It's a tribute to how well he's written and just how good the voice acting is. You can hear his heart break, and that's painful!
Edit: Yay, ToP. So... Serissia's Pirate Zevran (love this)!
Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mai 2013 - 11:05 .
Modifié par ejoslin, 04 mai 2013 - 11:05 .
Guest_Faerunner_*
dralkjin wrote...
Faerunner, I’m glad you agree that Zevran is experienced. The way you described him is exactly how I see him. I don’t think of Alistair as prudish though. I think he’s just a little shy and nervous, which makes sense for any virgin, really. I honestly wouldn’t even know about any of the sex scenes with Alistair, Morrigan, or Leliana if it wasn’t for youtube though. I have only gone to the tent with Zevran with all of my gray wardens.
Yeah Bhryaen, I know what you mean. There were other things in the game besides Zev’s sex scenes that make me believe that he’s experienced though. The lines that Faerunner mentioned were some of them. Also, when you first meet him, if you get into the discussion about the bed warming, he says he can go all night. In his sex scenes it looks like they did go all night. lol Another thing to consider is his background of being raised by ****s and sold to the Crows when he was a youngling. We know he had to do whatever he needed to survive. I don’t like to imagine any of the horrible things that went on during his training with the Crows, because it’s too disturbing. However, since we know that he is skilled in seduction, we can conclude that he probably learned as much as he could about sex. I also believe confidence comes with experience and Zevran definitely has confidence.
Modifié par Faerunner, 05 mai 2013 - 11:06 .
Modifié par ejoslin, 06 mai 2013 - 10:51 .
Faerunner wrote...
Indeed, not to mention the many stories has relating to his experience. When trying to seduce you, he mentions techniques that "one can only learn growing up in an Antivan ****house." He mentions how the Crows often pick elves because humans find them attractive, thus easier to seduce. He mentions the Crows require "a certain open-mindedness" to stay in their ranks; meaning they need assassins who can swing both ways so they'll have a greater chance of seducing potential targets, and they likely don't believe claims of "I'm bisexual" on good faith alone. :/
Guest_Faerunner_*
dralkjin wrote...
Faerunner, although I have never made one of my characters go to the tent with Alistair in my game, I have heard some of those conversation on youtube or read them in fan fictions, so I understand what you mean now. I agree that it is kind of funny how Alistair gets embarrassed so easily when someone tries to talk to him about sex. I’m surprised that he had the courage to ask Zevran how to woo someone, knowing that Zevran would probably make fun of him.
Klidi wrote...
This. I agree it's disturbing to think about it, especially if you remember that he was bought out from the Antivan brothel when he was seven.
In fact... Zevran shows signs of a survivor of child abuse. I knew a bit about that subject when I first played the game, and after I met Zev, I did a lot more research specifically about abuse of boys. I learned a lot of unpleasant facts, e.g. how kids are groomed to be prostitutes through pleasure and shame "but your body likes it, your body doesn't lie, it proves that even if you say no, you in fact want it, you're a dirty, naughty, shameless person and deserve all that happens to you..." Ever since I have a problem to read stories and fanfictions that use "but your body likes it" argument.
Indeed. I suspect that he did so intentionally because he did something similar with Fenris. (Technically a teenager or young adult when his master abused him, he was mindwiped by the the ritual forced on him and was as good as a child when his master took advantage of him.)I don't know if Gaider did all that research and if he intentionally wrote Zev that way; I like to think he did, and that alone earned him eternal respect from me.
Indeed. I've had characters that were turned off by Zevran's promiscuity and characters that were turned on by it, but I've never had characters that recognized it as a way to cope with childhood trauma. (Coping with hard life in general? Yes, but nothing deep as that.) Now I feel a tad guilty about it. :/Because, Zev really fits... He's flirting with everyone, he's promiscous, but, on the other hand, he has trouble to connect with other person on emotional level, and when things between him and the Warden get serious, he starts refusing sex. So in fact, his lecherous side is NOT him being so gret in coping with his difficult past - it's him not coping well at all, only suppressing memories and thoughs about his past and hiding behind a mask.
Amen!Normally healing of victims takes years. Zev, with the Warden's help, can make significant progress within just one year... He's ridiculously aweseme.
Modifié par Faerunner, 07 mai 2013 - 02:09 .
Bhryaen wrote...
Now Oghren by contrast is a bit overwrought on sexuality in his banter- as Sigrun ultimately exposes him for. So whatever Zev's personal hang-ups, he never gets so untoward or gets unmasked as such.
Guest_Faerunner_*
Bhryaen wrote...
Zev's humor and unbridled sexuality aren't the worst coping mechanisms to have though. Like Loghain said (after getting his ass kicked and deciding to be reasonable), facing the stress of command, most of his military colleagues turned to drink or religion. But it's not like Zev is a "sexaholic" or something, and much of the sex he talks in banter seems more a matter of teasing and using others' inhibitions against them deflectively than genuine interest.
We never said that he was. We--I'm merely pointing out that he is more deeply hurt than he allows himself or other people to believe. Not admitting pain to yourself or other people (particularly ones who care about you and want to help you) keeps you from confronting it, thus healing from it, which not a good way to live. (In fact, he tries to commit suicide by attacking the Warden--that's a pretty clear indication that he's not all that happy with himself or his life.)Not that "survivor recovery" isn't built into Zev- hard to see how it couldn't be at least in some way- but it's not as if he wears victimhood on his bootstraps. He himself responds to concern about his "upbringing" by pointing out that whatever suffering and privations he endured as a Crow, the lifestyle and social options he enjoyed weren't exactly dismal. Not many paupers are into their own haircare as much as he's alleged to be. So he's not exactly a cookie-cutter psych profile.
