8061 réponses à ce sujet

[Minaleth]

@sialater: excellent draft of super sad ending. Please don't throw stones at me, but I admit I like this version better. I personally feel it's more in character for both Zevran and Alistair then the resolution in your canon fic (which is okay somewhat, but I don't really buy it, sorry). *hides somewhere under the rock*

Edit: uh oh, okay... a picture:

go check roosters comics it's getting interesting :3

Modifié par Minaleth, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:21 .

[Sialater]

ejoslin wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Yeah, I got that with Moira. And then gave him a gift, got him back up to love and didn't talk to either of them again (accidentally -- I REALLY didn't mean to do that, I just wanted to finish the game) other than to tell Al not to dump her at Landsmeet so I got the mistress ending with Zev giving her all the 'love' dialogues except the earring. I haven't gotten this bug to repeat, if, in fact, I didn't imagine the whole thing.

Oh, no, you missed the best part of the romance if it went THAT way.  Where he declares his feelings (it's a slightly later conversation -- and perhaps a second offer of the earring if you turned it down the first time which can be taken as a proposal).  The first time I heard that, I was so completely blown away.  I cried, seriously, I was THAT amazed.  I've been a Zevran fangirl ever since.

I know.  But Moira needs both of them.  Zevran gets my city elf.

[Sialater]

Minaleth wrote...

@sialater: excellent draft of super sad ending. Please don't throw stones at me, but I admit I like this version better. I personally feel it's more in character for both Zevran and Alistair then the resolution in your canon fic (which is okay somewhat, but I don't really buy it, sorry). *hides somewhere under the rock*

Edit: uh oh, okay... a picture:

go check roosters comics it's getting interesting :3

Stick around, they haven't got their issues ironed out yet....

[Sarah1281]

In his dialog, if you try to keep both Zev and Ali, he will say something along the lines of "I have been many things in my lifetime -- a killer, a thief, a lover, but never a cheat." (don't have an exact quote, but that's the gist of it).

Which is strange because didn't he mention having slept with married women before? Or does he mean that he doesn't want there to be feelings involved when he's in a relationship with someone who is already involved with somebody?

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

In his dialog, if you try to keep both Zev and Ali, he will say something along the lines of "I have been many things in my lifetime -- a killer, a thief, a lover, but never a cheat." (don't have an exact quote, but that's the gist of it).

Which is strange because didn't he mention having slept with married women before? Or does he mean that he doesn't want there to be feelings involved when he's in a relationship with someone who is already involved with somebody?

There's quite a bit in that conversation that doesn't make sense.  It's not about the sex, I don't think.  It's the feelings involved.  He has no issues about having sex with the warden, provided his feelings are below adore.  He also has zero issues, none at all, staying around if the warden marries Alistair/Anora (provided Alistair is either below adore or not romanced) though he will accept a breakup at that point because he understand he may be inconvenient.

It's those two things that make me think him saying he's "not a cheat" is just not a completely honest statement.  I think it's an acknowledgement that the relationship has grown beyond casual, not that he's suddenly concerned about Alistair/Leliana/Morrigan's feelings.  He wouldn't be the one cheating, anyway.  

What I think he wants is for the relationship to be out in the open and acknowledged, and he knows full well that the other love interest would not accept that.

Edit: I also think he doesn't expect for the warden to pick him.  He doesn't think he has anything to offer the warden.  And at first, he does sound like it's very casual for him and that he doesn't care either way.  But if you question him, he cracks a bit.  There are lines like this:

Zevran: You and I have had our fun, but if this thing between you and Alistair is leading somewhere, I'll happily step aside. Complication avoided. Everyone's the happier, yes? (makes it like it's no big thing)
Warden:It would be that easy, would it?
Zevran: Oh, I don't know that "easy" is the right word. Perhaps "necessary" would be better. (trying to maintain his uncaring facade, not doing a very good job)

Jon Curry does an amazing job in that conversation, tbh.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:46 .

