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[wildannie]

Kornichon wrote...

what do you think about Zevran french voice?
on this video he don't talk much so you can't get all his differents tones but during all the game his voice is soooo hot!

the english voice is fun but a bit weird to me.... and now I'm curious about the others foreign languages

oo the french sounds strange to me (certainly not helped by not understanding French!).  Didn't think the french Dog was very convincing... just sounds the same!

[maradeux]

I had no problem to understand them (at least they speak quite slowly), but it's odd to hear them speaking with another voice again - I started with the German version and already had to become accostumed to the English voices - and was surprised that Leliana and Zevran had an accent - they don't have one in the German version - Leli just sounds sweet and naive, Zevran sounds arrogant (but sexy ).

(@thread - I've given up to follow all the posts this week. Sorry...)

Question: Does anyone know, where in Antiva the mage-tower is situated?

Modifié par maradeux, 08 septembre 2010 - 09:34 .

[ejoslin]

One more cry/rant. What is the time period between Awakening and Witch Hunt? I guess what I really don't understand is why they had to take the romance ending from Origins, which really could end on a very committed note (as in, they could be engaged), and destroy it. Zevran not being there could be explained away in ways that didn't mean that he left the warden and they were separated for a few years before he/she chased him down in Antiva.

Why ruin a beautiful ending to a beautiful romance? I really don't get it. Since there wasn't anything made about him taking over the Crows or anything in a DLC, there was absolutely zero need to do this. It added nothing to the story, and took so much away

This was the one who said, "Wherever you go, I will gladly follow."  "You caught me, and now you're stuck with me.  Sad, but we'll manage."  He is destroyed if you do the US while he's in love, never letting anyone close again.  Yet, ummm, he leaves for a few YEARS to go home and has to be chased?

Bleh, I suddenly get why MorriMancers were so upset.  But I have a strong feeling we won't get the same kind of resolution.

Edit: The worst of it is, it HAD a happy ending.  It just took an additional epilogue slide and a timeline that went quite a bit into the future to take it away.  WHY?   

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 septembre 2010 - 10:28 .

[Tellervo]

Ejo, I have no answers, except to say that it equally pisses me off. Why ruin it if you don't intend to use that to your advantage in the future? Perhaps if they'd intended to make more DLC and needed to set it up, I could understand (though that's a fairly weak excuse), but they clearly knew at some relatively early point that they wouldn't be if DA2 is so very close to completion.



The only thing I can think of? Spite. Which makes little sense, but is the only explanation I can conceive of.

[Jayelet]

@Ejoslin -- Welcome back from vacation, I hope you had a genius.
I have a heretical theory, like all mine.
The first reason was.
Not create Zevran DLC, ever.
Why in Zevran Origins has the best romance of all, including the two alleged protagonists Alistair and Morrigan. For that reason we purposely left so many bug in Zevran romance, when they realized they left the bug to minimize the romance.
The mod that you Ejoslin and Chans creastes changed that.
The second.
The amount of homophobia that woke up the romance. The amount of macho (as they say in Spanish) that exists and that they were deeply offended.
The misfortune of the Zevran fan, is that DLC will never see a really interests us.

I hope I have managed to explain and not get involved with the language.

PS: In the Spanish version of the game, the dialogues are in English, have only translated the Sustitulada.

Edit: I feel that they already knew. Now I remember a conversation with Sabrina in which he said he would never again see a complex and beautiful romance ever.

Modifié par Jayelet, 08 septembre 2010 - 10:47 .

[ICevoL]

ejoslin wrote...

One more cry/rant. What is the time period between Awakening and Witch Hunt? I guess what I really don't understand is why they had to take the romance ending from Origins, which really could end on a very committed note (as in, they could be engaged), and destroy it. Zevran not being there could be explained away in ways that didn't mean that he left the warden and they were separated for a few years before he/she chased him down in Antiva.

