39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

@errant_knight:

My blood mage? She's not an evil warden if that's what you're asking. She gained lots of approval from Alistair in Redcliffe for helping out everyone but then he got mad at her for letting Jowan flee Redcliffe. But since she decided to save both Connor and Isolde (only PC who does that since she feels a bit guilty for letting Jowan, who could've helped in the situation, run away) he was happy with her.

There were a few moments were he was mad at her, like sparing Zevran and recruiting Shale (especially since she wasn't particularly nice to him when telling him to shut up), but on the whole they got along fine.

By the time the game was over his approval was around 50+ I think, he was at warm. His mother's pendant and Duncan's Shield helped a lot of course. Still, even without those he would've been above warm.

At the end he even told her that it had been an honor to fight at her side! My warden's reaction was:

"Really? An honor to fight alongside a blood mage? Never thought I would've hear you say those words. Thank you kindly."

EDIT: Oh crap, getting a top in this thread means I have to post a pic, right? But I have almost no pics of Alistar... will have to dig deep.

Okay, I posted this on the old thread, but it's a pretty cool shot of Alistair if you ask me, double teaming an Ogre with Zevran.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:31 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

Good thing we can all have different views on the situation!

I can picture my blood mage spending hours upon hours studying his research and listening to his stories. And for the record, if the only way to control the taint was to kill more wardens, I'd simply go on a recruiting spree of criminals sentenced to death. If they're gonna die they might as well die for a good cause.

Yay for Avernus! 

I concur. My rogue may not be able to practise magic, but he recognises a potentially valuable ressource when he sees it. Killing Avernus just sounds like a waste to me.  
If the Power of the Blood and outliving the taint are the results of his experiments, I say they are well worth it.

Well, it depends on how you feel about evil, I suppose.

[inclemency]

tuppence95 wrote...





I really don't think that was appropriate behavior for a future father-in-law.

omg, wynne in underworld armour, I think my eyes are bleeding, I so want to un-see that...lol!
Just kidding with you, tuppence, I think.  It is a bit disturbing, though 

Modifié par inclemency, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:28 .

[Sarah1281]

errant_knight wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

Good thing we can all have different views on the situation!

I can picture my blood mage spending hours upon hours studying his research and listening to his stories. And for the record, if the only way to control the taint was to kill more wardens, I'd simply go on a recruiting spree of criminals sentenced to death. If they're gonna die they might as well die for a good cause.

Yay for Avernus! 

I concur. My rogue may not be able to practise magic, but he recognises a potentially valuable ressource when he sees it. Killing Avernus just sounds like a waste to me.  
If the Power of the Blood and outliving the taint are the results of his experiments, I say they are well worth it.

Well, it depends on how you feel about evil, I suppose.

And also how you define it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
Well, it depends on how you feel about evil, I suppose.

I can't feel about something I don't believe exists (as a reality in and of itself, that is)  

But I guess that's off topic. And I need to go to my first day at uni.
See you guys later!

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:31 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

My blood mage? She's not an evil warden if that's what you're asking. She gained lots of approval from Alistair in Redcliffe for helping out everyone but then he got mad at her for letting Jowan flee Redcliffe. But since she decided to save both Connor and Isolde (only PC who does that since she feels a bit guilty for letting Jowan, who could've helped in the situation, run away) he was happy with her.

There were a few moments were he was mad at her, like sparing Zevran and recruiting Shale (especially since she wasn't particularly nice to him when telling him to shut up), but on the whole they got along fine.

By the time the game was over his approval was around 50+ I think, he was at warm. His mother's pendant and Duncan's Shield helped a lot of course. Still, even without those he would've been above warm.

At the end he even told her that it had been an honor to fight at her side! My warden's reaction was:

"Really? An honor to fight alongside a blood mage? Never thought I would've hear you say those words. Thank you kindly."

EDIT: Oh crap, getting a top in this thread means I have to post a pic, right? But I have almost no pics of Alistar... will have to dig deep.

heh, that surprises me greatly, but that blood mage did help end the blight, so I guess he's feeling fairly warm and fuzzy.

[tuppence95]

inclemency wrote...

omg, wynne in underworld armour, I think my eyes are bleeding, I so want to un-see that...lol!
Just kidding with you, tuppence, I think.  It is a bit disturbing, though 

I had a nice pack of mage robes, Wynne was wearing a demure white one, but I ended up uninstalling it.  When I logged back on with this character recently to finish playing him, Wynne was nude.  Underworld was much more tasteful, I thought.  

