8061 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Collider wrote...

Hmmmm, I think you're kind of mean for depriving Wynne of her fun

I am truly a bad person.

Well, then, a dwarf kiss for you to melt that evil heart a little!  Truthfully, no one cares what you do in a single player game, but his story IS well written and worth going through.  

[Collider]

Well, then, a dwarf kiss for you to melt that evil heart a little! Truthfully, no one cares what you do in a single player game, but his story IS well written and worth going through.

I agree.

[caridounette]

EccentricSage wrote...


I agree completely.  I think Zevran would be very conflicted.  On one hand he's gotten to explore compassion and love (not necasarily romantic) with the Warden, and has for the most part embraced his kind side.  But on the other hand, I do not doubt one bit that he enjoyed the 'hunt' just as he said.  It would be verry easy for him to instinctively fall back into old ways, or to just freez up at times and not know what to do.

I think the compasionate side of him would want more rights and better treatment for the slaves, and freedom only if you can find a way not to collapse the whole system in doing so.  His pragmatic side would likely see the existance of the Crows as a necesity that can not be abolished in Antivan culture and politics.  Zevran has never said he thinks killing is wrong... just that people should die for the right reasons, actions should be measured, the kill should be clean, sometimes people have to die, and that's not fair, but that's life.  It's a mindset one isn't invited to play with very often.

I don't think he'd be ashamed of most of what he's done, though I think he would be worried about the Warden's reactions.  The fact that he is proud of what he is, yet at the same time has his own ethical code and compassion is what makes Zevran compelling instead of just another 'remorseful criminal with a heart of gold'.

I like how you put it ES. I dont remember Zevran putting his career in question. Hes an assassin and will keep doing it if he can ( from the 'do you like being an assassin' convo and 'what does it take to be an assassin' convo, or asking if Feralden royalty and Grey Wardens would need an assassin). What i dont see him do post-Blight (assuming friend/lover with Warden) is take any orders about who to kill. I see him do what he has to do to protect who he cares for or get a reward hes interested in.

About his idealistic vs pragmatic side. I think could see him go to great lenght for an apprentice he actually likes, but i wouldnt see him try to break the whole system. As EJ puts it, Crows are Antivan politic and culture. Id even see Zevran to be quite protective of it if he feels the Warden is being to overly rightious (Warden : this is evil we should eradicte it all! --- Zev: Oh really? How long have you lived here to say that? Youre an Antiva expert all the sudden?). Zevran isnt a judjmental person. He just does all he can to protect who/what he cares for.

[EccentricSage]

Corker wrote...

@jenovan, I can see your points about authority. My gut feeling, though, is that the real test of whether or not your apprentice Crow training has really stuck, whether or not you're *really* a cold, remorseless machine who'll do whatever the Masters say, is to involve you in the same things that were done to you. Now you can't claim you're innocent. You can't claim you're better-than. You're one of them, in every way, and you're such wretched scum for it that you'd better not ever even *think* you could be accepted elsewhere.
It's really bloody dark, and I admit that's why I was glossing it over. :/

That makes sence.  I think it's better story wise not to gloss it over.  I think Zevran kind of tests the warden's reactions and then tries to gloss it over when you first start conversing with him in origins.  But you kind of are left knowing, weather you choose to go into denial or not, that Zev has been through horrible things, and has learned to do horrible things, without or with minimal remorse.

I think, since he's been accepted outside the Crows though, and has gotten to know himself better, the encounter would be uncomfortable, no matter how proud he is of the younger Crow.  I think the horror of it all won't be lost on Zevran even if he accepts it as just a fact of life. 

I also imagine that suppiorting those recruites who survive and being proud of them is one of the few ways in which Crows can express their humanity without reprisal.  I can imagine someone like Zevran haveing to torture and kill recruites, all the while rooting for their successs not their failure.  I think that would be that spark of kindness that survived in some Crows, while others became cruel.

[soignee]

i can do:



--concept art

--basic, easy toolset shenanigans

--writing dialogue (better at this then world building,oddly.)



I can project manage if it's required, I'm good at cat herding.



*throws stuff into pot*

[Corker]

EccentricSage wrote...

That makes sence.  I think it's better story wise not to gloss it over. 

I do agree. All right, then.  But if I get hate mail over this, I'm forwarding it all to you. 

[EccentricSage]

caridounette wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...


I agree completely.  I think Zevran would be very conflicted.  On one hand he's gotten to explore compassion and love (not necasarily romantic) with the Warden, and has for the most part embraced his kind side.  But on the other hand, I do not doubt one bit that he enjoyed the 'hunt' just as he said.  It would be verry easy for him to instinctively fall back into old ways, or to just freez up at times and not know what to do.

