8061 réponses à ce sujet

[SherryGold]

I'm not sure whether this has been brought up before. My PC was in the Dalish camp with Zevran, and asked him about what he thought of Dalish. By now, I know which option to choose to maximize his approval when I talk to him, so that's not the point. I just remembered that if I choose the option 'was the woodcutter your father?' I will get minor disapproval, which of course pretty easy to rectify, Zev being Zev and pretty easy going most of the time. My question is why asking that particular question would bother Zevran. Any thoughts? Have I missed something?

[springacres]

I would guess that it's because Zev sees that question as an unwelcome reminder of his illegitimate status, even if it's not intended that way.  The game is, after all, set in a time and society where illegitimate children are stigmatized.  By contrast, ALL origins (apart from the Magi Origin, if you headcanon that your mage was brought to the Circle at a very young age) at least know who their parents are or were.  Even the City Elf and Dwarf Commoner remember their absent parent, and a Surana who was raised in an orphanage could at least have memories of a parental figure.  So I think that for Zev, being asked about his father serves as a reminder of one more thing that sets him apart as socially inferior.

[Ghost Gal]

He could also be upset because you're questioning his mother's integrity by asking if the woodcutter she left the Dalish to marry was his father.

 

He talks about how she was a Dalish who moved to the city to marry his father, who died soon after, then she had to become a prostitute to put food on the table.

 

Given how much stigmatization his mother gets for being a prostitute, and he gets for being the son of a prostitute ("whoreson" gets thrown at him a lot), Zevran's probably used to but also bothered by people constantly implying that she became a prostitute because she's fundamentally sexually deviant and/or morally inferior (and that he, by extension, is fundamentally filthy and inferior for being her son), not because she was a good woman who fell on hard times and did what she had to to survive.

 

When he tells you her story, and you immediately ask, "Was the woodcutter your father?", to him it might be implying that right from the get-go that you're also questioning her sexual integrity just because she happened to be a prostitute. That maybe she cheated or the story of the woodcutter was a lie, or that Zevran really was indeed born from illicit sexual acts (which, in this society, sets him up as fundamentally filthy and flawed from conception) instead of a loving monogamous marriage (which would be one of the few things he could be proud of).

 

Just my guess.

[springacres]

He could also be upset because you're questioning his mother's integrity by asking if the woodcutter she left the Dalish to marry was his father.

<snip>

Considering that Antivan society is loosely based on Spanish (and to a lesser extent Italian) society, and in both Spanish and Italian culture insulting someone's mother is about as low as you can go (to put it mildly), you could very well be right about that.  I have yet to play a character who asks Zev that question in the first place, though (even my F!Cousland might think twice about asking it... though I can see a different Cousland or an Aeducan being less sensitive/more "look how much better I am than you").

[Ghost Gal]

Considering that Antivan society is loosely based on Spanish (and to a lesser extent Italian) society, and in both Spanish and Italian culture insulting someone's mother is about as low as you can go (to put it mildly), you could very well be right about that.  I have yet to play a character who asks Zev that question in the first place, though (even my F!Cousland might think twice about asking it... though I can see a different Cousland or an Aeducan being less sensitive/more "look how much better I am than you").

 

Ah, I didn't know that bit about Spanish and Italian culture, so there you go.

 

I'll admit my City Elf Warden also wondered if the woodcutter was his father when Zevran first brought it up, but it seemed too rude to ask. Zevran seems to speak of his mother fondly and rather sadly, so it just seems so callous to immediately ask "was he your father?" after Zevran just explained that his mother became a prostitute only because she'd been a Dalish who moved to the city to marry a man for love. It'd be like if my gal told him about how her mother was a clever rogue who was killed by humans, then his first question was, "Did she provoke the guard?"

[SherryGold]

He could also be upset because you're questioning his mother's integrity by asking if the woodcutter she left the Dalish to marry was his father.

 

He talks about how she was a Dalish who moved to the city to marry his father, who died soon after, then she had to become a prostitute to put food on the table.

