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[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
He'll even tell you that if you do ask him about leading armies....that he can advise you but that these are your armies, that you have raised out of nothing and that even though he will do anything in his power to support you as a general, you must lead these armies.

To be fair, that's after you spare him. Which is a commitment.

It depends on how good of a judge of character the Warden is (not saying those who don't trust Loghain are stupid).
There is a certain gambit here, just like in everything. But I do not think that the risk is so high as to make the choice irrational. There are ways to make sure he doesn't turn on you. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 03 février 2011 - 03:52 .

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
He'll even tell you that if you do ask him about leading armies....that he can advise you but that these are your armies, that you have raised out of nothing and that even though he will do anything in his power to support you as a general, you must lead these armies.

To be fair, that's after you spare him. Which is a commitment.

It depends on how good of a judge of character the Warden is (not saying those who don't trust Loghain are stupid).
There is a certain gambit here, just like in everything. But I do not think that the risk is so high as to make the choice irrational. There are ways to make sure he doesn't turn on you. 

True that, KOP. No matter what I choose at the LM (And you know what I usually do), I hate the way Bioware handled this. Was this supposed to be like Virmire in ME? Because where Virmire really tore me apart, the LM decision made me want to tear my hair out. Utterly sloppy writing and bad game mechanics.

Modifié par Persephone, 03 février 2011 - 03:56 .

[Ryzaki]

Offtopic: I'm not sure if it's just me but Sarah your posts always give me the vibe that you think I'm somewhat slow.



Granted I *am* somewhat slow but meh...maybe I'm being soft.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...
True that, KOP. No matter what I choose at the LM (And you know what I usually do), I hate the way Bioware handled this. Was this supposed to be like Virmire in ME? Because where Virmire really tore me apart, the LM decision made me want to tear my hair out. Utterly sloppy writing and bad game mechanics.

Even Virmire was meeh. From  miltiary standpoint, you cannot afford to save the one who is supposed to guard the nuke. Whom you should save is the one attacking the tower and leave the one defending the nuke to do so until death.

Notice how when you save the person assigned on the nuke, the other companion at the tower somehow teleports to the nuke and defends it. BS.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Persephone wrote...
True that, KOP. No matter what I choose at the LM (And you know what I usually do), I hate the way Bioware handled this. Was this supposed to be like Virmire in ME? Because where Virmire really tore me apart, the LM decision made me want to tear my hair out. Utterly sloppy writing and bad game mechanics.

Even Virmire was meeh. From  miltiary standpoint, you cannot afford to save the one who is supposed to guard the nuke. Whom you should save is the one attacking the tower and leave the one defending the nuke to do so until death.

Notice how when you save the person assigned on the nuke, the other companion at the tower somehow teleports to the nuke and defends it. BS.

That's Bioware for ya! :happy:

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Even Virmire was meeh. From  miltiary standpoint, you cannot afford to save the one who is supposed to guard the nuke. Whom you should save is the one attacking the tower and leave the one defending the nuke to do so until death.

Notice how when you save the person assigned on the nuke, the other companion at the tower somehow teleports to the nuke and defends it. BS.

What are you talking about? 

That didn't happen in my game. I always save Kaidan who let's the nuke go off. And I get the scene where you slug them over your shoulder and hightail it outta there. I've always gotten that scene without fail. (The one time I went to the AA tower I got the scene where Ash died protecting the bomb).

I figure that thing just needed to be properly set. The second it was set properly I went there to make sure Geth weren't completely swarming. After clearning most of the geth there would be too few to disengage the nuke while I got the hell out of dodge.

It makes more sense to me to go *to* the nuke then leave it undefended with just Kaidan and a few soldiers that aren't Shep Sue. You have no guarantee they won't be completely swarmed and unable to defend the nuke. Heck they tell you geth are swarming them when you make your choice.

*we should probably take this to a ME thread*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 février 2011 - 04:04 .

[Reika]

Persephone wrote...

True that, KOP. No matter what I choose at the LM (And you know what I usually do), I hate the way Bioware handled this. Was this supposed to be like Virmire in ME? Because where Virmire really tore me apart, the LM decision made me want to tear my hair out. Utterly sloppy writing and bad game mechanics.

I've wondered that myself, but in all honesty I had absolutely no emotional investment into Loghain. I didn't even know about half the endings of the Landsmeet until I came to the boards.


And just because.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
What are you talking about? 

That didn't happen in my game. I always save Kaidan who let's the nuke go off. And I get the scene where you slug them over your shoulder and hightail it outta there. I've always gotten that scene without fail. (The one time I went to the AA tower I got the scene where Ash died protecting the bomb).