Why ruin a beautiful ending to a beautiful romance? I really don't get it. Since there wasn't anything made about him taking over the Crows or anything in a DLC, there was absolutely zero need to do this. It added nothing to the story, and took so much away

This was the one who said, "Wherever you go, I will gladly follow."  "You caught me, and now you're stuck with me.  Sad, but we'll manage."  He is destroyed if you do the US while he's in love, never letting anyone close again.  Yet, ummm, he leaves for a few YEARS to go home and has to be chased?

Bleh, I suddenly get why MorriMancers were so upset.  But I have a strong feeling we won't get the same kind of resolution.

Edit: The worst of it is, it HAD a happy ending.  It just took an additional epilogue slide and a timeline that went quite a bit into the future to take it away.  WHY?   

*hugs ejoslin*

This is precisely the reason I didn't buy Awakenings.  As far as I'm concerned all that garbage is AU and didn't happen.  All of my Wardens have their stories end with the credits of DAO, since BioWare apparently stopped caring about the fantastic characters and stories they'd created at that time. 

Don't see why I should aknowledge their cruddy treatment of DAO fans (post original game) by giving them money, or by letting them destroy the endings/future I have in mind for my Wardens and their LIs (usually Zevran, of course).  My imagination apparently comes up with better story resolutions than a group of professionals with a huge budget and a team of QA people who are supposed to catch these kind of inconsistencies.

[Zjarcal]

ejoslin wrote...

One more cry/rant. What is the time period between Awakening and Witch Hunt?  

Awakening takes place six months after Origins while Witch Hunt takes place a year after Origins. So there's a six month time gap between them.

And I feel for you guys. My advice would be to simply ignore the Awakening epilogue slide. It never happened. Shoo!

EDIT: Looks like ICevoL is on the right track about ignoring everything post Origins.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 08 septembre 2010 - 11:09 .

[Eislyn]

Interesting. Bioware is asking for beta tester's for a Witch Hunt patch.



http://social.biowar...4/index/4731542



Why now, when they haven't fully fixed the bugs in Origins?

[Sarah1281]

Why now, when they haven't fully fixed the bugs in Origins?

Because the inability for Morrigan to remember if you've done the ritual is more blatant than some of the existing origins ones?

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Why now, when they haven't fully fixed the bugs in Origins?

Because the inability for Morrigan to remember if you've done the ritual is more blatant than some of the existing origins ones?

Yeah, on the list of major bugs, the one from WH stands at the very top. This bug effectively ruins the story for most people.

[ejoslin]

Heh, not sure why they don't fix the origin bugs as well -- there are romance and game breaking bugs galore in Origins. My guess is they're fixing it because this will make a big difference in the future story. Alistair being referred to as king when he's not, Leliana giving the wrong dialog if she's hardened, Zevran's numerous romance breaking bugs... these are not so important in the grand scheme of thing. Morrigan, though; yeh, she will continue to be important, and the OGB and whether the warden is still with her, it will be major.

Really, though, back on about ruining Zevran's ending... what gets me most about it is it was completely unnecessary.  Ah well. (rest of rant deleted).

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 septembre 2010 - 11:51 .

[Zjarcal]

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, not sure why they don't fix the origin bugs as well...

Because you, Terra_Ex, and the rest of the modders did their job for them? Seriously, you guys should apply for a job at Bioware.

[caridounette]

 I went and read some of the DA2 forum. Theres some info on how the new romances will work. I think it could somehow have worked nicely for Zevran.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/4730423

The new rivalery/approve triggers for romance make me think of how some goody Wardens get to see through Zevran's first convos ( the ones he has to shock you and such) and eventually find some middle ground for <3

[Corker]

ejoslin wrote...
This was the one who said, "Wherever you go, I will gladly follow."  "You caught me, and now you're stuck with me.  Sad, but we'll manage."  He is destroyed if you do the US while he's in love, never letting anyone close again.  Yet, ummm, he leaves for a few YEARS to go home and has to be chased?