 

Given how much stigmatization his mother gets for being a prostitute, and he gets for being the son of a prostitute ("whoreson" gets thrown at him a lot), Zevran's probably used to but also bothered by people constantly implying that she became a prostitute because she's fundamentally sexually deviant and/or morally inferior (and that he, by extension, is fundamentally filthy and inferior for being her son), not because she was a good woman who fell on hard times and did what she had to to survive.

 

When he tells you her story, and you immediately ask, "Was the woodcutter your father?", to him it might be implying that right from the get-go that you're also questioning her sexual integrity just because she happened to be a prostitute. That maybe she cheated or the story of the woodcutter was a lie, or that Zevran really was indeed born from illicit sexual acts (which, in this society, sets him up as fundamentally filthy and flawed from conception) instead of a loving monogamous marriage (which would be one of the few things he could be proud of).

 

Just my guess.

Are you saying Zevran already implied that the woodcutter was indeed his father and thus he was legitimate even though his mother was a prostitute and the question could be interpreted as questioning whether his father could be someone else, say a client, and he could be a bastard as well as a son of a ******? I think it makes sense why he gets upset if he interprets it that way. I guess my PC was guilty of not realizing how hurt he was from all the things life threw at him, but then that's part of many reasons why I love and admire Zevran's character. He puts on a cheerful front even when he talks about all the dreadful things he survived. I never suspected he would have been bothered if he were illegitimate.

[SherryGold]

You know the things Zevran say when you click on him, after he reaches adore. Do you know what they mean exactly? I love hearing them but often don't know what they are supposed to mean. I think 'Si Amora' is 'Yes, my love'. But other than that I've no idea.

[springacres]

Are you saying Zevran already implied that the woodcutter was indeed his father and thus he was legitimate even though his mother was a prostitute and the question could be interpreted as questioning whether his father could be someone else, say a client, and he could be a bastard as well as a son of a ******? I think it makes sense why he gets upset if he interprets it that way. I guess my PC was guilty of not realizing how hurt he was from all the things life threw at him, but then that's part of many reasons why I love and admire Zevran's character. He puts on a cheerful front even when he talks about all the dreadful things he survived. I never suspected he would have been bothered if he were illegitimate.

That's why I lean more towards the idea that it reminds him how different he is from almost anyone else in the party (even a Surana or an Amell who was taken at a young age has a surrogate family of sorts in the Circle) than that he's upset at the implication of illegitimacy.

 

I do love that he tries so hard to put on a cheerful front, though.  He may still struggle in situations like the fight with Taliesin or any mention of Rinna, but for the most part he's obviously decided that being angry all the time would take too much effort.  It makes situations like the two I mentioned above that much more remarkable.  In fact, when Zev first mentioned the mission right before he came to Ferelden and then said he would rather not discuss it, my Warden's immediate reaction was "WHOA, that doesn't sound like something I should ask him about right now."

[Ghost Gal]

Are you saying Zevran already implied that the woodcutter was indeed his father and thus he was legitimate even though his mother was a prostitute and the question could be interpreted as questioning whether his father could be someone else, say a client, and he could be a bastard as well as a son of a ******? I think it makes sense why he gets upset if he interprets it that way. I guess my PC was guilty of not realizing how hurt he was from all the things life threw at him, but then that's part of many reasons why I love and admire Zevran's character. He puts on a cheerful front even when he talks about all the dreadful things he survived. I never suspected he would have been bothered if he were illegitimate.

 

I don't know, I'm just guessing.

 

It's subtle, but he seems pretty fond of the idea of his mother when he talks about her, and he seems to almost subconsciously defend her occupation when he mentions her being a prostitute. Since she lived in a society that still judges her moral character for her occupation, it seems telling to me that he frames the story in a way that puts her in a good light. "She was Dalish, she left her clan to marry a woodcutter for love, he died soon after, she turned to prostitution."

