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[Lady Jess]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

See, I don't let the Architect live. Ever. And that was before I ever picked up The Calling.

You didn't find the idea of ending the cycle of Blights enticing?

Not when the Failitecht is at the helm.

Especially when his "attempts" to stop the blights "accidently" started the blight I just had to stop with a group of rag tag merry men and women, while stopping a civil war and being traumatized by THE BROODMOTHER!!!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
Especially when his "attempts" to stop the blights "accidently" started the blight I just had to stop with a group of rag tag merry men and women, while stopping a civil war and being traumatized by THE BROODMOTHER!!!

If the Architect even had a 1% chance of succeeding in freeing the old God, vs 99% failing, it would remain justified in my eyes as it was going to happen anyways sooner or later. That's not to mention the value of trial and error.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 06:55 .

[Glorfindel709]

Actually, I disagree with you KoP. As the Architect explains it, he has his own form of the Joining Ritual that requires Grey Warden blood to free other darkspawn. When the song ends, I imagine the darkspawn will descend into madness and hopefully kill themselves out through clashes of mindless roving warbands in the Deep.

I also disagree that a 1 to 99% ratio of success-fail is acceptable. Darkspawn and Humans, Elves, Qunari, Dwarves et al cannot coexist. Ones existence demands the sacrifice of the other races in order to Breed, which the other races would never willingly allow, and poisons the surface with their blood and steps. The Anderfels and Antiva have entire swathes of land that nothing can grow or live on because of the corruption.

The Darkspawn are a cancer, to which the only answer is eradication.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 17 février 2011 - 06:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Actually, I disagree with you KoP. As the Architect explains it, he has his own form of the Joining Ritual that requires Grey Warden blood to free other darkspawn. When the song ends, I imagine the darkspawn will descend into madness and hopefully kill themselves out through clashes of mindless roving warbands in the Deep.

The joining is only necessary because the song is still present. Once the song is gone, the joining that is designed to make you immune to it, is no longer required.

I do not know for a fact, but I think it's a strong possibility. With that in mind, I prefer the darkspawn getting free gradually while being guided, rather than have them awaken in the middle of a war and go bezerk.

[Glorfindel709]

But look at what happened to the Darkspawn who went through the joining. Sure, the Arhcitect managed to have some that gained sentience, but how many more besides the Mother and the First went absolutely mad with the removal of the song. It's far more likely that when the last Archdemon is slain that the Darkspawn will go berserk and slaughter each other while some will awaken and go "Aha!" right before being brutally cut down.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

But look at what happened to the Darkspawn who went through the joining. Sure, the Arhcitect managed to have some that gained sentience, but how many more besides the Mother and the First went absolutely mad with the removal of the song. It's far more likely that when the last Archdemon is slain that the Darkspawn will go berserk and slaughter each other while some will awaken and go "Aha!" right before being brutally cut down.

Trial and error, he has a chance to perfect his joining.

And the crazed darkspawn rallied under a faction, what's to say that they will fight each other necessarily and not go on a rampage against the living while they are on the surface to begin with? The Mother  might be insane, but she is not "lolz I wana kill anything!" insane. She had a plan. A mad one, but still a plan, she wanted to die and thwart the Architect. 

What's to say that those insane darkspawn don't start blaming the surface world for the death of the Song and continue the massacre with renewed vigor?

It's a risk either way, but I weighted them differently.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[Glorfindel709]

For me, it always comes back to the Corruption and Broodmothers. I just dont see how the species could ever coexist with the rest of the races of Thedas. if anything, I expect that the destruction of the final Archdemon will lead to a final attempted push through the Deep Roads to try and kill the remaining Darkspawn and burn their lairs by a united coalition led by the Wardens.

[Merilsell]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

See, I don't let the Architect live. Ever. And that was before I ever picked up The Calling.

You didn't find the idea of ending the cycle of Blights enticing?

Not when the Failitecht is at the helm.

Lady Jess wrote...
Especially when his "attempts" to stop the blights "accidently" started the blight I just had to stop with a group of rag tag merry men and women, while stopping a civil war and being traumatized by THE BROODMOTHER!!!

This.

The reason he dies every time. I have yet to find a character who is stupid enough to go along the failitects plan's.
Lenya? She has gutted him before he was even done talking.

The Architect: Look I have a wonderful plan how to stop the Blight, we have just work togeth -- *blade is running through him*
Lenya: No. *twisting blade*

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

For me, it always comes back to the Corruption and Broodmothers. I just dont see how the species could ever coexist with the rest of the races of Thedas. if anything, I expect that the destruction of the final Archdemon will lead to a final attempted push through the Deep Roads to try and kill the remaining Darkspawn and burn their lairs by a united coalition led by the Wardens.