Bleh, I suddenly get why MorriMancers were so upset.  But I have a strong feeling we won't get the same kind of resolution.

Edit: The worst of it is, it HAD a happy ending.  It just took an additional epilogue slide and a timeline that went quite a bit into the future to take it away.  WHY?   

At a guess...

Bob: All right!  Witch Hunt is done!

Jack: Not so fast.  People who didn't romance Morrigan are going to want to hear about their LIs.

Bob: Uh... didn't we cover that at the end of Origins?  And kind of again in Awakening?

Jack: New DLC, Bob.  If you don't give them a new tidbit about their LI, they get mad.

Bob: Oh. Really?

Jack: Oh yeah.

Bob: Huh.  Okay, so... Zevran, what's he up to?

Jack: Eh, he's off to Antiva or something.  Isn't that what it said at the end of Origins?  

Bob: Uh, some of them, I think.

Jack: Well, now it's for all of them.  But... make it so that they can get him back, or else there will be hell to pay.

Bob: ...the Warden chases him to Antiva?

Jack: Make it so.

[ejoslin]

@Corker This made me laugh so hard.

@caridounette I have to admit, I followed the link, and groaned when I read "action RPG." I mean, I kind of knew already, but I haven't really been following the DA2 forums.  Another "why" I guess. DA:O was so successful, and it was created for a certain market. The fact that people from OTHER market segments bought it and played it and enjoyed it (though would have preferred it to be more action-y) doesn't mean you should ditch the original market and cater to the other markets.

I swear, I hate EA.

Edit: And seriously, I have been very annoying with all my complaining and for that I apologize!  FO:NV is coming out in a little over a month!  I can't wait!  The very funny thing about FO:NV is it's going to have more RPG elements than FO3.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 septembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[caridounette]

@Ejo Humm i dont know much about game labelling, i always thought DAO was an action RPG (thats why we had the Deep Roads and the Fade segments).

I was happy to read what Mary Kirby and David Gaider had to say in the actual post (not the interview). I dont know why im hopeful. Maybe cause i know they can make some nice romances. Theres Zev of course but Ali and Morrigan arent that bad either. Maybe they can do it again /crosses fingers



I dont know much about FO. I got The Witcher just a little while ago and didnt go the first chapter. Its hard to find games for female gamers to relate. Ill jsut go and replay DAO !

[EccentricSage]

ejoslin wrote...

@Corker This made me laugh so hard.

@caridounette I have to admit, I followed the link, and groaned when I read "action RPG." I mean, I kind of knew already, but I haven't really been following the DA2 forums.  Another "why" I guess. DA:O was so successful, and it was created for a certain market. The fact that people from OTHER market segments bought it and played it and enjoyed it (though would have preferred it to be more action-y) doesn't mean you should ditch the original market and cater to the other markets.

I swear, I hate EA.

Edit: And seriously, I have been very annoying with all my complaining and for that I apologize!  FO:NV is coming out in a little over a month!  I can't wait!  The very funny thing about FO:NV is it's going to have more RPG elements than FO3.  

I enjoy your complaining.  Usually I'm the one complaining.  I like not being alone.  *sigh*  Though I'd rather enjoy not being alone in being happy about DA2, which I am not.  It might end up being a good game, but it lacks the special appeal real hardcore RPGs have for me.  I'll go out of my way to play a good RPG, yet there are award winning games of other genres such as Action that just don't hold enough apeal for me to bother.

I think I will torrent it when it comes out to see if I fall in love again, and then if I love it enough to want to even finish a playthrough, I'll buy it.  And I am notoreous for getting too bored and not finishing games.  Morrowind and DA:O are two very special exceptions.  I might give Bioware's previous RPGs a go before I bother with DA2.

[ejoslin]

If you fall in love with it, I seriously want to know!  I'll only buy it if people who have similar tastes tell me it's fantastic.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 septembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[TanithAeyrs]

*HUGS* ejoslin.

