39010 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Jon Jern wrote...

But doesn't it state in the epilogue that an independent Alistair hardened on the throne surprises many people on his ruling?

I recall it saying that he surprises people by how much he is willing to learn.
Nothing implies that his rule is great, or on par with Anora.

Most certainly not Bhelen....ok that made me chuckle a bit. Alistair and Bhelen. Ha the two shouldn't be in the same sentence.

Yes, because Alistair is not an  evil , murdering, sociopath.
Arg, top again

Modifié par rak72, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:38 .

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...
And that is where we disagree, as I said. I think her motives change, that it becomes more about saving the person she cares about that her own goals, though I'm not denying they're still there.

The way she prashed it implies otherwise. She adds it as a side note (to the chagrin of most Morrimancers, I don't mind).

 Admittedly, I've spent less time looking through her dialogue, but that's not how it comes across in the cutscenes.  I suppose it's open to interpretation.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
She definately starts to want it more, but I see no indication that her main reason is to save the Warden. She wants that OGB and that's her primary motive. If she is rejected, even when romanced, she leaves, which is counter intuitive to what you are saying.

It's not counter-intuitive.  Many people, when they see someone going down a path that will ultimately lead to their destruction, will cut them out of their lives and have nothing to do with them.  To do otherwise invites too much pain, even though the leaving hurts as well.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And yes, as much as I love her, I really don't expect or want her to change that radically, as to alter her priorities, for the sake of love.

Her priorities aren't altered.  Her reasons behind them are.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
When Arcturus followed her to the mirror, his primary motive was mainly pragmatic, love alone didn't cut it.

I find that very sad. 

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jon Jern wrote...

Seeing as how Alistair being king seems to be the choice most players made (See : Awakening without imports) I don't think Bioware will stir **** up by making the most popular choice one of the worst ones.

That's what they did with Harrowmont, God bless them.

[Jon Jern_]

Wait, what happened with Harrowmont?

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Most certainly not Bhelen....ok that made me chuckle a bit. Alistair and Bhelen. Ha the two shouldn't be in the same sentence.

But they use the same hairstyle! 

And so does Cammen...

[Jon Jern_]

Speaking of Cammen,



I am slightly amused.

[Glorfindel709]

Question....



How long was the time frame between Ostagar and Denerim? And how would that translate realistically (I mean, crossing a country the size of Ferelden seems like it would take quite a long time, not to mention what must be weeks int he Deep Roads and transition time between you getting turned into a pincushion and being fully healed in the Wilds..)

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Admittedly, I've spent less time looking through her dialogue, but that's not how it comes across in the cutscenes.  I suppose it's open to interpretation.

Then I would see no reason why most Morrimancers would complain about the DR. All of them said that Morrigan didn't seem to give a crap and I didn't mind.

So I am failing to see the angle you are taking in this.
Not trying to use Morrimancer opinion as expert opinion, but really, they dissected the whole thing second by second...

It's not counter-intuitive.  Many people, when they see someone going down a path that will ultimately lead to their destruction, will cut them out of their lives and have nothing to do with them.  To do otherwise invites too much pain, even though the leaving hurts as well.

And so you are saying that Morrigan left, because she can't bear to see the Warden die, and not because she was denied what she wanted?

Her priorities aren't altered.  Her reasons behind them are.

The scale of "the change" and threat from Flemeth that she is talking about, and the power that she says she has to get to face them, do not imply that her main reasons changed at all. That was always in her mind, the love she had for the Warden, while a factor, was marginal.

There are far more important things than love and she says in WH that love is indeed a weakness.

I guess you can have that interpretation. But as a huge Morrigan fan, I will safely tell you that if what you are saying is true, my respect for her will drop a great deal.

It was always a passion of equals. I wouldn't expect myself to change radically for her, nor do I expect her to do the same for me.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jon Jern wrote...

Wait, what happened with Harrowmont?

Epic fail.

That's what happened.

[Jon Jern_]

@ KnightofPhoenix

Well, I knew that. Is it the default decision or something, because I'm a little confused right now.



@Glor 63 days 2 hours 3 minutes 2 seconds.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jon Jern wrote...

@ KnightofPhoenix
Well, I knew that. Is it the default decision or something, because I'm a little confused right now.
 