[CalJones]

tuppence95 wrote...

I really don't think that was appropriate behavior for a future father-in-law.

How the hell did you get him to do that?!! He never does that to me! *sob*

[Morwen Eledhwen]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

Good thing we can all have different views on the situation!

I can picture my blood mage spending hours upon hours studying his research and listening to his stories. And for the record, if the only way to control the taint was to kill more wardens, I'd simply go on a recruiting spree of criminals sentenced to death. If they're gonna die they might as well die for a good cause.

Yay for Avernus! 

I concur. My rogue may not be able to practise magic, but he recognises a potentially valuable ressource when he sees it. Killing Avernus just sounds like a waste to me.  
If the Power of the Blood and outliving the taint are the results of his experiments, I say they are well worth it.

My DC rogue destroyed Avernus's vial but then spared Avernus as long as he stayed in Warden's Keep and continued his research humanely. My CE rogue wasn't a fan of the research methods but figured, well, the vial is here whether I like the story of its origins or not; might as well make use of it so those poor bastards didn't suffer in vain. Then she also spared Avernus with the same intent as my DC. None of my companions had any reaction in either case, though I never brought Wynne with me.

[phaonica]

CalJones wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

I really don't think that was appropriate behavior for a future father-in-law.

How the hell did you get him to do that?!! He never does that to me! *sob*

I think that's Charsen's gatekisses mod.

[Khalara]

As far as the sparing Avernus thing, I have in my FF Alistair ripping my Warden up and down for it. (much like if you kill Connor or Isolde)  It's not unforgivable, but still yell worthy.  I felt there should have been more reaction out of him for sparing Avernus, in my opinion.

Wow, didn't know I was gonna start a debate with this...

confused and crosseyed

[errant_knight]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

Good thing we can all have different views on the situation!

I can picture my blood mage spending hours upon hours studying his research and listening to his stories. And for the record, if the only way to control the taint was to kill more wardens, I'd simply go on a recruiting spree of criminals sentenced to death. If they're gonna die they might as well die for a good cause.

Yay for Avernus! 

I concur. My rogue may not be able to practise magic, but he recognises a potentially valuable ressource when he sees it. Killing Avernus just sounds like a waste to me.  
If the Power of the Blood and outliving the taint are the results of his experiments, I say they are well worth it.

My DC rogue destroyed Avernus's vial but then spared Avernus as long as he stayed in Warden's Keep and continued his research humanely. My CE rogue wasn't a fan of the research methods but figured, well, the vial is here whether I like the story of its origins or not; might as well make use of it so those poor bastards didn't suffer in vain. Then she also spared Avernus with the same intent as my DC. None of my companions had any reaction in either case, though I never brought Wynne with me.

There are a few places where there's no companion reaction where there really should have been, both positive and negative. I suppose that's due to the need to balance all the characters to make a wide range of outcomes possible, rather than ruling them out too early in the game. And of course, they can't let Alistair get to the point where he would leave, logically, and if he reacted to too many things, it would seem difficult to believe if he didn't.

And there's the fact that it will let you do things that are OOC in the name of gameplay, like making Wynne a blood mage, although I can't think of any of those that pertain to Alistair, except maybe the reused dialogue at Landsmeet, where the PC chooses, that makes Alistair backtrack to unhardened for a moment. I'm going to have to give a male character a go, so I can see Alistair behave in a more consistent manner there.

[Zjarcal]

@errant_knight:

I agree. There are many moments where some characters should've freaked out (as well as others where they should've reacted more positively).

Sparing Avernus should've brought some rage from Alistair. Making Wynne a blood mage shouldn't have been allowed. Morrigan should've freaked out for helping Brother Burkel in Orzammar. Oghren should've given you a huge approval boost for completing his quest, yet he doesn't.

On the whole I suppose it doesn't affect things too much, but it does break immersion a bit.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[errant_knight]

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

I agree. There are many moments where some characters should've freaked out (as well as others where they should've reacted more positively).

Sparing Avernus should've brought some rage from Alistair. Making Wynne a blood mage shouldn't have been allowed. Morrigan should've freaked out for helping Brother Burkel in Orzammar. Oghren should've given you a huge approval boost for completing his quest, yet he doesn't.