[ICevoL]

Sarah1281 wrote...

In his dialog, if you try to keep both Zev and Ali, he will say something along the lines of "I have been many things in my lifetime -- a killer, a thief, a lover, but never a cheat." (don't have an exact quote, but that's the gist of it).

Which is strange because didn't he mention having slept with married women before? Or does he mean that he doesn't want there to be feelings involved when he's in a relationship with someone who is already involved with somebody?

We know he slept with Isabella, but I can't recall the conversation well enough off the top of my head whether she was married at the time of their affair.  I think so, though... *scratches head*

ejoslin -- can you confirm?


Edited, because ejoslin said it better than I did LOL

Modifié par ICevoL, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[ejoslin]

Isabela was married when Zevran was sleeping with her -- he was sleeping with her to get close to her husband. As soon as he killed him, she never saw him again.

[Kaioku]

ejoslin wrote...



Yeh, I have a few theories about why Zevran didn't get a DLC, and why the ending of the romance was changed in Awakening... Most have to do with a very vocal audience who cannot stand the thought of two men having a loving, healthy, lasting relationship.

Because, you know, I think they're targeting an audience who would rather play as a darkspawn and kill their old companions rather than play a DLC about a gay elf :/

I'm speaking as a heterosexual woman here. And I could be off base.  But, hmmm, I could be dead on right too.

One thing that has me worried about DA2. EA would like to have a game that people play a couple of times -- good enough to get good ratings, and then move on and buy a new game. DAO, really, many people just play over and over and over. This is NOT good from EA's perspective.

I'm sure DA2 will be good, even with no Zevran in it (and I doubt he'll even get a mention anywhere). But I probably won't want to replay it as much as I've replayed DAO.

Oh, am I ranting again? Sowwy!

You gotta be kidding, ejoslin - you really think this is the last we've heard of Zev?  I mean, you make a good point, but...

[Sarah1281]

If that's the last we've seen of the Warden then it is probably also the last we've seen of Zevran. Unless we ever go to Antiva and his default is there.

[ejoslin]

Kaioku wrote...
You gotta be kidding, ejoslin - you really think this is the last we've heard of Zev?  I mean, you make a good point, but...

I hope I'm wrong, Kaioku.  But we didn't even rate a cutscene in the DLCs that happened in the future, and the few mentions of Zevran were, well, not that positive.  You get, IIRC, in awakening:

Oghren: He may go all Zevran on you.

and, ummm...

To Nathaniel:  Some of my best friends have tried to kill me.  

It would have been very easy to make two lines trigger there.  That one for a warden who had him at friendly, and a different one for a warden in love, maybe something like, "Hah, that's how I met the one I love."  But better!

Well, we did get a letter which turned out to be a codex entry and very easy to not see.  And, ummmm, oh, an Epilogue that had us chasing after him some time in the future.

Yeh, I honestly don't see him being included.  I was hoping for at least a mention of the leader of the crows and the hero of Ferelden, but I doubt that will happen.

[Kaioku]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If that's the last we've seen of the Warden then it is probably also the last we've seen of Zevran. Unless we ever go to Antiva and his default is there.

Well, I'm not expecting him in DAII, I want a DLC. Or will there be none of those in the future, either?

ejoslin wrote...

Kaioku wrote...
You gotta be kidding, ejoslin - you really think this is the last we've heard of Zev?  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie] I mean, you make a good point, but... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

I
hope I'm wrong, Kaioku.  But we didn't even rate a cutscene in the DLCs
that happened in the future, and the few mentions of Zevran were, well,
not that positive.  You get, IIRC, in awakening:

Oghren: He may go all Zevran on you.

and, ummm...

To Nathaniel:  Some of my best friends have tried to kill me.  

It
would have been very easy to make two lines trigger there.  That one
for a warden who had him at friendly, and a different one for a warden
in love, maybe something like, "Hah, that's how I met the one I love."
 But better!