 

By asking "Was the woodcutter your father?" to me it implies that you're buying into society's attitude that being a prostitute meant that maybe she really was sexually deviant even before she took the red (that maybe she was already sleeping around before or while she was moving to live with the woodcutter, that maybe she cheated on him, that she didn't actually marry the woodcutter, or he died before they married and she moved straight into prostitution, etc) and if he's fond of his mother it can be mildly hurtful. He's opening up by telling you something that might be near and dear to him, and even if you don't mean it hurtfully, asking that question in that way in that moment might hit a swore spot for him.

 

As others have said though, Zevran is a pretty understanding and easy-going guy. He doesn't hold your curiosity against you, but by the same token, the question probably (unintentionally) jabs a sore spot.

[springacres]

Zev mentions very early on that his mother died giving birth to him, but I see Shiara's point about his being fond of her since the prostitutes who raised him probably told him stories about her.  Certainly, the fact that he held onto her gloves for so long suggests he was as fond of her as a child who has never known their parent is capable of being towards said parent.

 

Just one of the things that made my Warden want to wrap him up in a blanket and protect him from anything bad that might come his way again.

[Ghost Gal]

Zev mentions very early on that his mother died giving birth to him, but I see Shiara's point about his being fond of her since the prostitutes who raised him probably told him stories about her.  Certainly, the fact that he held onto her gloves for so long suggests he was as fond of her as a child who has never known their parent is capable of being towards said parent.

 

Just one of the things that made my Warden want to wrap him up in a blanket and protect him from anything bad that might come his way again.

 

Yeah... my first Warden who romanced Zevran was too emotionally damaged herself to show him the kind of love and affection he deserved (Surana, a Circle elf who is bad at showing affection since she was torn from her family before memory and was raised in a cold hard tower), but this is a huge reason why I want to play another Warden (maybe City Elf) who is capable of giving him the kisses and snuggles he deserves.

 

LOL now that you mentioned it, I found it odd that in DAI

Spoiler

Zevran is the only DAO LI who is explicitly stated to be with the Warden (as the other three are, at best, still in a relationship with the Warden but unable to be with him/her at present.

I found it odd at first, until you said that just now. I realized that Zevran probably has the suckiest life of all the companions, bar none, and he can potentially die at many points in the game (depending one the Warden's choice), or face the most heartbreak if the Warden romances him then kicks it (since his epilogue slide and DA2 appearance show that he is still in mourning over seven years later, and can never love again), so the devs probably thought, "Aw heck, let's throw the dog a bone. He made it this far, he deserves some happiness in his life."

[Illegitimus]

Alistair can't be with her because he has to be king in one common ending.  Leliana can't be with them because she's a lead character in Inquisition (because of her Chantry connection).  Morrigan could have been with him, but then they wouldn't have addressed the OGB loose plot thread  But now I'm imagining Zevran as the Inquisition's spymaster.  No...don't think it would work out with Dorian there.  

[springacres]

Alistair can't be with her because he has to be king in one common ending.  Leliana can't be with them because she's a lead character in Inquisition (because of her Chantry connection).  Morrigan could have been with him, but then they wouldn't have addressed the OGB loose plot thread  But now I'm imagining Zevran as the Inquisition's spymaster.  No...don't think it would work out with Dorian there.  

IIRC, you can get a letter from Zev (don't know if it would apply to a romanced Zev whose lover made the US, but from what I hear it applies to an unromanced Zev who survived Origins) that mentions his friendship with the Inquisition's spymaster, so I very much doubt he's the spymaster himself.  (Haven't played Inquisition, but those spoiler tags on the wiki are so tempting to peek under...)  So I definitely lean towards Shiara's explanation.

[Illegitimus]

IIRC, you can get a letter from Zev (don't know if it would apply to a romanced Zev whose lover made the US, but from what I hear it applies to an unromanced Zev who survived Origins) that mentions his friendship with the Inquisition's spymaster, so I very much doubt he's the spymaster himself.  (Haven't played Inquisition, but those spoiler tags on the wiki are so tempting to peek under...)  So I definitely lean towards Shiara's explanation.

 

I said "imagining".  I know who the spymaster actually was.  

[springacres]

I said "imagining".  I know who the spymaster actually was.  