On the whole I suppose it doesn't affect things too much, but it does break immersion a bit.

I agree entirely on all those points! If I was better a math, I'd mod the things in the main game that I can (maybe one day for the DLC), but I just don't have the statistical skills to rebalance the game after adding large approval differences.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

I was also surprised when my friend, who was playing as a Mage, went into the Fade after Connor's Desire Demon and emerged with Blood Magic knowledge, and Alistair had nothing to say about it --either about his being a blood mage or about how this knowledge was acquired.

[errant_knight]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

I was also surprised when my friend, who was playing as a Mage, went into the Fade after Connor's Desire Demon and emerged with Blood Magic knowledge, and Alistair had nothing to say about it --either about his being a blood mage or about how this knowledge was acquired.

Good point--that's another one that makes no sense. It should at least have blunted his approval for saving Conner, and I have difficulty believing that Alistair would have nothing to say about your trafficking with demons in the fade and choosing to become a blood mage.

[tuppence95]

phaonica wrote...

CalJones wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

I really don't think that was appropriate behavior for a future father-in-law.

How the hell did you get him to do that?!! He never does that to me! *sob*

I think that's Charsen's gatekisses mod.

Yes, I just hadn't expected a kiss option from Loghain.  My Cousland male had almost no approval from him.  Sure, he spared him and was keeping his daughter on the throne and was marrying her.  But he didn't expect that!  

[Addai]

errant_knight wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

@errant_knight:

My blood mage? She's not an evil warden if that's what you're asking. She gained lots of approval from Alistair in Redcliffe for helping out everyone but then he got mad at her for letting Jowan flee Redcliffe. But since she decided to save both Connor and Isolde (only PC who does that since she feels a bit guilty for letting Jowan, who could've helped in the situation, run away) he was happy with her.

There were a few moments were he was mad at her, like sparing Zevran and recruiting Shale (especially since she wasn't particularly nice to him when telling him to shut up), but on the whole they got along fine.

By the time the game was over his approval was around 50+ I think, he was at warm. His mother's pendant and Duncan's Shield helped a lot of course. Still, even without those he would've been above warm.

At the end he even told her that it had been an honor to fight at her side! My warden's reaction was:

"Really? An honor to fight alongside a blood mage? Never thought I would've hear you say those words. Thank you kindly."

EDIT: Oh crap, getting a top in this thread means I have to post a pic, right? But I have almost no pics of Alistar... will have to dig deep.

heh, that surprises me greatly, but that blood mage did help end the blight, so I guess he's feeling fairly warm and fuzzy.

None of my blood mages have been "evil".  I don't see blood magic as in and of itself evil.  Naturally my very pious Andrastian PCs disagree, though all my Wardens come around to various degrees of pragmatic disposition to these things.  They're soldiers, not priestesses.  But the RP latitude on such things is great.

[tuppence95]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

I was also surprised when my friend, who was playing as a Mage, went into the Fade after Connor's Desire Demon and emerged with Blood Magic knowledge, and Alistair had nothing to say about it --either about his being a blood mage or about how this knowledge was acquired.

Alistair never said anything when my mage returned from the fade with blood magic knowledge.  But then, I'm not sure how he would know unless he saw my mage casting a spell.  Wynne however knew soon as my mage used it.  In that playthrough, I did the circle quests after Redcliffe.  She confronted him about the spells he was using that she didn't recognize, and she did it right in front of Greagoir.  Surprisingly, Irving covered for her by saying the wardens had records of magic that the Circle didn't have access to.

[Addai]

tuppence95 wrote...

Yes, I just hadn't expected a kiss option from Loghain.  My Cousland male had almost no approval from him.  Sure, he spared him and was keeping his daughter on the throne and was marrying her.  But he didn't expect that!  

LOL Was that a bug?  Or does the kiss always trigger with high approval for Loghain, since there's not an In Love flag for him I imagine?

I seriously don't see Loghain doing that, no matter who the Warden is.  He does not strike me as a PDA kinda guy.

And, ewww. 

[errant_knight]

tuppence95 wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

I was also surprised when my friend, who was playing as a Mage, went into the Fade after Connor's Desire Demon and emerged with Blood Magic knowledge, and Alistair had nothing to say about it --either about his being a blood mage or about how this knowledge was acquired.