We never said that he was. We're saying, and I quote: "he has trouble to connect with other person on emotional level." And this is a problem because this difficulty in connecting emotionally helps to cost his relationship with and the life of Rinna (who he turned on partly because he didn't want to admit he cared about her) and it could (sometimes does) cost his relationship with the Warden since he withholds emotionally then withdraws physically.Plus it's not like he's been incapable of love until the Warden came along.
No, of course not. Klidi and I both acknowledge so in our posts. (Sorry to speak for you, Klidi.) Zevran is remarkably well-adjusted for someone who goes through what he has gone through (I still think he is a surprisingly great person despite a lifetime of being conditioned to be the opposite), and we acknowledge that he does overcome his emotional obstacles surprisingly quickly and efficiently. Zevran is just that ridiculously awesome!Zev's lack of an ongoing love life and the sanguinary scenery of his living hasn't kept him from becoming a strong and even somewhat wise person (despite his low Cunning score heh).
Modifié par Faerunner, 07 mai 2013 - 03:00 .
Modifié par whirlygirl9, 07 mai 2013 - 04:25 .
Oghren is a warrior and a drunk - there's nothing. His life was very different from Zev (I'm not saying "easier" or "worse", just different). Zevran was trained as an assassin who used his body to seduce his marks. While Oghren's crude comments are crude because he doesn't know any better, I always suspected that Zevran was overdoing it because we wanted to scare the others away.Bhryaen wrote...
Now Oghren by contrast is a bit overwrought on sexuality in his banter- as Sigrun ultimately exposes him for. So whatever Zev's personal hang-ups, he never gets so untoward or gets unmasked as such. Zev seems a mite more self-aware....
Yes, one would expect that victims of abuse will be all angsty, depressed, avoiding sex... There are no "cookie-cutter psych profiles" - these things can't be generalised, of course, each person's reaction is individual just as conditions of each abuse case is individual. But, according to sources I found (you don't have to trust me, google it yourself), among more common singns are liberal views on sex, flirting, promiscuity, easy-going attitude, ignoring or brushing away painful memories, refusal to talk about it, pretending 'it's the past now, I'm ok', and on the other hand, problems with trusting people, connecting on a deeper level, more intimate and permanent relationship, expressing the feelings...Bhryaen wrote...
Not that "survivor recovery" isn't built into Zev- hard to see how it couldn't be at least in some way- but it's not as if he wears victimhood on his bootstraps. He himself responds to concern about his "upbringing" by pointing out that whatever suffering and privations he endured as a Crow, the lifestyle and social options he enjoyed weren't exactly dismal. Not many paupers are into their own haircare as much as he's alleged to be. So he's not exactly a cookie-cutter psych profile. Consider also:
True, and that's why he fascinates me.Bhryaen wrote...
1. He's already fairly savvy about interpersonal reality. He's just too good at pushing people's buttons to be so caught up in his "inner angst" as to not be aware of other people's feelings.
2. He's already developed healthy personality traits- humor and wit topmost, but also a good measure of self-honesty, a key ingredient in sanity. He makes no rationalizations for his murder of Rinna, for ex. and truly struggles to come to terms with himself over it.
3. He's also developed a healthy outlook for embracing positive change in life. After all, after a lifetime as a Crow he flips from being a Crow to a loyal Gray Warden companion in a matter of minutes. Not everyone is so versatile, even when facing liberation.
4. Despite his recurring concern for the welfare of elves, he criticizes the Denerim Alienage elves for being complacent about their treatment- refusing to adopt a victim status as a crutch.:
True, but the incident happened because of his inability to trust her - even though they were lovers, he was ready to believe she was a traitor and assissted in her execution, even spat on her corpse.Bhryaen wrote...
Plus it's not like he's been incapable of love until the Warden came along. He felt for Rinna but never got the chance to have a heart-to-heart and risk emotional vulnerability with her (if she were capable) before the incident happened.
I agree!Bhryaen wrote...
Zev's lack of an ongoing love life and the sanguinary scenery of his living hasn't kept him from becoming a strong and even somewhat wise person (despite his low Cunning score heh).
He did - without his voice, Zev wouldn't be Zev.Bhryaen wrote...
Maybe his voice actor made light of Zev as over-sexed in a single soundbite, but he certainly voiced all Zev's emotional nuances through the game splendidly.
I fully recommend it! It's different to watch it on youtube with a strange Warden and to watch it with your Warden.Bhryaen wrote...
Bah, but maybe I can't really speak. I just discovered that my Sywynlae never even got Zev's earring offer somehow (just due to neglected opportunities, not a bug). At least he did stay with her to help train new Wardens. *sigh* Maybe on my replay of Kruklya in a while I'll manage to play through his romance fully for once...
Modifié par Klidi, 07 mai 2013 - 09:06 .
Modifié par Bhryaen, 07 mai 2013 - 10:11 .
Modifié par ejoslin, 07 mai 2013 - 11:04 .
Modifié par BloodsongVengeance, 08 mai 2013 - 03:49 .
Guest_Faerunner_*
Bhryaen wrote...
Hm, seems my last post came across as a polemic... for something. I'd meant mostly only to accentuate a part of the picture that seemed lacking, not to contradict anything.






Modifié par Bhryaen, 11 mai 2013 - 06:03 .