That's what I get for reading too quickly so late at night.  Thanks for pointing out my misreading

[SherryGold]

Zev mentions very early on that his mother died giving birth to him, but I see Shiara's point about his being fond of her since the prostitutes who raised him probably told him stories about her.  Certainly, the fact that he held onto her gloves for so long suggests he was as fond of her as a child who has never known their parent is capable of being towards said parent.

 

Just one of the things that made my Warden want to wrap him up in a blanket and protect him from anything bad that might come his way again.

My MCousland was extremely protective of Zevran. He looks so vulnerable, physically, from the viewpoint of a human male, even knowing what Zevran is capable of. My elf mage thought him as more of a protector in any battle and my elf rogue treated him as an equal partner. But I know what you mean about wanting to protect him from any harm, even though Zevran is a strong survivor. 

Where do you post your fan fictions? I used to write fan fictions, but with this game, my Warden can give Zevran a happy sort of ending and I just love playing the game and having him in my company so there was no motivation for me to write a Zevran fiction. (I wrote a lot of fan fictions about Lucien Lachance from Oblivion because his ending was so tragic that I just had to change it. He is a very different type of assassin and it was a total surprise for me that I could fall for the Zev type of assassin.). I still love reading about Zevran though and would love to see your work.

[springacres]

None of my fanfics are in anywhere near a finished state, but if I ever do get around to finishing and posting one, I'll be sure to share it here!

[Ghost Gal]

Alistair can't be with her because he has to be king in one common ending. Leliana can't be with them because she's a lead character in Inquisition (because of her Chantry connection). Morrigan could have been with him, but then they wouldn't have addressed the OGB loose plot thread But now I'm imagining Zevran as the Inquisition's spymaster. No...don't think it would work out with Dorian there.

I know the in-universe reasons they aren't with the Warden. They all make appearances in the game and the Warden doesn't, so if they need different reasons to explain why depending on player choices.

I was just surprised to find that not only did Zevran not make an appearance in DAI, but was explicitly written to be still happily facing the world with the Warden. Not even some "he's dealing with Crow Business in Antiva while they're searching for a cure out West" excuse. Then when springaces mentioned Zevran's sucky life but good attitude, I half-jokingly thought maybe that has something to do with it. He's done his time, he's earned a bit of happiness with his beloved in DAI.

[SherryGold]

None of my fanfics are in anywhere near a finished state, but if I ever do get around to finishing and posting one, I'll be sure to share it here!

I look forward to seeing your work. I know it isn't easy to finish fan fictions, especially if you haven't kept up writing it for a while, but he could always do with more love.

[LadyKarrakaz]

Look at this mazing art from RuxandraLache on DeviantArt 

 

[Alvarie]

Does anyone have a recommended zevran fanfic? I've been looking but haven't found alot, that are also long.

Thanks

[springacres]

I might be able to recommend a few.  What are your tastes in terms of content?

[SherryGold]

This one is great, although the author hasn't quite finished it.

http://bldsong.net/d...x.php?board=3.0

 

The author also made some brilliant YouTube clips in case you haven't seen them already.

https://www.youtube....h?v=-qjS7TGjtYk

 

https://www.youtube....4310F5&index=17

[Qun00]

How much approval is required to prevent Zevran from betraying you?

[SherryGold]

How much approval is required to prevent Zevran from betraying you?

I'm not sure about the exact approval point, but if you are not romancing Zevran, I think it should be warm or something like that. On one particular round, I wanted to have him talk about Taleseen so I deliberately withheld all his presents to keep his approval below seventy until we encountered the crows. It was still higher than 50, I'm sure. I chose 'I should be dead first' line to make him withdraw from the fight (if you choose 'Zevran doesn't need Crows any more', he will still fight beside you.) I sometimes wish I could give him the option to stay out of the fight even when his approval rating is really high, cause it doesn't seem right for him to have to fight his formal comrade and lover.

 

Does anyone know what happens if you choose 'I will kill you all'? Does Zevran interpret it as you are going to kill him as well and turn against you?