's a bit awkward anyway essentially living vicariously through Zevran to seduce my own character (lol)... But the romance and sex components aren't the biggest draw of DAO for me anyway. The writing is good enough that I just do the sex stuff because it's one of numerous story moments interesting to see play out. Zev just gets to make out well from my curiosity, the scoundrel.

At least Zev doesn't constantly nag your character to tell him he's handsome. "Some things are just understood as given..."

[ejoslin]

Heh, the BJ for the elves and for the dwarf female -- Alistair's scenes start with that as well. Still, there's the kiss leading to the cutscene, which doesn't always happen in the vanilla game, but should. I don't change the actual cutscenes (too much work for me, and there's other mods for that), but yeh, they don't shy away from oral sex, but they also don't have it be this huge wild passion thing either. I think the cutscenes for all the characters show a lot of sweetness rather than hotness, which I also think is a better portrayal of sex.  Ripping off clothing actually is not so great in reality, though it looks fun in the movies.

Ahem, ANYWAY. The sex is a 30 second cutscene out of a 50+ hour game, so not a big part of it.

I don't know. I've done all the romances. I couldn't relate to Morrigan or Leliana at all; they kept me aware of the fact that I was playing a video game and doing a video game romance, but I doubt that's the writers' fault. Alistair's and Zevran's really drew me in, though. My husband, who is amazing at impersonations, had a great Zevran voice that he used to make fun of me for awhile.

And indeed, they are understood

@BloodsongVengeance *blush* and thank you!

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 mai 2013 - 02:06 .

[emeraldtrader]

ejoslin wrote...

....My husband, who is amazing at impersonations, had a great Zevran voice that he used to make fun of me for awhile.

hubba hubba!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Did you ever get him to impersonate Pirate Zevran? :3

[Bhryaen]

@ejoslin
Didn't mean to imply that you'd done anything to the sex scenes themselves, just saying that no matter the lead-up, it still always just sort of flops in front of me like a cafeteria meal. The BJ isn't bad, just sort of...

Zev: "Hey, you could use a massage."
Warden: "Sure could. You offering?"
Zev: "And then some. You up for more than that?"
Warden: "I'm not stoppin' ya."
******.

Plus, wasn't the offer for Zev to be giving the "massage?" I've always actually given the massage. Ah, well. Is what it is. And what's wrong with ripping off clothes? Can be one of the best parts! But, yeah, it's just a fairly straightforward sex scene, people doing people stuff.

Jealous of Mr. Ejoslin though. I do impersonations and accents myself, but probably not nearly as well.

Speaking of which, Zev's voice actor- Jon Curry- apparently doesn't look anything like Zevran. (Nor does Alistair's, of course, for all the gushing that goes on...) It's such a Cyrano De Bergerac situation. hehe I was about to say that he doesn't seem to do anything other than Zev's voice given that he's in another game playing an assassin with the exact same accent, but then he also plays Ser Landry apparently, so...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 02 mai 2013 - 05:14 .

[Bhryaen]

Oh, and just speculating on why Zevran's sex scenes had variety while the others didn't- maybe they just started with Zev and once all the difference sequences were constructed they found that the variety was too time-consuming for the end result, so they just abandoned the variety approach for the rest of the companions. This still begs the question of why they chose Zev first, but still.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I...think the start of the sex scenes for Z and A are vague enough that they're not necessarily starting with blowjobs, although they could if people wanted to believe such. Could just as easily be basic foreplay. I'm sure kissing chests and starting low without oral sex being involved still happens somewhere, right?

[ejoslin]

I don't think the bugs are different (if anything, the xbox has more). For each dialog line leading to the kiss (I think there are three different ones), there is one that works correctly, and a few others that do not. It's the lines that end with a copy/paste to the final line that have the issue.

And yeh, I suppose you can start low and move up without oral happening, but Alistair just looks SO happy when the warden lifts her head

I'm going to sound VERY weird here, but no, I don't think the ripping off of clothing to get to the deed as quickly as possible is great sex -- speaking as a woman who likes things to go a bit slower than that.

ANYWAY, never got my husband to say the "Pirate Zevran" line. He never played DAO, so he just heard the occasional dialog when I'd force him to listen to them. When he does impersonations, he goes slightly over the top and it's so funny.

[dralkjin]

Bhryaen wrote...

Oh, and just speculating on why Zevran's sex scenes had variety while the others didn't- maybe they just started with Zev and once all the difference sequences were constructed they found that the variety was too time-consuming for the end result, so they just abandoned the variety approach for the rest of the companions. This still begs the question of why they chose Zev first, but still.

I always thought the reason Zevran has variety in his sex scenes is because he's supposed to be experienced.


