39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

LadyDamodred wrote...

It's not just necessarily Alistair's view. In truth, despite what he says about them having to do terrible things, he doesn't know that as a real truth yet. He knows Wardens are supposed to fight darkspawn and end Blights. He knows some of their lore. He knows about this physical changes. But he doesn't truly know how terrible those terrible things can be. I mean, he's willing to abandon Redcliffe if the Warden determines it's the best course for fighting the Blight, in addition to all sorts of other things.

He doesn't lose approval?

[MageTarot]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I think that Alistair is a good warden in that he's an extremely capable fighter and killer of Darkspawn. But the fact remains that the Wardens are not a chivalric order - whatever it takes to defeat the Blight means whatever it takes, not "whatever is morally upstanding."

Absolutely this. If you're looking for the moral high ground in fighting a Blight if you're a Warden, you might not find it. The game gives us some absolutely terrible options in order to round up allies to combat the Darkspawn. We can wipe out mages in order to get the backing of templars, approve the sacrifcing of dwarven souls to create an army of golems, and destroy the only possible cure of lycanthropy in order to use their savagery for our advantage.

 With his sense of justice and good, Alistair signifies the Grey Wardens at their most idealistic. However, Riordan mentioned at the Landsmeet that even a criminal can become a Grey Warden. Food for thought...

[Collider]

MageTarot wrote...
 With his sense of justice and good, Alistair signifies the Grey Wardens at their most idealistic. However, Riordan mentioned at the Landsmeet that even a criminal can become a Grey Warden. Food for thought...

I wish they had shown this side to the grey wardens more. There's Daveth, sure, but at his core he's still a decent person.

[Glorfindel709]

Idealism is fine and dandy in times of peace, but during a Blight you do what best helps you finish the Blight. Personally, the only reason I ever side against Branka is because I dont want to lose Shale, Orzammar is the final stage for me before the Landsmeet *shrugs*

If stopping the Darkspawn means blood magic, I accept it. If stopping the Blight means that I have to set aside my personal morals to get the job done, I'll do it without hesitation. "In peace, vigilance. In war, victory. In death, sacrifice." That's the oath every warden swears to uphold, and whether it's your physical death or the death of your soul or your innocence or naivety, you make the sacrifice. Because, surprisingly, Wynne actually got something right. You devote yourself entirely to fighting the Blight and protecting all of Thedas, give up name, title, preconceptions, prejudices, and former life to fight the Darkspawn. That is your mandate, and Alistair has never been able to accept it.

They do do it though. I just finished a DN Origin in which I killed Trian, I told Duncan straight up and he still insisted in me joining the Wardens. Someone who just killed Fratricide and showed no remorse about it was brought into the Wardens with open arms. I understand that because you're the PC it has to happen, but he doesnt even make a show of asking if you're remorseful or anything.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .

[Eber]

Collider wrote...
He doesn't lose approval?

You lose a bit, 5 points.

Alistair: I'm sorry my lord [Teagan]. You have to understand... as Grey Wardens the dark spawn are our primary concern

Modifié par Eber, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:42 .

[LadyDamodred]

Whether or not he loses approval, he's still willing to do it. It's not a line in the sand for him like the Loghain issue is.

If you've read The Calling, then you know Riordan's comment about accepting murderers is really very true.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:39 .

[inquartata02]

I think Alistair was a young Grey Warden. He had a lot to learn, but a lot of potential.

[MageTarot]

Collider wrote...

I wish they had shown this side to the grey wardens more. There's Daveth, sure, but at his core he's still a decent person.

If you're talking about the darker aspect of being a Grey Warden I think it wasn't shown because that is where your character comes in. You can do unspeakable things throughout the game but (for story purposes) it all can be justified with an Archdemon corpse lying on the roof of Fort Drakon.

[Collider]

MageTarot wrote...

Collider wrote...

I wish they had shown this side to the grey wardens more. There's Daveth, sure, but at his core he's still a decent person.