I figure that thing just needed to be properly set. The second it was set properly I went there to make sure Geth weren't completely swarming. After clearning most of the geth there would be too few to disengage the nuke while I got the hell out of dodge.

It makes more sense to me to go *to* the nuke then leave it undefended with just Kaidan and a few soldiers that aren't Shep Sue. You have no guarantee they won't be completely swarmed and unable to defend the nuke. Heck they tell you geth are swarming them when you make your choice.

*we should probably take this to a ME thread*

You don't get that cutscene?
I remember it showign that the person who is supposed to be at the tower, somehow appears next to the nuke, wounded, defending it from swarming Geth.

But it's true, I forgot that both positions were being attacked. In which case, going to the nuke is what should be done, I apologize.

Still doesn't explain how the one who is supposed to be at the tower, appears next to the nuke in the cutscene before it explodes. Or is my memory compeltely wrong? 

[Persephone]

Reika wrote...

Persephone wrote...

True that, KOP. No matter what I choose at the LM (And you know what I usually do), I hate the way Bioware handled this. Was this supposed to be like Virmire in ME? Because where Virmire really tore me apart, the LM decision made me want to tear my hair out. Utterly sloppy writing and bad game mechanics.

I've wondered that myself, but in all honesty I had absolutely no emotional investment into Loghain.

Fair enough. I didn't even know he could be recruited in my first playthrough as I let Alistair duel him and he took matters into his own hands. (Never mind that the execution scene made me sick even then)

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
You don't get that cutscene?
I remember it showign that the person who is supposed to be at the tower, somehow appears next to the nuke, wounded, defending it from swarming Geth.

But it's true, I forgot that both positions were being attacked. In which case, going to the nuke is what should be done, I apologize.

Still doesn't explain how the one who is supposed to be at the tower, appears next to the nuke in the cutscene before it explodes. Or is my memory compeltely wrong? 

Only time I got the defending nuke scene was the one time I went to the AA tower. Everyother time my Shep was at the bomb site slinnging Kaidan over his shoulder and getting out of there.

Sounds like a really weird bug. I just played ME1 3 days ago so my mem's pretty fresh.

Only if you leave them behind (to guilt trip you I suppose where you get the warm fuzzy saving them scene for saving them).

And yeah both positions are being swarmed. That's why you have to decide on or the other. If only the bomb was swarmed the person at the AA tower might've been able to retreat to your position or somewhere you could've picked them up.

It's either your memory or a bug. You should hope its the former.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 février 2011 - 04:12 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
Only time I got the defending nuke scene was the one time I went to the AA tower.

Sounds like a really weird bug. I just played ME1 3 days ago so my mem's pretty fresh.

Only if you leave them behind (to guilt trip you I suppose where you get the warm fuzzy saving them scene for saving them).

It's either your memory or a bug. You should hope its the former.

Huh. so what cutscene do you get if you save the nuke? Just an explosion?

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Only time I got the defending nuke scene was the one time I went to the AA tower.

Sounds like a really weird bug. I just played ME1 3 days ago so my mem's pretty fresh.

Only if you leave them behind (to guilt trip you I suppose where you get the warm fuzzy saving them scene for saving them).

It's either your memory or a bug. You should hope its the former.

Huh. so what cutscene do you get if you save the nuke? Just an explosion?

You go to the person get the usual Saren cutscene after that you head over to the bomb tech talk to them they're hobbling and can't seem to walk very steady (the convo isn't significant I don't think you even hear any words) so Shep slings them over the shoulder as the Normandy lands. You go into the ship and take off without any final scene of the person at the AA tower just an explosion showing across the whole planet as you watch from orbit with a stern look on Shep's face. I'll youtube it for you if you'd like.

Edit: Ah what the hell I have a save on Virmire. I'll youtube it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 février 2011 - 04:16 .

[Reika]

Persephone wrote...

Fair enough. I didn't even know he could be recruited in my first playthrough as I let Alistair duel him and he took matters into his own hands. (Never mind that the execution scene made me sick even then)

Me neither, but I've always done the duel on my Warden mainly because she had so much blood on her hands already, might as well be the butcher who takes down the Hero of River Dane, and since she made Alistair king, best he not have that reputation.

[Thor Rand Al]

Must be Alistair snarl day, someone woke up on the wrong side of the tent I think lol

[Persephone]

Reika wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Fair enough. I didn't even know he could be recruited in my first playthrough as I let Alistair duel him and he took matters into his own hands. (Never mind that the execution scene made me sick even then)

Me neither, but I've always done the duel on my Warden mainly because she had so much blood on her hands already, might as well be the butcher who takes down the Hero of River Dane, and since she made Alistair king, best he not have that reputation.

