39010 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

He's never gone anywhere near Isabela in my games. Plus, it's not quite the same to go off and have sex with someone other than the person you love than for the both of you to decide to experiment together.

I don't see the difference. He is still experiencing sexual pleasure by Isabela, at least, touching him (I bet she did a lot more). 

And if my love told me to experiment this with her, I'll tell her to experiment sleeping on the couch for a few months.

I think Alistair would do the same.  Thats why I call BS on the Isabella thing.   And to add to the OOC, he says "rats" when you tell her she can't borrow him from time to time - WTF.

Edit - Top

Modifié par rak72, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:28 .

[Zjarcal]

rak72 wrote...

The whole Isabella thing was a load of crap.

Why? It's up to the player to decide if they want to do this. Nothing was forced on anyone.

If anything, it proves that Alistair can have a wild side.

EDIT: I see. People assume the threesome is OOC for Alistair. Hmm, can't say I agree if we're talking about hardened Alistair. But I won't argue with anyone here.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yankee23 wrote...
I'm talking more mental that physical. He obviously can perform...doesn't mean he liked doing it.

He was evidently pleased afterwards. He didn't display any signs of being uncomfortable with the idea. shyness and reluctance at first perhaps, but then accepts. 

errant_knight wrote...
Well,
I personally think that whole interlude was fan service and verged on
OCC, but within the context of it, I think he does it to please the
warden. He wouldn't be the first person to do something like that for a
lover. As far as I know, he won't do it if he isn't in love. Doesn't
mean that he isn't intrigued. He's a gentleman, not a eunach, but if it
was about Isabella, or sex, he wouldn't need to be involved with the
warden to go for it.

And he is sleeping with Morrigan for the Warden too. What's the difference?

I see no indication that he wasn't personally satisfied and pleased that he had done it. And not for the Warden (and I cannot understand how any woman can think taht way to begin with). 

I am not saying he would cheat on the Warden if he is in love and do it with someone else. No. That does not mean that he can't have sex with someone he doesn't have feelings for, and enjoy it, both mentally and physically.  

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Hardened, yeah, he will try out a threesome. But only if he has already had sex with the Warden. he won't do if he's still a virgin.

Because I'd imagine that a threesome would be way too overwhelming for a first time lol

That too.

But to get Alistair to agree to the threesome, he must be hardened, which is a pretty fundemental change in his personality. Unhardened, he backs away and scolds you about boundaries.

Needless to say, in a serious playthrough that I've not reloaded for laughs, I have never had Alistair do the threesome, or conducted it while in a relationship with him. I would have similar reactions, which is one reason I like him unhardened.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Hardened, yeah, he will try out a threesome. But only if he has already had sex with the Warden. he won't do if he's still a virgin.

Because I'd imagine that a threesome would be way too overwhelming for a first time lol

And considering one of the ladies would be Isabela... that'd be a terribly overwhelming experience! 

[KnightofPhoenix]

rak72 wrote...
I think Alistair would do the same.  Thats why I call BS on the Isabella thing.   And to add to the OOC, he says "rats" when you tell her she can't borrow him from time to time - WTF.

Alistair is a video game character only present in that game. We cannot refer to any outside source to define his character, what we have in the game IS his character and it's not OOC.

 So evidently no, Alistair would not do what I would do.

Morrigan on the otherhand does

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
But to get Alistair to agree to the threesome, he must be hardened, which is a pretty fundemental change in his personality. Unhardened, he backs away and scolds you about boundaries.

Yes, I know. That's why I do not see the fuss about hardening. Backbone with no maturity accompanying it is not desirable and I see little maturity in him even when hardened (and the Landmseet is the epitom of this).

However, I know that Errant always hardens him, so it went without saying that I meant hardened Alistair.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:35 .

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...
I'm talking more mental that physical. He obviously can perform...doesn't mean he liked doing it.