Alistair never said anything when my mage returned from the fade with blood magic knowledge.  But then, I'm not sure how he would know unless he saw my mage casting a spell.  Wynne however knew soon as my mage used it.  In that playthrough, I did the circle quests after Redcliffe.  She confronted him about the spells he was using that she didn't recognize, and she did it right in front of Greagoir.  Surprisingly, Irving covered for her by saying the wardens had records of magic that the Circle didn't have access to.

I guess that makes sense, as long as Alistair never saw you using blood magic.

[Addai]

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

My DC rogue destroyed Avernus's vial but then spared Avernus as long as he stayed in Warden's Keep and continued his research humanely. My CE rogue wasn't a fan of the research methods but figured, well, the vial is here whether I like the story of its origins or not; might as well make use of it so those poor bastards didn't suffer in vain. Then she also spared Avernus with the same intent as my DC. None of my companions had any reaction in either case, though I never brought Wynne with me.

My Lady Aeducan is the one using Power of Blood.  I figure she has no Chantry qualms about blood magic and a dwarven warrior is likely to be more pragmatic than most.

The only Wardens I have who take a hard line on blood magic are my HNF, more out of upbringing than conviction, and my Surana, who is a fairly devout Andrastian.  I don't remember if they killed Avernus or not.  I spare him more often than not, just as I spare the blood mage in the Tower.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

errant_knight wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

I was also surprised when my friend, who was playing as a Mage, went into the Fade after Connor's Desire Demon and emerged with Blood Magic knowledge, and Alistair had nothing to say about it --either about his being a blood mage or about how this knowledge was acquired.

Alistair never said anything when my mage returned from the fade with blood magic knowledge.  But then, I'm not sure how he would know unless he saw my mage casting a spell.  Wynne however knew soon as my mage used it.  In that playthrough, I did the circle quests after Redcliffe.  She confronted him about the spells he was using that she didn't recognize, and she did it right in front of Greagoir.  Surprisingly, Irving covered for her by saying the wardens had records of magic that the Circle didn't have access to.

I guess that makes sense, as long as Alistair never saw you using blood magic.

Well, yes, but I would assume that this would happen sooner or later, or else either you never take Alistair with you or you don't use blood magic very much. I was waiting for the first time my friend and his Blood Mage to use blood magic in front of Alistair, and the screeching and geschrei-ing that would ensue, and it never did. I was quite disappointed. <_<

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

tuppence95 wrote...

Yes, I just hadn't expected a kiss option from Loghain.  My Cousland male had almost no approval from him.  Sure, he spared him and was keeping his daughter on the throne and was marrying her.  But he didn't expect that!  

LOL Was that a bug?  Or does the kiss always trigger with high approval for Loghain, since there's not an In Love flag for him I imagine?

I seriously don't see Loghain doing that, no matter who the Warden is.  He does not strike me as a PDA kinda guy.

And, ewww. 

I don't think it's a bug. I think it's an option regardless of flags or approval or anything, just for RP purposes.

Modifié par phaonica, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:28 .

[errant_knight]

Addai67 wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...

My DC rogue destroyed Avernus's vial but then spared Avernus as long as he stayed in Warden's Keep and continued his research humanely. My CE rogue wasn't a fan of the research methods but figured, well, the vial is here whether I like the story of its origins or not; might as well make use of it so those poor bastards didn't suffer in vain. Then she also spared Avernus with the same intent as my DC. None of my companions had any reaction in either case, though I never brought Wynne with me.

My Lady Aeducan is the one using Power of Blood.  I figure she has no Chantry qualms about blood magic and a dwarven warrior is likely to be more pragmatic than most.

The only Wardens I have who take a hard line on blood magic are my HNF, more out of upbringing than conviction, and my Surana, who is a fairly devout Andrastian.  I don't remember if they killed Avernus or not.  I spare him more often than not, just as I spare the blood mage in the Tower.

Heh, I never spare the blood mage in the tower, either. Jowan is the only one that I really believe wants to make up for what he did, so he gets to go to the fade to save Conner. He also doesn't shy away from taking responsibility. Even when I suggested that he leave, he reufused, preferring to make things right. He's a screw up, but not a bad person, and he doesn't lack for courage. The Maleficar seems almost certain to use blood magic to escape, even after she's seen what happened in the tower and makes excuses too easily for me.