Well, we did get a letter which turned out to be a
codex entry and very easy to not see.  And, ummmm, oh, an Epilogue that
had us chasing after him some time in the future.

Yeh, I honestly
don't see him being included.  I was hoping for at least a mention of
the leader of the crows and the hero of Ferelden, but I doubt that will
happen.

Your reality is making me saaaad. :<
Meh. Sucks, but... yeah, I know. Still, I'm gonna check the main page once in a while, just to see if maybe the developers had too much time and money on their hands.

Modifié par Kaioku, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Something I noticed is that the game almost throws Alistair at female PCs.

Literally every convo has a line to start his romance!



Its hard cause I hit a trigger three times so far. I may just have to tell him off, or just not talk to him.

That being said all Zevran has to do is "hhhmmmm?" at my mage and she squees.

[Sarah1281]

Well, I'm not expecting him in DAII, I want a DLC. Or will there be none of those in the future, either?

I think WH was the last one.

Something I noticed is that the game almost throws Alistair at female PCs.

Is that trying to force a PC/Alistair romance or is that showing just how eager Alistair is to fall in love? Of course, if he's not encouraged then he won't be desperate about it but he still really wants to and so he jumps at the slightest comments like mentioning that he's attractive. That's part of what gives me hope for Alistair/Anora. At some point she'll figure this out and may even do something about it.

[Giggles_Manically]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, I'm not expecting him in DAII, I want a DLC. Or will there be none of those in the future, either?

I think WH was the last one.

Something I noticed is that the game almost throws Alistair at female PCs.

Is that trying to force a PC/Alistair romance or is that showing just how eager Alistair is to fall in love? Of course, if he's not encouraged then he won't be desperate about it but he still really wants to and so he jumps at the slightest comments like mentioning that he's attractive. That's part of what gives me hope for Alistair/Anora. At some point she'll figure this out and may even do something about it.

I just find it wierd over how many times he outright flirts when not in a romance, or how many triggers there are.

[Kaioku]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Well, I'm not expecting him in DAII, I want a DLC. Or will there be none of those in the future, either?

I think WH was the last one.
 

I'm gonna go to bed.

[ICevoL]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Something I noticed is that the game almost throws Alistair at female PCs.
Literally every convo has a line to start his romance!

Its hard cause I hit a trigger three times so far. I may just have to tell him off, or just not talk to him.
That being said all Zevran has to do is "hhhmmmm?" at my mage and she squees.

Have you given him his mother's amulet yet?  Holy crap... a female PC's choices there are either (1) activate romance or (2) be rude/insensative. One would think the devs/writers could have given the f!Warden an option to be friendly when giving it to him without having him fall at your feet in undying adoration *snerk*

[Sarah1281]

I don't think the 'Sorry, did you say something' response was rude/insensitive. It was more joking than anything else and he takes it as such.

[ejoslin]

I think that only Morrigan and Alistair have public kisses in the vanilla game shows that a bit more attention was paid to them, though Zevran and Leliana get to be jealous I suppose :/

Zevran, though, does have almost as many romance starters as Alistair, though. One thing, though; Zevran I think is a better character to have as a friend than Alistair (I think Zevran's friendship lines and such are better). Zevran's romance strikes me as a bit more, I don't know, real I suppose. It takes a long time for it to build into love. He does trust a lover sooner than he trusts a friend (which makes a lot of sense), which I like a lot as well.  Alistair, friend or lover, reveals all things about himself at the same triggers.  Not so with Zevran.

Though this comment will bring me wrath, I'll put it this way -- Alistair as a lover let me down. Things beyond his control of course, and mainly everything he did that let me down were the fault of my warden. But still, he let my warden down. He was a fairy-tale lover, doing and saying all the right things, being adoring, but when it came down to it, my first playthrough (and I do NOT believe any warden romancing him would harden him without metagaming), his all-too-human side came out. Sacrifices had to be made, and the Warden's feelings, well, yeh; it would be too difficult for him to wait until the blight was ended, so better to crush her just before battle.