He was evidently pleased afterwards. He didn't display any signs of being uncomfortable with the idea. shyness and reluctance at first perhaps, but then accepts. 

errant_knight wrote...
Well,
I personally think that whole interlude was fan service and verged on
OCC, but within the context of it, I think he does it to please the
warden. He wouldn't be the first person to do something like that for a
lover. As far as I know, he won't do it if he isn't in love. Doesn't
mean that he isn't intrigued. He's a gentleman, not a eunach, but if it
was about Isabella, or sex, he wouldn't need to be involved with the
warden to go for it.

And he is sleeping with Morrigan for the Warden too. What's the difference?

I see no indication that he wasn't personally satisfied and pleased that he had done it. And not for the Warden (and I cannot understand how any woman can think taht way to begin with). 

I am not saying he would cheat on the Warden if he is in love and do it with someone else. No. That does not mean that he can't have sex with someone he doesn't have feelings for, and enjoy it, both mentally and physically.  

There's a big difference between Isabella and Morrigan. He doesn't hate Isabella. Yes, he has sex (if you choose to ask him to do so) with Isabella, but he's not all that displeased about it. He's VERY displeased with the idea of sleeping with Morrigan. And yes, he does that for the warden, too. He's very resistant. Physically, there was obviously no problem, and I'm not one of those who thinks he was scarred for life by the experience, or even for a week, but that doesn't equate to enjoying the experience mentally or emotionally. I think the thing is, you can't imagine anyone NOT wanting to be with Morrigan, KoP. You're a bit biased on that.

[rak72]

Rage - How exactly did Zevran know about Wynn's sleeping attire?

@KoP - I agree with Errant - fan service

[Yankee23]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Ok, been here at work, and I'll catch up on the whole Morrigan and Alistair and Yankee clawing her eyes out later. Thanks LadyD for beating me to the punch with that little tidbit. lol

Great fill Rage, very funny!

[Zjarcal]

So if a character does something the player doesn't like, it's fan service?

[Melca36]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Ok, been here at work, and I'll catch up on the whole Morrigan and Alistair and Yankee clawing her eyes out later. Thanks LadyD for beating me to the punch with that little tidbit. lol

In the meantime, an attempt to fill Melca's prompt:

LOVED IT!! 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, I know. That's why I do not see the fuss about hardening. Backbone with no maturity accompanying it is not desirable and I see little maturity in him at all even when hardened (and the Landmseet is the epitom of this).

However, I know that Errant always hardens him, so it went without saying that I meant hardened Alistair.

Ahh, I see.

People harden Alistair usually because they want to make him king, and if you're a fan girl, you cannot keep your relationship with him if he's king, unless you're a noble marrying him. It would be like losing Morrigan in an incedent that is perfectly avoidable.

Of course, that does go back to your arguements and such. I prefer not making him king, so hardening is a non-issue for me unless a playthrough demands it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...
There's a big difference between Isabella and Morrigan. He doesn't hate Isabella. Yes, he has sex (if you choose to ask him to do so) with Isabella, but he's not all that displeased about it. He's VERY displeased with the idea of sleeping with Morrigan.

That's not what you said initially, in the post I was responding to. You simply said Alsitair can't have sex with someone he doesn't have feelings for. 

errant_knight wrote...
And yes, he does that for the warden, too. He's very resistant. Physically, there was obviously no problem, and I'm not one of those who thinks he was scarred for life by the experience, or even for a week, but that doesn't equate to enjoying the experience mentally or emotionally.

He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.
I sincerily doubt he was just there doing it like a chore.

And if I can be bothered, I'd even try to imagine the details. I can't.

errant_knight wrote...
I think the thing is, you can't imagine anyone NOT wanting to be with Morrigan, KoP. You're a bit biased on that.

Not at all, I am very glad that Alistair does not want Morrigan. Other than for the fact that he is not worthy enough to even want her, everything I respect Morrigan for is opposed to Alistair's beliefs / thoughts / mantra.  So no problem from me at all. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

So if a character does something the player doesn't like, it's fan service?

Seems like it.
I don't see how it's a fan service really.

They made Morrigan absolutely reject the idea. Why not Alistair?

