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[Giggles_Manically]

Merilsell wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...


You heard the Architect, in both The Calling and Awakening. The only recourse for humanity and darkspawn to coexist is for humanity to take a hit and all become tainted hybrids. Sure, millions will die, but they'll have peace, right?

And that is where my mind boogles. And not only my own but the one of my Warden's as well. Coexisting as tainted hybrid's? No thanks but thanks, I rather take my chances by killing all darkspawn upon sight. It's my Warden's job, after all.

You can either have the maybe of the architects promise.
Or the assurance of a sword in his and every other darkspawn's guts...

I pick option 2 myself. 

Lenya and Alistair agree.

Only a dead darkspawn...is a good darkspawn.

If Lenya runs across the architect this is the last thing he will see I am guessing:

[Maricsblade]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

@alisgirl -- No problem. And for me, I dont believe nearly anything the Chantry says. It's imperialistic dogma hell-bent on ruling every facet of Life ( like the Catholic Church way back in Medieval Europe) That being said, for the reasons I stated above, I do believe that the Old Gods are the Archdemons and are not just some high dragon unlucky enough to be caught by the Darkspawn and corrupted.

Sounds reasonable. And having been raised in the Catholic Church (and having ditched it as a teenager), I agree wholeheartedly about the Chantry, even if I do think that templars have a legitimate job to do (*somebody* has to kill abominations).

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Indeed, and since they don't need to eat apparently, they have little urge to migrate to the surface.

Except to pick up some lucky ladies. 

They will recieve tranquilized criminal females. They don't deserve it, no one does. But some are more undeserving. 

Are you also considering what it takes to make a person Tranquil?

Considering that the Tranquil have their connection to the Fade cut, I am guessing that it means a lyrium lobotomy.  It is probably quite horrible in itself, considering the secrecy surrounding it.  Plus we really don't know that their existence is emotionless, that they cannot feel horror or pain or disgust.  The Tranquil in the Tower says "thank you, that was an unpleasant experience."  What if that was her way of screaming?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Are you also considering what it takes to make a person Tranquil?

Considering that the Tranquil have their connection to the Fade cut, I am guessing that it means a lyrium lobotomy.  It is probably quite horrible in itself, considering the secrecy surrounding it.  Plus we really don't know that their existence is emotionless, that they cannot feel horror or pain or disgust.  The Tranquil in the Tower says "thank you, that was an unpleasant experience."  What if that was her way of screaming?

"The actual procedure, like the Harrowing, is secret, but the results are
just as well known. The rite severs connection to the Fade. The Tranquil,
therefore, do not dream. This removes the greatest danger that
threatens a weak or unprepared mage, the potential to attract demons
across the Veil. But this is the least of Tranquility's effects. For the
absence of dreams brings with it the end of all magical ability, as
well as all emotion.
"

Whatever they will feel (phsyical pain), it will not be accompanied by the psychological emotional trauma. Hopefully.

 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 08:38 .

[Giggles_Manically]

So yes all to fuel this insane plan lets feed women who commit crimes onto carts then mind wipe them then turn them into mutated baby machines!



A PERFECT PLAN!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So yes all to fuel this insane plan lets feed women who commit crimes onto carts then mind wipe them then turn them into mutated baby machines!

A PERFECT PLAN!

A better alternative than attempting to wipe out a species in what will be a decades long campaign that will be incredibly costly materially and in human lives, giving the darkspawn who should naturally have a minimal reproductive urge a reason to reproduce faster, thus making them raid all over the surface and kidnap any female they can find. 

[Glorfindel709]

I agree with Giggles. That's not a plan I could ever ever see anyone accepting as necessary when genocide is such a preferable option.



Wow. I just said genocide was prefereable to something. I do believe I might be going to hell:sick: Then again, Darkspawn are a cancer so it's not really a genocide and more of a vaccination campaign to eradicate a disease like polio or small pox

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 17 février 2011 - 08:47 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...
Wow. I just said genocide was prefereable to something. I do believe I might be going to hell:sick: Then again, Darkspawn are a cancer so it's not really a genocide and more of a vaccination campaign to eradicate a disease like polio or small pox

With that logic, the elves have a perfectly good reason to wipe out humanity.

[Glorfindel709]

Not really, the quickening of their blood is just myth that has yet to be proven beyond old legends and stories. The Dalish say they are gaining back long lives from their time away from humans but I see it as they're no longer the backbone slave force of an Empire. They're healthier and living longer to their memories because they live in better conditions.



The Darkspawn Corruption is an actual disease, a cancer of the world.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...
The Darkspawn Corruption is an actual disease, a cancer of the world.

A corruption that can be contained in the deep roads and can be protected against.

It's reproduction the issue here and you are saying that a small number of females is worth more than an entire sentient species that can develop a sense of ethics (the messenger) and has as much right to exist as anyone else.

That's a valid view of course. I do not share it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 09:00 .

[rak72]

Darkspawn are parasitic creatures, they can not exist without the destruction of their host. It can not be considered genocide to wipe them out. If they could exist on their own, perhaps this could be a valid argument.

[Giggles_Manically]

As long as the taint exists the darkspawn must be destroyed.

As long as women can be turned into broodmothers the darkspawn must be destroyed.



I dont give even the slightest **** about what the Architect says.

He is a darkspawn.