They don't say what's the default choice (because they are lazy and because it didn't have any significance in Awakening). But Harrowmont was most certainly the popular choice.

[Sarah1281]

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
When Arcturus followed her to the mirror, his primary motive was mainly pragmatic, love alone didn't cut it.

I find that very sad. 

Why is it sad? He was King and had responsibilites in Ferelden to think about. IRL if you loved someone and they left supposedly forever and then you happened across them and they wanted you to go away with them forever for real this time then if you have other responsibilities (say, a child that isn't invited) then you can't very well just drop everything to go chasing after your ex no matter how much you might love them. I know it's a game, of course, but if he goes with her anyway why is it a problem that he weighed the options and decided that that was the best choice instead of walking away from literally everything else because he loved her? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
When Arcturus followed her to the mirror, his primary motive was mainly pragmatic, love alone didn't cut it.

I find that very sad. 

Why is it sad? He was King and had responsibilites in Ferelden to think about. IRL if you loved someone and they left supposedly forever and then you happened across them and they wanted you to go away with them forever for real this time then if you have other responsibilities (say, a child that isn't invited) then you can't very well just drop everything to go chasing after your ex no matter how much you might love them. I know it's a game, of course, but if he goes with her anyway why is it a problem that he weighed the options and decided that that was the best choice instead of walking away from literally everything else because he loved her? 

Because it's "too rational".

If Arcturus didn't know that Anora can handle herself on her own, his inclination to leave would have dropped substantially. He might have still left though. The desire to be an active part of the "change" and not simply a reciever waiting for external forces to shape his life, plus the duty and opportunity of raising a child that happens to carry the spirit of a god, might have pushed him to go regardless

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:57 .

[Glorfindel709]

@Jon Jern - that was really really specific...

[Jon Jern_]

Oh and hey KnightOfPhoenix thanks on the information on who Leliana was modeled after. Using the power of google I hoarded as much pictures as I could find. I am not disappointed with what I gathered.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 21 janvier 2011 - 04:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jon Jern wrote...

Oh and hey KnightOfPhoenix thanks on the information on who Leliana was modeled after. Using the power of google I hoarded as much pictures as I could find. I am not disappointed with what I gathered.

You're welcome...

[Jon Jern_]

She is literally amazing, bro.

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Then I would see no reason why most Morrimancers would complain about the DR. All of them said that Morrigan didn't seem to give a crap and I didn't mind.

So I am failing to see the angle you are taking in this.
Not trying to use Morrimancer opinion as expert opinion, but really, they dissected the whole thing second by second...

Then please ignore, since I don't know any other way to explain it.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
And so you are saying that Morrigan left, because she can't bear to see the Warden die, and not because she was denied what she wanted?

Uh...that's not what I said.  You said my thoughts were counter-intuitive, and I was pointing out why they're not and why they would fit.  Nor am I saying that's the only reason she leaves, but it is one.  Does she not say she won't stay and watch you die?

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The scale of "the change" and threat from Flemeth that she is talking about, and the power that she says she has to get to face them, do not imply that her main reasons changed at all. That was always in her mind, the love she had for the Warden, while a factor, was marginal.

Then I truly fail to see why people love Morrigan.  It's awfully hard to love someone who doesn't really love you back.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
There are far more important things than love and she says in WH that love is indeed a weakness.

 
That is what I find incredibly sad.  *shrugs*  I find very few things are worth doing when you don't have anyone you love or who loves you.  I suspect that this is now getting into personal areas, and will let it drop.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I guess you can have that interpretation. But as a huge Morrigan fan, I will safely tell you that if what you are saying is true, my respect for her will drop a great deal.

It was always a passion of equals. I wouldn't expect myself to change radically for her, nor do I expect her to do the same for me.

To me, that's simply lust, then.  Not passion.  Perhaps I see a difference where none exists.  Again, probably wandering too close to personal areas.

*carefully notes KoP will hate a future Morrigan fic she does*

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:03 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...
Uh...that's not what I said.  You said my thoughts were counter-intuitive, and I was pointint out why they're not and why they would fit.  Nor am I saying that's the only reason she leaves, but it is one.  Does she not say she won't stay and watch you die?