I think the compasionate side of him would want more rights and better treatment for the slaves, and freedom only if you can find a way not to collapse the whole system in doing so.  His pragmatic side would likely see the existance of the Crows as a necesity that can not be abolished in Antivan culture and politics.  Zevran has never said he thinks killing is wrong... just that people should die for the right reasons, actions should be measured, the kill should be clean, sometimes people have to die, and that's not fair, but that's life.  It's a mindset one isn't invited to play with very often.

I don't think he'd be ashamed of most of what he's done, though I think he would be worried about the Warden's reactions.  The fact that he is proud of what he is, yet at the same time has his own ethical code and compassion is what makes Zevran compelling instead of just another 'remorseful criminal with a heart of gold'.

I like how you put it ES. I dont remember Zevran putting his career in question. Hes an assassin and will keep doing it if he can ( from the 'do you like being an assassin' convo and 'what does it take to be an assassin' convo, or asking if Feralden royalty and Grey Wardens would need an assassin). What i dont see him do post-Blight (assuming friend/lover with Warden) is take any orders about who to kill. I see him do what he has to do to protect who he cares for or get a reward hes interested in.

About his idealistic vs pragmatic side. I think could see him go to great lenght for an apprentice he actually likes, but i wouldnt see him try to break the whole system. As EJ puts it, Crows are Antivan politic and culture. Id even see Zevran to be quite protective of it if he feels the Warden is being to overly rightious (Warden : this is evil we should eradicte it all! --- Zev: Oh really? How long have you lived here to say that? Youre an Antiva expert all the sudden?). Zevran isnt a judjmental person. He just does all he can to protect who/what he cares for.

I agree.  That's a good point.

There is also the fact that his compassion tends to be directed at the nameless faceless masses that will be efected by your decisions, not so much an individual who's life you hold in your hands.  I think being relatively impersonal toward most individuals is something so deaply ingraned in him that he doesn't care if you knife Brother Genetivi in the head, for example.  He imediately falls back into killing being part of a job, and not something horrible.  It's a really facinating dynamic.

[EccentricSage]

Corker wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

That makes sence.  I think it's better story wise not to gloss it over. 

I do agree. All right, then.  But if I get hate mail over this, I'm forwarding it all to you. 

Sounds good for some casual trolling.   

[caridounette]

EccentricSage wrote...

That makes sence.  I think it's better story wise not to gloss it over.  I think Zevran kind of tests the warden's reactions and then tries to gloss it over when you first start conversing with him in origins.  But you kind of are left knowing, weather you choose to go into denial or not, that Zev has been through horrible things, and has learned to do horrible things, without or with minimal remorse.

I think, since he's been accepted outside the Crows though, and has gotten to know himself better, the encounter would be uncomfortable, no matter how proud he is of the younger Crow.  I think the horror of it all won't be lost on Zevran even if he accepts it as just a fact of life. 

I also imagine that suppiorting those recruites who survive and being proud of them is one of the few ways in which Crows can express their humanity without reprisal.  I can imagine someone like Zevran haveing to torture and kill recruites, all the while rooting for their successs not their failure.  I think that would be that spark of kindness that survived in some Crows, while others became cruel.

I really like what youre writing today ES ! :happy:

i think that what makes Zev so awsome a character is how he handles guilt and remorses. He really has his own 'code of conduct' (code of honor?) that has much more to go with who he likes then what is right/wrong.

I dont see Zev having had  a big leadership role in the Crows. Thats jsut too much work, too much chances to endup dead. Zev likes to take the good things in life, not build up a new world order ( thats Warden's job )

[Charsen]

ah, that old Zev + Wynne screenshot... XD

EccentricSage wrote...
  Long time no see!  *hug*

We should probably copy-paste the discussion whe had here into a thread there, as an archive, since so many ideas are already flying around. 

heya ES. good to see you back here too. =) 

yeah i am currently reading back over some ideas here and there... some things are probably not worth implementing due to complexity (meaning either not technically possible or not possible due to our resource limits), others would depend on whether we had more technical modders to help... need to just throw in a crazy amount of ideas and pull out stuff that will definitely work with the least potential for problems (because they will arise even with the most simple of plans).

[soignee]

Could people interested in the DLC please sign up here: http://social.bioware.com/group/2854/



So we know what we have to work with? There should be a new topic so people interested in taking part can list their skills and what they can do, and if allof us together can come up with something.