If you're talking about the darker aspect of being a Grey Warden I think it wasn't shown because that is where your character comes in. You can do unspeakable things throughout the game but (for story purposes) it all can be justified with an Archdemon corpse lying on the roof of Fort Drakon.

It could have been shown by the player interacting with more wardens - wardens with more ambiguous morality. One of the wardens that die in the joining could also be like this.

[Eber]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Whether or not he loses approval, he's still willing to do it. It's not a line in the sand for him like the Loghain issue is.

If you've read The Calling, then you know Riordan's comment about accepting murderers is really very true.

Let's not forget the dwarf commoner - another murderer, the dwarf noble - a suspected murderer (sometimes guilty) and the city elf - usually a murderer.

The dwarf noble origin probably exemplifies this principle about accepting anyone the best because when you meet up with Duncan in the deep roads the other Wardens are a bit suspicious and nosy but Duncan is all like: Let's not delve into this, you are good with a sword no?

He couldn't care less if you killed your brother.

Modifié par Eber, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:57 .

[RagingCyclone]

This may be a stretch for some, but my take in being grey warden was not a matter of good or evil in regards to whatever it takes to end a blight, but being adaptable to using what you have available and seeing what can be an advantage or disadvantage to ending a blight. I think the reason the wardens will take anyone is that even thieves and murderers have an adaptability to them. So in that case is Alistair a good warden? To an extent he is. But he does have his limits which is apparent in the case with Loghain. However, he is also a new warden and thrown into a situation he is completely unprepared for so he does have that adaptability to move forward. Had he been more seasoned when the Loghain issue came about I think his reaction would have been much different.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 06 janvier 2011 - 03:46 .

[MageTarot]

Collider wrote...

It could have been shown by the player interacting with more wardens - wardens with more ambiguous morality. One of the wardens that die in the joining could also be like this.

Ah, ok. Yes, it would have been interesting to interact with other Wardens but I'm guessing it wasn't done because of time constraints. The writers wanted to do a lot more but that would have made the game longer than they would have preferred (personally,  I wouldn't have had no problem with that!)

 Besides, by wiping out all the Grey Wardens in Ferelden (save your character, Riordan and Alistair) I'm guessing the writers wanted to show how dire the situation had become.

[Glorfindel709]

On a side note, informing your roommate that his girlfriends profile picture on facebook looks like a Genlock is not a good way to make him happy.

[Giggles_Manically]

NO ReaLLY?

[Glorfindel709]

It was completely justified, btw

[Zjarcal]

I think Alistair is a poor warden but then again, so is my PC. My PC didn't care one bit about being a warden, she only became one because Duncan pulled her away from her dying parents. Obviously she wasn't going to let the Blight devour the land so she fights against it, but any "warden oaths" you're supposed to hold are meaningless to her.

So honestly, Alistair not being a "good" warden is not a flaw in my view. Well, it is a flaw in the sense that his idealism sometimes prevents him from seeing the greater picture (Drunkenstair), but it's still a trait I actually admire in him.

Random note, I'm growing  a bit more fond of Alistair lately... perhaps that means I'm no longer too much of an outsider here! 

[tuppence95]

Zjarcal wrote...

I think Alistair is a poor warden but then again, so is my PC. My PC didn't care one bit about being a warden, she only became one because Duncan pulled her away from her dying parents. Obviously she wasn't going to let the Blight devour the land so she fights against it, but any "warden oaths" you're supposed to hold are meaningless to her.

So honestly, Alistair not being a "good" warden is not a flaw in my view. Well, it is a flaw in the sense that his idealism sometimes prevents him from seeing the greater picture (Drunkenstair), but it's still a trait I actually admire in him.

Random note, I'm growing  a bit more fond of Alistair lately... perhaps that means I'm no longer too much of an outsider here! 