Considering how every time a Blight is finished, the nations of Thedas stop caring, at one point even think taht the threat is over, then good luck trying to make them commit to an underground genocidal campaign that will take decades, will be a pain in the ass to finance, mantain and supply, and convince them that surface politics and competition will have to wait.

Some coexistence is possible, if they remain living in the deeproads. Apparently they don't need to eat. Corruption will be contained there and the Architect apparently knows how to make surfacers immune to it anyhow (Qunari merchant).

The problem is definitely reproduction. But a single broodmother can give birth to thousands. So their reproductive needs are not urgent. We don't know how the darkspawn age if they age at all, which might further lessen their reproductive urge (if they are immortal, they no longer need to reproduce).  So in that case, horrific but justifiable sacrifices will have to be made by the surface world. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 07:24 .

[Maricsblade]

Either I'm just a peacenik at heart (I side with the mages to avoid killing any innocents and get Zathrian to remove the curse from the werewolves) or I'm too lore-challenged to understand all of the consequences. Probably both. But based on what I knew of in the game at the time, it sounded like the best long-term solution. Give me a reasonable-sounding person with a similar goal to mine and I'd find it hard to cut him/her down without at least trying to work with him/her for a time, despite some past mistakes.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

But look at what happened to the Darkspawn who went through the joining. Sure, the Arhcitect managed to have some that gained sentience, but how many more besides the Mother and the First went absolutely mad with the removal of the song. It's far more likely that when the last Archdemon is slain that the Darkspawn will go berserk and slaughter each other while some will awaken and go "Aha!" right before being brutally cut down.

Trial and error, he has a chance to perfect his joining.

And the crazed darkspawn rallied under a faction, what's to say that they will fight each other necessarily and not go on a rampage against the living while they are on the surface to begin with? The Mother  might be insane, but she is not "lolz I wana kill anything!" insane. She had a plan. A mad one, but still a plan, she wanted to die and thwart the Architect. 

What's to say that those insane darkspawn don't start blaming the surface world for the death of the Song and continue the massacre with renewed vigor?

It's a risk either way, but I weighted them differently.

They'd still need BROODMOTHERS to procreate. I mean unless you want to see Morrigan turned into one, or Anora?  No thanks! a Queen Broodmother would definitely be a bad thing.

[Lady Jess]

alisgirl wrote...

Either I'm just a peacenik at heart (I side with the mages to avoid killing any innocents and get Zathrian to remove the curse from the werewolves) or I'm too lore-challenged to understand all of the consequences. Probably both. But based on what I knew of in the game at the time, it sounded like the best long-term solution. Give me a reasonable-sounding person with a similar goal to mine and I'd find it hard to cut him/her down without at least trying to work with him/her for a time, despite some past mistakes.

Broodmothers. Nuff said!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
They'd still need BROODMOTHERS to procreate. I mean unless you want to see Morrigan turned into one, or Anora?  No thanks! a Queen Broodmother would definitely be a bad thing.

Like I said above. Sacrifices will have to be made.

[Glorfindel709]

I disagree entirely that sacrificing a woman to the Darkspawn to quote:

"Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.

Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.

Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.

Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.

Now she does feast, as she's become the beast."

is justifiable in any sense of the word.



You heard the Architect, in both The Calling and Awakening. The only recourse for humanity and darkspawn to coexist is for humanity to take a hit and all become tainted hybrids. Sure, millions will die, but they'll have peace, right?

[Maricsblade]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Some coexistence is possible, if they remain living in the deeproads.

Right. You're not depending on a treaty; the thing that drives them from their (apparently favorite) living space would no longer happen. If it were just an agreement, then yeah, that would break every 30 to 100 years and you'd end up with more invasions than before, which would be pointless.

Also agree that human beings are not good at remaining motivated by long-term thinking (e.g., a long campaign in the Deep Roads to wipe out every last darkspawn). Most people are much too motivated by their day-to-day "needs," desires, insecurities, character flaws, personality disorders, what-have-you to dedicate themselves to an undertaking like that.

Edit: Made it clearer that I was agreeing in the first point.

Modifié par alisgirl, 17 février 2011 - 07:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...
You heard the Architect, in both The Calling and Awakening. The only recourse for humanity and darkspawn to coexist is for humanity to take a hit and all become tainted hybrids. Sure, millions will die, but they'll have peace, right?