I didnt' say it wasn't a reason. You said it's the main reason.
I am disputing this.

Then I truly fail to see why people love Morrigan.  It's awfully hard to love someone who doesn't really love you back.

That depends entirely on how you define love.
The kind of love you are talking about, for me, is weakness.

That is what I find incredibly sad.  *shrugs*  I find very few things are worth doing when you don't have anyone you love or who loves you.  I suspect that this is now getting into personal areas, and will let it drop.

Even when it's about change of the world on a massive scale and forces beyond the ordinary?

No thank you, I prefer Morrigan who has her priorities straight.

To me, that's simply lust, then.  Not passion.  Perhaps I see a difference where none exists.  Again, probably wandering too close to personal areas.

Lust implies only sexuality involved, which was not the case. It was much more. But not enough to alter any of us dramatically.

And yes, it's getting personal and I don't mind (if it's about me, if you mind getting eprsonal about your  life, I udnerstand).
I recently broke of with someone I genuinely thought I was starting to love and I have no doubt she did as well.
But we came to the conclusion that we had differences that will make us incompatible, and we both knew neither of us will change. And both of us did not expect the other to change, because we knew how stubborn we are. 

Did I feel sad? Yes. Hurt? Possibly initially. But I strongly respected her for what she did and I respected even more when she said that she didn't expect me to change for her, that's not the Ayman she knew. The fact that she knew me and had no illusions to the contrary, was something I valued. Vice versa. 

Because yes, some things are really more important than love. And I think it was more than lust, even though she was drool worthy.

And please don't take me using that personal example as a way to end the discussion, and certainly not to take pity at me (I will find that insulting).

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:19 .

[Addai]

LadyDamodred wrote...

To me, that's simply lust, then.  Not passion.  Perhaps I see a difference where none exists.  Again, probably wandering too close to personal areas.

*carefully notes KoP will hate a future Morrigan fic she does*

If I may...  I think that we don't yet understand what the OGB is or why she wants it.  I see Morrigan taking this on as a duty.  Witch Hunt confirms that there is a great change coming, that the child must prepare, and that Flemeth is the real enemy, implying some existential threat that she is trying to avert.  Whether we end up agreeing with her methods and intentions, that's why she is focused on the OGB even when she is friends or in love with the Warden.  It is just harder for her, more complicated, if emotion is involved.

@KoP, she leaves if rejected for much the same reason anyone would, I suspect- she takes the rejection personally.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
@KoP, she leaves if rejected for much the same reason anyone would, I suspect- she takes the rejection personally.

Possibly.

Though when romanced and rejected, her tone implies sadness and dissapointment, rather than bitterness and resentment. I think it's more likely that she now has no strong reason to risk her life, so she leaves. Not necessarily because she is a survivalist only, but because she might want to prepare for whatever it is she is preparing for, that could be more important than the blight. 

Like she said "What I want...is of no importance now".

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:15 .

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
When Arcturus followed her to the mirror, his primary motive was mainly pragmatic, love alone didn't cut it.

I find that very sad. 

Why is it sad?

Is it really hard to see why someone would find it sad? Even I find it a bit sad really. For some people, love is above everything.

Granted, that doesn't apply to Arcturus (or Morrigan... or KoP), but one can still find it a bit... sad.

To each their own as usual.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:18 .

[Sarah1281]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
When Arcturus followed her to the mirror, his primary motive was mainly pragmatic, love alone didn't cut it.

I find that very sad. 

Why is it sad?

Is it really hard to see why someone would find it sad? Even I find it a bit sad really. For some people, love is above everything.

Granted, that doesn't apply to Arcturus (or Morrigan... or KoP), but one can still find it a bit... sad.

To each their own as usual.

Yes it is because i really don't understand that viewpoint. It seems like one of those things that's hard to explain, though.

[KnightofPhoenix]

For me, the love that is purest is the one which doesn't compromise who a person is, nor expects the other to do so.

But that's just me.

[Zjarcal]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Yes it is because i really don't understand that viewpoint. It seems like one of those things that's hard to explain, though.

I suppose there's little point in trying to explain it. But yes, love can be above everything for some people. And when I say love I don't necessarily mean a romantic partner, it can be your family, your fiends, your pets... etc.

But again, to each their own.