Thanks!

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

Could people interested in the DLC please sign up here: http://social.bioware.com/group/2854/

So we know what we have to work with? There should be a new topic so people interested in taking part can list their skills and what they can do, and if allof us together can come up with something.

Thanks!

*ponders signing up with the skill of procrastination*

I could procrastinate for all of you.

[Corker]

But you'll sign up for that tomorrow.

[soignee]

Corker wrote...

But you'll sign up for that tomorrow.

be dum tish!

well played corker, well played.

[sami jo]

Is it really awful of me to say that I have much higher hopes for a community-made Zev DLC than anything BW could put out? The community modules thus far have been at least as good as the official DLC, and we all love Zev enough to do it right.

[caridounette]

 Well BW did create Zev in the fist place, lets give them that please :innocent: 
but yes, we probably have a more 'fanbase' idea of what a module should be, instead of a 'promotional' view on it. 

[sami jo]

caridounette wrote...

 Well BW did create Zev in the fist place, lets give them that please :innocent: 
but yes, we probably have a more 'fanbase' idea of what a module should be, instead of a 'promotional' view on it. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the writers.  If David Gaider showed up on my doorstep, my husband would have some serious competition and I don't generally prefer men =P That said, the implementation of the writing has gone progressively down hill and they have been ham-strung to the point that they can hardly do their jobs.

[ejoslin]

Hmmmm, apparently Jon Curry is one of the voices in the English version of FF13. I just may have to give it a whirl. My husband bought it for me, oh, many months ago so it's time I tried it anyway!

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ICevoL wrote...

About voice-over work -- an online friend of mine works in the television business, and I asked her about this a while back.  She said that while VO work doesn't pay actors as much in a per hour sense, a lot of them like it because it's quick, easy money.  Based on what she explained to me, he main hurdles I can think of to having Jon Curry do the Zevran voice would be (1) getting a proposal to his agent [I looked at JC's IMDB profile, and he has contact information for "pro" users of the site] (2) getting recording studio time if he accepts, and (3) the big one is this -- since Zevran is owned by BioWare and EA, I don't know what kind of permissions (if any) we'd need to get to the intellectual property in order to have JC do this.

The money side of the equation seems the least of these issues.  Heck, if we could work out the rest of the details, I'd pay the man myself.  I'm not hurting for cash, so I'd gladly do this if we could use JC instead of using a replacement voice.

Just my thoughts on the subject -- YMMV

re: Jim Curry - That'd be awesome if we could actually get hold of him AT ALL. I wouldn't mind paying for his time either if we could actually get him voicing Zev.

re: intellectual property - for mods, I don't *think* it matters unless we are the ones making a profit. I would definitely want to get Mr Gaider's approval/blessing at the least for making a Zev mod, and maybe he could advise on any legalities to be aware of?

sami jo wrote...

Is it really awful of me to say that I
have much higher hopes for a community-made Zev DLC than anything BW
could put out? The community modules thus far have been at least as
good as the official DLC, and we all love Zev enough to do it
right.

In a way, modders/non-professionals are at a *huge* advantage because they can do whatever they like and aren't constrained by time, money, or the will of a publisher (like Electronic Arts). All they/we really need is ability and motivation to create a work of art.

[sami jo]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

ICevoL wrote...

About voice-over work -- an online friend of mine works in the television business, and I asked her about this a while back.  She said that while VO work doesn't pay actors as much in a per hour sense, a lot of them like it because it's quick, easy money.  Based on what she explained to me, he main hurdles I can think of to having Jon Curry do the Zevran voice would be (1) getting a proposal to his agent [I looked at JC's IMDB profile, and he has contact information for "pro" users of the site] (2) getting recording studio time if he accepts, and (3) the big one is this -- since Zevran is owned by BioWare and EA, I don't know what kind of permissions (if any) we'd need to get to the intellectual property in order to have JC do this.

The money side of the equation seems the least of these issues.  Heck, if we could work out the rest of the details, I'd pay the man myself.  I'm not hurting for cash, so I'd gladly do this if we could use JC instead of using a replacement voice.

Just my thoughts on the subject -- YMMV

re: Jim Curry - That'd be awesome if we could actually get hold of him AT ALL. I wouldn't mind paying for his time either if we could actually get him voicing Zev.

re: intellectual property - for mods, I don't *think* it matters unless we are the ones making a profit. I would definitely want to get Mr Gaider's approval/blessing at the least for making a Zev mod, and maybe he could advise on any legalities to be aware of?