[rak72]

Zjarcal wrote...

So if a character does something the player doesn't like, it's fan service?

No, I just makes no sense for his character.  Mister - you're the first, I want you to be the last, I want to be in love before there is any nookie.  And the whole "rats" comment is suggesting that he is dissapointed that the warden didn't give him a free cheating pass whenever Izzyb's ship pulls into port.  I think if he were hardened he should be less easily influenced by the warden and would say no.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.

Not really. Just because he's not scarred doesn't mean he "enjoyed it". Going through the motions would work fine in that situation. It's not a painful situation, but it's not a pleasant one either.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

So if a character does something the player doesn't like, it's fan service?

Seems like it.
I don't see how it's a fan service really.

They made Morrigan absolutely reject the idea. Why not Alistair?

Because there is no way to fundementally change Morrigan's personality.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.

Not really. Just because he's not scarred doesn't mean he "enjoyed it". Going through the motions would work fine in that situation. It's not a painful situation, but it's not a pleasant one either.

I remember him showing that he liked it.
Perhaps not in the  same way as Zevran, or Leliana.

Wait, I am watchign the scene now.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Because there is no way to fundementally change Morrigan's personality.

If the idea was fan service, they would have made Morrigan accept it by default.
And seeing how the majority of gamers are drooling idiot boys (who rant about Morrigan refusing to have sex, not understanding what's it about), if they wanted to make fan service, they would have made Morrigan want it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:48 .

[Yankee23]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.

Perhaps if we were allowed to talk to him about it afterwards we would see some regret/distaste, etc...

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.

Not really. Just because he's not scarred doesn't mean he "enjoyed it". Going through the motions would work fine in that situation. It's not a painful situation, but it's not a pleasant one either.

I remember him showing that he liked it.
Perhaps not in the  same way as Zevran, or Leliana.

Wait, I am watchign the scene now.

OOPS!!! Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Dark Ritual... sorry!

Oh yes, he does enjoy the threesome physically and mentally, no doubt about it.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Because there is no way to fundementally change Morrigan's personality.

If the idea was fan service, they would have made Morrigan accept it by default.
And seeing how the majority of gamers are drooling idiot boys (who rant about Morrigan refusing to have sex, not understanding what's it about), if they wanted to make fan service, they would have made Morrigan want it.

That would call into question Morrigan's sexuality, since another female is involved, and Morrigan would have to be intrigued by it. With Alistair, you have two females, probably mutually going at it as well, so his sexuality remains strictly females. No conflict there.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yankee23 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

He's not very resistant. Slightly relunctant at best.
And I see nothing at all about him having any emotional or mental distate after doing it. And seeing how Alistair never hides his feelings (and something you girls love him for), that's evidence that he enjoyed it mentally as well.

Perhaps if we were allowed to talk to him about it afterwards we would see some regret/distaste, etc...

Really?

The only thing he said afterwards is that they worry about the darkspawn.
I see nothing that implies that he is emotionally hurt or dissatisfied. And I find it hard to believe that he was mentally neutral and indifferent (and that's almost twice as bad).

As for convincing him.
He says "I am a weak weak man. So I guess I'll have to play along".

Now you can literally believe that he is a weakling that can be bossed around (ironic that he shows more backbone when unhardened). Or that it's more likely an excuse / joke. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:55 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
Because there is no way to fundementally change Morrigan's personality.

If the idea was fan service, they would have made Morrigan accept it by default.
And seeing how the majority of gamers are drooling idiot boys (who rant about Morrigan refusing to have sex, not understanding what's it about), if they wanted to make fan service, they would have made Morrigan want it.

Excellent point.

Really, the demographic that would've enjoyed the idea of the threesome the most is the crowd that usually goes after Morrigan or Leliana (just to be clear, I'm not saying that EVERYONE who romances Morrigan or Leliana is part of that demographic).

With Alistair's fans, it's probably the opposite, as evidenced by the reactions in this thread. So I really fail to see how it's fan service.