Hello everyone. I haven't been here in a while. I haven't even played DAO in a while. I started a game with a mage a while back, but I haven't finished it yet. My mage is a female elf again. I really should try to play as a human or a dwarf one of these times, but I really love elves. I also can't seem to romance anyone other than Zevran.

[Bhryaen]

Despite Lelly's veneer of Maker-is-my-true-love-chastity, I believe she's supposed to be about as experienced as Zev from her bardly days... or more bardly days. But I was just speculating on the reason for Zev's variety- which does remain remarkable. I tend to lean in the direction of project goof-ups and limitations rather than writer plot-driven cleverness when determining reasons for the otherwise inexplicable, but I don't know either way, so I still reserve judgment...

On Zev's popularity I just found this poll on the DAWiki for how participants consider Zev. It was titled "Do most people hate/dislike Zevran?"- so a weency bit biased against him, but the votes spoke otherwise.

Love 93
Like 64
Neutral 27
Dislike 31
Hate 29

Perhaps not the most representative pool of DA players out there, but still- 157 to 87 in favor- a whopping 64% lead. Heh. But over 3:1 lovers v haters! Probably would've been more damning if those hate and dislike votes had gone to neutral: Zev doesn't tend to evoke indifference...

Modifié par Bhryaen, 04 mai 2013 - 03:33 .

[ejoslin]

Bhryaen wrote...

Despite Lelly's veneer of Maker-is-my-true-love-chastity, I believe she's supposed to be about as experienced as Zev from her bardly days... or more bardly days. But I was just speculating on the reason for Zev's variety- which does remain remarkable. I tend to lean in the direction of project goof-ups and limitations rather than writer plot-driven cleverness when determining reasons for the otherwise inexplicable, but I don't know either way, so I still reserve judgment...

On Zev's popularity I just found this poll on the DAWiki for how participants consider Zev. It was titled "Do most people hate/dislike Zevran?"- so a weency bit biased against him, but the votes spoke otherwise.

Love 93
Like 64
Neutral 27
Dislike 31
Hate 29

Perhaps not the most representative pool of DA players out there, but still- 157 to 87 in favor- a whopping 64% lead. Heh. But over 3:1 lovers v haters! Probably would've been more damning if those hate and dislike votes had gone to neutral: Zev doesn't tend to evoke indifference...

That poll has some interesting comments, though I've only read a few.  And one person hit it on the head when talking about the way people view Leliana and her vast experience (she even brings it up when she propositions the warden) and bisexuality and Zevran's.

I have a lot of youtube videos up, some showing corrected bugs, some showing various parts of Zevran's romance, some highlighting other mod features.  ANYWAY, I have the corrected hardened Leliana dialog up when she propositions my female warden, and people love it.  The comments are all positive.  I have another of Wynne lecturing my female warden about the romance with Zevran, and I have people talking about how horrible Zevran is, how horrible homosexuality is, bla bla blah.  So, I have a pretty female warden about to get it on with another female, and that's cool -- and I have a pretty female warden who's in a relationship with a bisexual male, and that's gross.

Stupid people.

Then there's the other extreme that sends me hate messages for posting a video of the warden choosing the "other" option when Zevran offers the earring for the second time and then tries to keep it casual.  I like that people care that much about him

[dralkjin]

Aww, Bhryaen, why did you have to go and bring your logic into it and ruin my fantasy about Zevran? I was fine thinking that his sex scenes were intentionally made that way. Ha ha! Oh well, in my imagination it’s because he’s experienced and that’s what matters, right? Also, I never got to vote in that poll, so count an extra love point for me. lol

Faerunner, I’m glad you agree that Zevran is experienced. The way you described him is exactly how I see him. I don’t think of Alistair as prudish though. I think he’s just a little shy and nervous, which makes sense for any virgin, really. I honestly wouldn’t even know about any of the sex scenes with Alistair, Morrigan, or Leliana if it wasn’t for youtube though. I have only gone to the tent with Zevran with all of my gray wardens.

Ejoslin, I can’t understand why people would send you hate messages over a video. It's not like the outcome for the other option when Zevran offers the earring for the second time is your fault. You weren't the one who wrote it that way. Some people are silly. I have read some of your other comments here though, so I know you don’t like hurting him. I can imagine how difficult it must have been for you to do it. I can understand what it’s like to get emotionally involved with the characters. I remember the first time I broke Zev’s heart on accident, because I didn’t know any better. I was confused and upset that I hurt him. I had to go back to a previous save and make it all better, because I couldn’t bear to lose him. I also have difficulty breaking up with Alistair, so I try not to start the romance with him at all. It annoys me when I accidentally end up starting it anyway.