He mentions nothing of the sort in Awakening, and the Calling my character didn't happen to read. In fact, the Architect's plan seems to have changed. What he does in Awakening is not linked to what his plan was supposed to be in the Calling, a plan he can always scrap. 

[Giggles_Manically]

There is only going to be one end to the darkspawn.

Their complete and utter obliteration from existence.



There will be no compromise, no deals, no mercy.

The Architect is nothing more then a gibbering piece of mutated disease.

That acts no better then any other darkspawn.



MAYBE if he had decided to talk I would have cared.

He captured and experimented on me, then sends dragons after me.



That bastard cant even lead anyone without something bad happening.

He and his kind have no place in Thedas, once they are gone hey its one less problem for the world to face.



Hmm.. if this all history career does not pan out I would make one hell of a Space Marine.

[errant_knight]

Yeah, Glorfindel says it exactly how I see it. Unless there's some way found to make the darkspawn back into what they were before they were darkspawn a la the werewolves, there's no coexistence possible and eradicating the entirely is the only solution.

[Sarah1281]

alisgirl wrote...

Either I'm just a peacenik at heart (I side with the mages to avoid killing any innocents and get Zathrian to remove the curse from the werewolves) or I'm too lore-challenged to understand all of the consequences. Probably both. But based on what I knew of in the game at the time, it sounded like the best long-term solution. Give me a reasonable-sounding person with a similar goal to mine and I'd find it hard to cut him/her down without at least trying to work with him/her for a time, despite some past mistakes.

You have to consider what kind of 'past mistakes' we're talking about. Even just messing up with one broodmother caused all that chaos in Awakening. Then consider that the Architect caused the fith Blight and didn't say anything about not trying agin to awaken a sixth Old God and accidentally starting a sixth Blight. I mean, I'm sure he won't do the exact same thing he did with the fifth Old God but there's no guarantee that it would work or that an awakened Archdemon wouldn't be just as dangerous if not more so.

It's not like the Architect's mistakes lead to failures in lab experiments or anything. His mistakes cost hundreds if not thousands of lives and he doesn't show any indication of stopping his pattern of failing or properly detecting when the awakened darkspawn are bat****. I mean, the Mother can't even freaking move. How did she escape the Architect again? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

alisgirl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Some coexistence is possible, if they remain living in the deeproads.

You're not depending on a treaty; the thing that drives them from their (apparently favorite) living space would no longer happen. If it were just an agreement, then yeah, that would break every 30 to 100 years and you'd end up with more invasions than before, which would be pointless.

Indeed, and since they don't need to eat apparently, they have little urge to migrate to the surface.

[Merilsell]

Glorfindel709 wrote...


You heard the Architect, in both The Calling and Awakening. The only recourse for humanity and darkspawn to coexist is for humanity to take a hit and all become tainted hybrids. Sure, millions will die, but they'll have peace, right?

And that is where my mind boogles. And not only my own but the one of my Warden's as well. Coexisting as tainted hybrid's? No thanks but thanks, I rather take my chances by killing all darkspawn upon sight. It's my Warden's job, after all.

[Maricsblade]

Giggles_Manically wrote...


Their complete and utter obliteration from existence.

There will be no compromise, no deals, no mercy.

Hmm, this sounds like hardliners on each side of a debate on peace in the MIddle East.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Some coexistence is possible, if they remain living in the deeproads.

You're not depending on a treaty; the thing that drives them from their (apparently favorite) living space would no longer happen. If it were just an agreement, then yeah, that would break every 30 to 100 years and you'd end up with more invasions than before, which would be pointless.

Indeed, and since they don't need to eat apparently, they have little urge to migrate to the surface.

Except to pick up some lucky ladies. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 17 février 2011 - 07:33 .

[errant_knight]

moogie1963 wrote...

@ errant_knight I know this line too.It makes me really confused. I think ( in game ) Why are we talking then? What are we talkin ? Hey Duncan i tell you something and all i get is this line.
one mystery more.

Well, Alistair thinks the fact that possible maleficars were taking an interest in your actions and the documents to be troubling. Your PC can feel the same and bring it up. Duncan isn't that worried about it. You have the documents and he thinks you have more important things to worry about than apoatates. That's pretty much all there is to that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I mean, I'm sure he won't do the exact same thing he did with the fifth Old God but there's no guarantee that it would work or that an awakened Archdemon wouldn't be just as dangerous if not more so. 

You had no problem doing the DR did you?