Zevran as a lover, however, uplifted me. While he needed to heal, all he needed was someone who cared for him. Friend or lover, he lays out all who he is, the good, and the ugly.  There is nothing selfish about him as a lover -- he's the one who wants to cheer the warden up, to be there for him/her as much as the warden is there for him. And while he doesn't want to fall in love, he is completely honest about that. And when he does fall in love, he wants nothing more (and nothing less) than a commitment, to know there's a future for the two of them.

Ooooh, long winded today!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[Corker]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Corker wrote...

She would not bring the taint back to her people.

I don't quite understand this. She has to know that the taint isn't contagious in a GW so is it about now wanting the darkspawn that can sense her to follow her back to them and put the Dalish in danger?

This is my own invention, Sarah.  I've grafted a set of clean/unclean taboos onto the Dalish, and being tainted is definitely unclean.  It's not about danger; it's about spiritual impurity.

Heck of it is, she could lie by omission (as she does by necessity when doing Nature of the Beast), since it's not widely known that Wardens are tainted.  Buuuut she's a good Dalish girl and isn't going to.

[Corker]

payroo wrote...
@corker: Vashti is an interesting one, to be sure. I like seeing the clash between her and Zevran's ideas of 'freedom.' I'm hoping she comes round to at least see it from Zev's point of view (since he did try the Dalish life, while she has very little idea as to where he's coming from.)
 

What, you mean conscripted involuntarily into an elite paramilitary order that requires severance with all past ties, devotion to the group, many sacrifices, keeping dreadful dark secrets and ultraviolence in the course of duty?  I think she's got that part down, actually.

If you mean the living with humans thing... I have my doubts.  I think Shianni will make a good impression, and she'll perhaps realize that city elves have clans, too, and it's as hard for one of them to leave their clan and find the Dalish (who aren't necessarily welcoming) as it is for a Dalish to abandon their clan in exile.  That still doesn't quite cover Zevran, who seems to want to try to 'pass' in the upper eschelons of human society.  At best, she might not be quite so judgemental about it, realizing that if you *can* pass, it's a huge advantage and really hard to turn down.  But on a philosophical level, she's never going to think it's the right decison.

Modifié par Corker, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[payroo]

@Kaioku: I love the fanart; I really do! The colors are lovely and Zev's expression is to die for.

as for Zev's fate in BW games... I think I actually almost prefer for them to say no more as to the Warden/Zev's future (because the more they say, the more they screw it up, dammit). A little nod to the fact that the Hero of Ferelden is in love a former Antivan Crow would make me happy beyond belief, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyway, I would prefer not to think about it; it makes me sad...
(replays Origins obsessively)

@corker: Ah yes, I meant the latter. :PI can see a proud Dalish learning to live with flat-ears and repressing the ELVENHAN!evangelicism, though never being really happy about that.

Modifié par payroo, 21 septembre 2010 - 11:37 .

[Tellervo]

You know, Ejo is right... better business wise for the company to make games that make people go, "Huh, that was fun, let's move on to the next," than games that have replay value. I also think she's right about why Zev got the shaft on DLC... I mean, really, Darkspawn Chronicles was higher on their list of priorities? Yeah, already aiming for a different audience, even then.

[ejoslin]

I really hope I end up being wrong. I do agree with you, payroo, that it probably is better that they just leave Zevran alone as, well, yeh, they have taken some weird and really contradictory directions with him in just the little he has been mentioned.

But I have to admit a bit of envy. If there is a passing mention, I will be far happier than I probably should be.

Edit: What I think is very strange is how with WH, they can't even keep their own timeline straight.  I'm not sure what's up with that.  You have the promo page saying it's a year after the arch demon died.  On the map, if you did awakening, it says it's two years after the mother died.  However, if you scroll over denerim, it says its been years since the archdemon was destroyed.  They can't even keep it straight on their own map.