I too, am not happy with the lack of Zev DLC and the crappy Awakening epilogue. I think the worst crime Bioware commited was to make such fabulous romances (with Zevran's being by far the best) and then not leaving us with our happy ending. At least they didn't do the "rocks fall everyone dies" -glares at Obsidian. I still want my happy ending though, and I would dearly love a Zev DLC. In the mean time, I'm sure that Zev is happily sailing off to find adventure with Aithne.

[TanithAeyrs]

Corker wrote...

Seems an opportune time to drop a link to my WIP module:
A Murder of Crows

I'm starting to think that I've got all the quests ideas I need and it's time to start putting some detail into things (particularly encounters within each Crow Master's house).  If there's some exploration of Antivan life that you're dying to see and I missed, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Love this, absolutely a great way to resolve things with Zev.

[EccentricSage]

Corker wrote...

Seems an opportune time to drop a link to my WIP module:
A Murder of Crows

I'm starting to think that I've got all the quests ideas I need and it's time to start putting some detail into things (particularly encounters within each Crow Master's house).  If there's some exploration of Antivan life that you're dying to see and I missed, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

This looks good! 

Question, though:  I thought Arinai was his mother's maiden name?  I could be wrong, as I do not remember why I thought this. 

Also, I think it would be even better if the issue of how the Crows are run and how they recruit is adressed through side quests with Patriot points rewarded depending uppon how Zevran feels about the outcomes, as well as aproval or disaproval points for the PC's part in it.  I think it would be important that Zevran would adress the cruelty of the organization and would have strong opinions on such matters that the Warden would be hard pressed to persuade-check him on, since this would hit much closer to home than the choices in Origins where Zevran speeks out against PC decissions. 

I think it really deserves this kind of depth.  After all, this is an organization that thrives on slavery, torture, murder, and the brutalization of children.  I think there's a bigger decision to be made reguarding how the Crows will be led/ how they will operate in the future, because of decissions and alliances you and Zevran make.  It shouldn't be just an easy matter of who will be more trustworthy and who will likely backstab you.  Likewise, it would be awesome if there were ways to balance the orginization back out and prevent it from becoming too weak once you make changes and kill masters.  If the player fails to do quests and make the right decisions to balance it, then maybe the ending slide could reflect that. 

Just some ideas.  Though I know that would be a pain in the ass to include.

I really admire that someone is undertaking such a massive task to begin with.

[Remmirath]

With regards to the Awakening ending/lack of DLC thing... I sort of get the impression that they intended for more DLC. I think they as much as said it somewhere (though I could be misremembering that). So, it's entirely possible that they did that because they intended it to be the basis of a DLC, but it never happened.

Which is unfortunate, in my opinion. I'm apparently one of the few people who basically liked all of the DLCs (well, aside from Darkspawn Chronicles which I simply didn't get because it didn't interest me, and Leliana's Song which I haven't tried yet) and Awakening. Obviously if they had done it and it were bad that would be worse, but I assume it would've been all right (or at least would've had a chance at it. I'm not real good at optimism).

Had I my druthers, though, I would rather have had two or more expansions instead of a bunch of short DLCs. I like long expansions. Especially if they'd continued a few of the original NPCs.

I'm waiting until the bug fix is done for Witch Hunt, because if I understand the problem rightly I can pretty much guarantee it'd effect me... and it'll probably take a lot less time to wait for it than to replay Return to Ostagar and Warden's Keep before the ending of the game and then replay the ending, Awakening and Golems of Amgarrak.

Do you guys think it would've been better or worse if the Awakening ending slide had been less vague? Me, I think - given that they were going to do something like that at all - it's probably best vague. I think it would've been better if they'd looked at what your ending slide was from Origins and modified it based on that, though.

Corker wrote...

Seems an opportune time to drop a link to my WIP module:
A Murder of Crows

I'm starting to think that I've got all the quests ideas I need and it's time to start putting some detail into things (particularly encounters within each Crow Master's house).  If there's some exploration of Antivan life that you're dying to see and I missed, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

That looks really good so far!