Oh no!  Zjarcal is growing a bit fonder of Alistair, and I am having erotic dreams about Loghain.  The world is coming to an end!

And Zjarcal, you are not an outsider here!

[Reika]

Lol Glor!

What others said about Alistair is true, and in all honesty the Wardens I've played probably aren't good Wardens either in that they had their own lines they wouldn't cross. Though I suppose in the end if you deal with the darkspawn threat and end the Blight, you're a good Warden.

The only way Alistair wasn't a good warden if you spare Loghain. And my own personal bias (not because Alistair hates the man) agrees with him.

Edit: I'm amused that Zjarcal and I had similar positions.

Modifié par Reika, 06 janvier 2011 - 04:24 .

[Skyl4rk]

tuppence95 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I think Alistair is a poor warden but then again, so is my PC. My PC didn't care one bit about being a warden, she only became one because Duncan pulled her away from her dying parents. Obviously she wasn't going to let the Blight devour the land so she fights against it, but any "warden oaths" you're supposed to hold are meaningless to her.

So honestly, Alistair not being a "good" warden is not a flaw in my view. Well, it is a flaw in the sense that his idealism sometimes prevents him from seeing the greater picture (Drunkenstair), but it's still a trait I actually admire in him.

Random note, I'm growing  a bit more fond of Alistair lately... perhaps that means I'm no longer too much of an outsider here! 

Oh no!  Zjarcal is growing a bit fonder of Alistair, and I am having erotic dreams about Loghain.  The world is coming to an end!

And Zjarcal, you are not an outsider here!

Are we approaching another opposite day fiasco?

And tupp, you're not the only one.  It's been happening to me as well ever since I saw Schratty's hot Loghain morph.  *shakes fist*

[Reika]

Eh, it was still Loghain, I don't get the appeal.

[Giggles_Manically]

Probably because he is voiced by Simon T.



Steve V is good but he is no Simon T.

[Yankee23]

Skyl4rk wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

I think Alistair is a poor warden but then again, so is my PC. My PC didn't care one bit about being a warden, she only became one because Duncan pulled her away from her dying parents. Obviously she wasn't going to let the Blight devour the land so she fights against it, but any "warden oaths" you're supposed to hold are meaningless to her.

So honestly, Alistair not being a "good" warden is not a flaw in my view. Well, it is a flaw in the sense that his idealism sometimes prevents him from seeing the greater picture (Drunkenstair), but it's still a trait I actually admire in him.

Random note, I'm growing  a bit more fond of Alistair lately... perhaps that means I'm no longer too much of an outsider here! 

Oh no!  Zjarcal is growing a bit fonder of Alistair, and I am having erotic dreams about Loghain.  The world is coming to an end!

And Zjarcal, you are not an outsider here!

Are we approaching another opposite day fiasco?

And tupp, you're not the only one.  It's been happening to me as well ever since I saw Schratty's hot Loghain morph.  *shakes fist*

Zjarcal is fonder of Alistair, Tupp and Sky are having erotic Loghain dreams...alright, that's it...I'll be in my basement with a flashlight and some canned food. Let me know when the apocalypse is over.

[Zjarcal]

Skyl4rk wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Oh no!  Zjarcal is growing a bit fonder of Alistair, and I am having erotic dreams about Loghain.  The world is coming to an end!

And Zjarcal, you are not an outsider here!

Are we approaching another opposite day fiasco? 

And tupp, you're not the only one.  It's been happening to me as well ever since I saw Schratty's hot Loghain morph.  *shakes fist*

Careful you two. Addai became a Loghain fangirl after having a Loghain dream... 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 06 janvier 2011 - 04:31 .

[Glorfindel709]

Erotic dreams about Loghain O.o



*follows Yankee* I've brought Liquor, medical supplies, and rudimentary weapons to use for when the world becomes Fallout-like

[Giggles_Manically]

<grabs popcorn to watch the end times>

... Look out for flaming dogs from heaven!



Oh Sheogorath....