See, I could never do that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ryzaki wrote...
You go to the person get the usual Saren cutscene after that you head over to the bomb tech talk to them they're hobbling and can't seem to walk very steady (the convo isn't significant I don't think you even hear any words) so Shep slings them over the shoulder as the Normandy lands. You go into the ship and take off without any final scene of the person at the AA tower just an explosion showing across the whole planet as you watch from orbit with a stern look on Shep's face. I'll youtube it for you if you'd like.

Edit: Ah what the hell I have a save on Virmire. I'll youtube it.

Aww thanks!

It's been years sicne I played, I must have forgotten. Bioware isn't as bad as I thought afterall!

[Maricsblade]

Just my two cents… I haven't seen all the Landsmeet options but it seems that Alistair does a really poor job of justifying his position regarding Loghain. It seems to me that if you make a bullet list of all the things Loghain has done (and maybe Alistair does this, I don't remember), there's no question that he must be killed, even if there are only two Wardens left. Loghain abandoned the battlefield, causing the death of the king and the head of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden; hired an assassin to kill the remaining Grey Wardens; had Arl Eamon poisoned; allowed a teyrn's family to be killed; took the throne from his daughter; sold elves into slavery to fund the war; and probably some others I'm forgetting. I mean, hell, if all that isn't justification enough to execute someone the second it's possible, what is? But Alistair seems (iirc) to just get whiny and insistent, and can only say while lopping off Loghain's head that "This is for Duncan." Really?!

(Edited to add a couple more baddies)

Modifié par alisgirl, 03 février 2011 - 04:23 .

[Reika]

Persephone wrote...

Reika wrote...

Me neither, but I've always done the duel on my Warden mainly because she had so much blood on her hands already, might as well be the butcher who takes down the Hero of River Dane, and since she made Alistair king, best he not have that reputation.

See, I could never do that.

Didn't mean to upset you.

[Sarah1281]

Ryzaki wrote...

Offtopic: I'm not sure if it's just me but Sarah your posts always give me the vibe that you think I'm somewhat slow.

Granted I *am* somewhat slow but meh...maybe I'm being soft.

I'm not trying to. I just often have a problem where I cannot get people online to understand what I mean. I don't know why that is as I obviously feel I'm being perfectly clear and trying to rephrase the same basic idea time after time to no avail frustrates me since I don't know how to make people understand.

[Persephone]

alisgirl wrote...

Just my two cents… I haven't seen all the Landsmeet options but it seems that Alistair does a really poor job of justifying his position regarding Loghain. It seems to me that if you make a bullet list of all the things Loghain has done (and maybe Alistair does this, I don't remember), there's no question that he must be killed, even if there are only two Wardens left. Loghain abandoned the battlefield, causing the death of the king and the head of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden; had Arl Eamon poisoned; hired an assassin to kill the remaining Grey Wardens; took the throne from his daughter; and probably some others I'm forgetting. I mean, hell, if that isn't justification enough to execute someone the second it's possible, what is? But Alistair seems (iirc) to just get whiny and insistent, and can only say while lopping off Loghain's head that "This is for Duncan." Really?!

There is no question...??? Why is it the most debated issue then, even though the game's been out for over a year? Never mind me though, my Wardens are all freaks, obviously.

[Persephone]

Reika wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Reika wrote...

Me neither, but I've always done the duel on my Warden mainly because she had so much blood on her hands already, might as well be the butcher who takes down the Hero of River Dane, and since she made Alistair king, best he not have that reputation.

See, I could never do that.

Didn't mean to upset you.

No worries, Reika. I understand the reasoning. :happy:

[HolyAvenger]

Really enjoyed the discussion on the last couple of pages people.

[Lady Mimzy]

I agree that the LM could have been done better but I think by that point maybe Bioware was worried that they were going to go over budget? But then there are other parts of the game that I would have liked another option or to say something else than what was given.



*shrugs* Okay, now I'll go back in my corner and just hmmm watch and read?

[Reika]

Persephone wrote...
No worries, Reika. I understand the reasoning. :happy:

Thanks.

[Sarah1281]

@alisgirl: The problem with that, I think, is that most of those things are things you can bring up against Loghain at the Landsmeet. What good would Alistair repeating your Landsmeet arguments did? You just said them yourself so if they didn't convince you why would Alistair saying them a few minutes later make you any more inclined to kill Loghain than you were previously?