[Charsen]

if there were enough modders into it, i'm sure a zev dlc could be made via spliced dialog and creativity.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Well...does anyone here have the time/ability/inclination to collaborate on a Zevran mod?

I've written dialogue for mods before (not DA:O, but I'm sure I could pick up how the toolset works there), and I'd be willing to work on it if we could hammer out a decent plot.

But we'd also need:
More dialogue writers
Worldbuilders
Cinematic Artists
Custom art (if we want to get REALLY unique with building meshes, new items etc...I mean, if the story ends up going to Antiva, would we be ok with using Ferelden buildings?)
Voice Actors
Someone to kidnap Jim Curry (or a good imitator, if splicing just won't cut it)

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 09 septembre 2010 - 11:10 .

[Corker]

EccentricSage wrote...

Question, though:  I thought Arinai was his mother's maiden name?  I could be wrong, as I do not remember why I thought this. 

I don't think he ever says one way or the other.  Soignee proposed that the surname might be a Crow House name, and I thought maybe all the Crows who worked under the auspices of Nobleman X would be given his name, as in, "Who's that?"  "He's one of Arainai's."  They're not members of the House; they literally belong to it. 

But there's no canon support for that idea, either.

EccentricSage wrote...

Also, I think it would be even better if the issue of how the Crows are run and how they recruit is adressed through side quests with Patriot points rewarded depending uppon how Zevran feels about the outcomes, as well as aproval or disaproval points for the PC's part in it.  I think it would be important that Zevran would adress the cruelty of the organization and would have strong opinions on such matters that the Warden would be hard pressed to persuade-check him on, since this would hit much closer to home than the choices in Origins where Zevran speeks out against PC decissions. 

I agree, but I'm flailing a bit on how to address that without turning it into "Warden single-handedly abolishes Antivan slave culture in a frenzy of blood and violence."  Because you know the Warden could. I could put in some side quests addressing the issue from a few angles, including at least one youth selling himself into slavery because he hopes for a better life, but I just worry that it raises the question of, "Why doesn't the Warden just go down to the slave pens and start reaping a deadly harvest of slavers?"

I'm also very concerned that, precisely because this does hit quite close to home for Zevran, figuring out his reactions won't be easy (because they won't necessarily be logical) and, since I'm not his original author, I don't know if I should try to make those calls.  I'd like to think that Zev would stand up against Crow practices like he stands against killing the Dalish or the mages or the elves in the Alienage, but... 

People who have been through hazing generally defend the practice, even though it seems, on the outside, to be indefensible.  This is obviously an order of magnitude worse than that, but I do wonder if some of the same thinking would apply.  "Well, it's unpleasant but the system works to make good assassins.  *I* went through it and survived, so..."  So I could actually see Zevran defending Crow practices.  Not sure that would go down well.

(Although... that is kind of the point of the exercise.  I don't want to "spoil" Zevran for anyone, but I can't believe that he hasn't done some really dark things in his time, and they're all invisible in Origins.  They'll be visible in Antiva, and they both have to come to terms with what he's been in the past and what he wants to be in the future.)

Likewise, it would be awesome if there were ways to balance the orginization back out and prevent it from becoming too weak once you make changes and kill masters.  If the player fails to do quests and make the right decisions to balance it, then maybe the ending slide could reflect that. 

GET AN ARMY, ANTIVA.   (My preferred solution!  )  All the cool nations do it.  Even the Orlesians manage it.

I'll try to ponder on that.  I'll admit, I'm somewhat loathe to have assassins who are too 'good.' It's like having your cake and eating it, too. It seems more Bioware to say, "You can have this awesome Crow organization, but for this terrible price.  Or, you end the slave trade, the Crows fall and the Tevinter and the qunari use Antiva as their new playground."

Hm... maybe a side quest to sow the seeds of GET AN ARMY...