Hmmmm, even if they have mentions in there, it wouldn't surprise me if they got bugged and never worked properly.  *sigh* It's been confirmed there will be Alistair mentions.  We can only hope!

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 septembre 2010 - 02:55 .

[TanithAeyrs]

@Kaioku: The expressions on both Zevran's and the Warden's faces are so well done, you can see there is far more to the exchance than just the lesson in poisons.



@everyone: love the prompt responses so far. Have been poking at my own writing all day, trying to behave myself and not comment until next Sunday when all the entries are in, but I surrender. Will say something on the individual entries when this week's contest closes, but they are all excellent.



@minaleth: didn't mean to be depressing, but the fact that Zev does have his limits is one of my favorite things about him. He is still his own man, even after he falls in love. Would welcome funny entries to, if you think of one.

[Corker]

TanithAeyrs wrote...

Would welcome funny entries to, if you think of one.

Not an entry.  Potentially not funny bit it's what came to mind.


InSufficient Cause
(Or, The Difference +100 Love Makes)

The Warden was intoxicated.

Not intoxicating, which was normal, but drunk.  And angry.  She had killed many old companions, and one old friend, to secure Prince Bhelen's throne, but now the prince was insisting that they go into the Deep Roads to find the Paragon Branka.  The Paragon had been missing for two years and was presumed dead; it sounded to Zevran like the prince wanted rid of their meddling, now that he'd had their help. 

It apparently sounded that way to Lorelai, as well.  She'd stormed out of the Diamond Quarter, kicked open the door to the wretched hole that passed for a tavern in Orzammar, and started tossing back imported meads.  That was not so bad, in and of itself.  The problems started when she staggered out of the tavern.

Alistair went ahead, politely clearing a path to keep people out of her way.  Zevran and the great slobbering mabari were tasked with keeping her on the path, preferrably without her realizing she was being herded.  She cursed and shouted insults at the few dwarves still up and about in the Commons, so Alistair bent their path towards to two great doors leading to the Hall of Heroes.

It was a good choice.  Aside from some guards and a few beggars, it was empty this time of... well, whatever passed for night in Orzammar.  Lorelai wove her way down one side of the hall, stopping briefly to tell each Paragon to sod off, get mauled by deepstalkers, or do obscene things to a bronto.  But she fell silent when contemplating the newest statue to Paragon Branka.

He was surprised when she poked him in the arm.  "Do it."

He raised an eyebrow at her.  "What, with the dog watching?"

"No, I mean..." Her eyes narrowed as she tried to put a memory into words.  "You told Shale... that you'd... throw your sh!t at a statue."

"Did I?  Ah, yes, 'if given sufficient cause,' I believe I said."

"Well?  I want you to do it!  That good enough for you?" she demanded belligerently.

"What, to defile the representation of Orzammar's only (allegedly) living Paragon while negotiating its throne?  Mmm, sorry to disappoint, my dear, but that will cost more than your desire to see it."

"What?  I ask one damn thing of you, and..."

"For such a job, I would charge no less than... six thousand andris. Up front."

"You're gonna charge me?"

He stepped closer and slowly ran a finger up along her neck and then down her jaw.  "I'll let you work it off in trade, mm?"

Her jaw jutted out and she squinted again.  "You're tryin' to distract me."

"Mm," he agreed, before bending down to kiss her, hard enough to make an impression through the alcoholic fog.  "Is it working?" he asked, lips by her ear.

She turned to gesture rudely at Branka's statue.  "You get off easy this time," she warned it.  "But I'll be back."

Zevran turned her back towards the Commons and they swayed off together; Alistair finished apologizing to the guards for their little scene.  The dog watched his mistress go, then snuffled the statue.  Panting happily, he lifted his leg to mark it for her.