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png[/smilie] That would put me over the moon.  I'd even chip in.
Perhaps we could pay him in flaming panties? (Sorry EJ, I couldn't resist.  I still think you should email him that. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie])

Seriously though, if we could convince him to do it, there shouldn't be all that many lines. 

Edited because I haven't been on the forum in too long and forgot to fix the quote things.

Modifié par sami jo, 10 septembre 2010 - 12:59 .

[ICevoL]

Competitive entries for this week's Zevran prompt are now closed. I will post the results tomorrow morning. Thanks to all who participated!

[TanithAeyrs]

sami jo wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

ICevoL wrote...

About voice-over work -- an online friend of mine works in the television business, and I asked her about this a while back.  She said that while VO work doesn't pay actors as much in a per hour sense, a lot of them like it because it's quick, easy money.  Based on what she explained to me, he main hurdles I can think of to having Jon Curry do the Zevran voice would be (1) getting a proposal to his agent [I looked at JC's IMDB profile, and he has contact information for "pro" users of the site] (2) getting recording studio time if he accepts, and (3) the big one is this -- since Zevran is owned by BioWare and EA, I don't know what kind of permissions (if any) we'd need to get to the intellectual property in order to have JC do this.

The money side of the equation seems the least of these issues.  Heck, if we could work out the rest of the details, I'd pay the man myself.  I'm not hurting for cash, so I'd gladly do this if we could use JC instead of using a replacement voice.

Just my thoughts on the subject -- YMMV

re: Jim Curry - That'd be awesome if we could actually get hold of him AT ALL. I wouldn't mind paying for his time either if we could actually get him voicing Zev.

re: intellectual property - for mods, I don't *think* it matters unless we are the ones making a profit. I would definitely want to get Mr Gaider's approval/blessing at the least for making a Zev mod, and maybe he could advise on any legalities to be aware of?

../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png That would put me over the moon.  I'd even chip in.
Perhaps we could pay him in flaming panties? (Sorry EJ, I couldn't resist.  I still think you should email him that. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png)

Seriously though, if we could convince him to do it, there shouldn't be all that many lines. 

Edited because I haven't been on the forum in too long and forgot to fix the quote things.

Finances are a little tight right now but I would chip in some too.   Also, if all else fails, the son of a very good friend of mine is in Hollywood trying to be an actor - so far he's doing better on the production end but I could tap him for some possible voice actors.

[Viva la France]

For the Zevran fans

[Hilde]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

sami jo wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

ICevoL wrote...

About voice-over work -- an online friend of mine works in the television business, and I asked her about this a while back.  She said that while VO work doesn't pay actors as much in a per hour sense, a lot of them like it because it's quick, easy money.  Based on what she explained to me, he main hurdles I can think of to having Jon Curry do the Zevran voice would be (1) getting a proposal to his agent [I looked at JC's IMDB profile, and he has contact information for "pro" users of the site] (2) getting recording studio time if he accepts, and (3) the big one is this -- since Zevran is owned by BioWare and EA, I don't know what kind of permissions (if any) we'd need to get to the intellectual property in order to have JC do this.

The money side of the equation seems the least of these issues.  Heck, if we could work out the rest of the details, I'd pay the man myself.  I'm not hurting for cash, so I'd gladly do this if we could use JC instead of using a replacement voice.

Just my thoughts on the subject -- YMMV

re: Jim Curry - That'd be awesome if we could actually get hold of him AT ALL. I wouldn't mind paying for his time either if we could actually get him voicing Zev.

re: intellectual property - for mods, I don't *think* it matters unless we are the ones making a profit. I would definitely want to get Mr Gaider's approval/blessing at the least for making a Zev mod, and maybe he could advise on any legalities to be aware of?

../../../images/forum/emoticons/w00t.png That would put me over the moon.  I'd even chip in.
Perhaps we could pay him in flaming panties? (Sorry EJ, I couldn't resist.  I still think you should email him that. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png)

Seriously though, if we could convince him to do it, there shouldn't be all that many lines. 

Edited because I haven't been on the forum in too long and forgot to fix the quote things.

Finances are a little tight right now but I would chip in some too.   Also, if all else fails, the son of a very good friend of mine is in Hollywood trying to be an actor - so far he's doing better on the production end but I could tap him for some possible voice actors.

Count me in! Will raid the piggy bank if need be!

[TanithAeyrs]

Viva la France wrote...

For the Zevran fans

Haven't seen this one yet.  I haven't started any male warden playthroughs and the dialog is different if Leliana is jealous when you are a female warden.  Thanks for sharing.