I kill Darkspawn.

Therefore he dies.



Probably did not suffer as much as all the other people who died because of his screw ups.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Whatever they will feel (phsyical pain), it will not be accompanied by the psychological emotional trauma. Hopefully.

Stress on the "h" word.  None of the codex are word of god, they are all written from a POV.  In this case First Enchanter Josephus.  You think he might have a reason for a PR statement?

Anyway, we know from The Calling that the Architect wants to taint humanity, which in any case would be a likely outcome from cooperating with the spread of darkspawn.  That's like saying let's give everyone in the world cancer, because at least the few who survive the disease will have some immunity.  You don't even know that that's true.  All the Joining does is slow down the effects of the taint and make it non-contagious.

[KnightofPhoenix]

rak72 wrote...

Darkspawn are parasitic creatures, they can not exist without the destruction of their host. It can not be considered genocide to wipe them out. If they could exist on their own, perhaps this could be a valid argument.

Except they are not causing the destruction of their host, unless during blights, which is not what we are arguing.

[Glorfindel709]

But it can't be contained. The Darkspawn, sentient or not, have several base desires. One of which is the expansion of the Horde. They will continue to raid the surface, no cart of tranquil women will be enough.

Not to mention, I wasnt aware that non-mages could go through the Rite of Tranquility. I thought only mages could.

And I'm saying that a sentient species that requires the sacrifice of women and taint whatever they touch should not be reasoned with. *shrugs* Even well intentioned Darkspawn like the Messenger still spread the Taint. You're dooming a sentient species to live in a world of darkness that the only reason they stay down there to begin with is to search for the Old Gods constantly.

Agree to disagree and have a pint over our mutual love of Morrigan?

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 17 février 2011 - 09:05 .

[rak72]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...
The Darkspawn Corruption is an actual disease, a cancer of the world.

A corruption that can be contained in the deep roads and can be protected against.

It's reproduction the issue here and you are saying that a small number of females is worth more than an entire sentient species that can develop a sense of ethics (the messenger) and has as much right to exist as anyone else.

That's a valid view of course. I do not share it.

Come on, KOP, realy, you would sacrifice your own species to allow parasites to procreate.  They would have as much a right to existance if they could exist on their own.  They do not have the right to infect healthy being to fuel their own existance.

[Zeleen]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

As long as the taint exists the darkspawn must be destroyed.
As long as women can be turned into broodmothers the darkspawn must be destroyed.

I dont give even the slightest **** about what the Architect says.
He is a darkspawn.
I kill Darkspawn.
Therefore he dies.

Probably did not suffer as much as all the other people who died because of his screw ups.

Amen Brother!! I never spare him

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Stress on the "h" word.  None of the codex are word of god, they are all written from a POV.  In this case First
Enchanter Josephus.  You think he might have a reason for a PR statement?

And what does he gain from saying that? It only makes it sound worse.

Addai67 wrote...
Anyway, we know from The Calling that the Architect wants to taint humanity, which in any case would be a likely outcome from cooperating with the spread of darkspawn.

No we don't, it's a plan that he or the writers could have always scrapped and in any case, we do not know of it in Awakening. Nothing in Awakening points to his plan necessitating what he apparently wanted to do in the Calling. Already, we know that he didn't do something he said he would do in the Calling (aka he didn't kill the old God, he attempted to free it).

[rak72]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Darkspawn are parasitic creatures, they can not exist without the destruction of their host. It can not be considered genocide to wipe them out. If they could exist on their own, perhaps this could be a valid argument.

Except they are not causing the destruction of their host, unless during blights, which is not what we are arguing.

They corrupt humans when they come in contact with them.  How many people did you need to murder knife because they had come in contact with DS.

[Merilsell]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

Lenya and Alistair agree.

Only a dead darkspawn...is a good darkspawn.

If Lenya runs across the architect this is the last thing he will see I am guessing:

Exactly. The Architect is a Darkspawn. Lenya kills Darkspawn. Care to make conclusions here?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

But it can't be contained. The Darkspawn, sentient or not, have several base desires. One of which is the expansion of the Horde. They will continue to raid the surface, no cart of tranquil women will be enough.

Why? They don't eat. They have no material reason to do so. What you are talking about is them being under the influence of the song, where they cannot reason. Other than that, I do not see any material reason for them to want to expand the horde. For what? Sure human expansions always have the flavour of ideology around them, but at the end of the day if it wasn't for limited ressources (coupled with overpopulation), humans would have little reason to fight and expand.

They might not even age or age very slowly.  So we do not know about their reproductive urge once they awaken.

And the Architect protected the Qunari merchant from the taint via magic.

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Not to mention, I wasnt aware that non-mages could go through the Rite of Tranquility. I thought only mages could.

All mortals dream in the Fade. Tranquilizing is cutting them off from the Fade. I think even non-mages can be tranquilized. I am not sure, but I don't see why not.

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Agree to disagree and have a pint over our mutual love of Morrigan?

[KnightofPhoenix]

rak72 wrote...
They corrupt humans when they come in contact with them.

Contact that can be avoided. They do not need food, they do not need ressources or land, and we do not know about their reproductive urges. If they cannot age, then they do not need to reproduce.

All this makes it materially plausible and likely that they will remain in the deep roads. Why would they want to come into contact with humans?

[Giggles_Manically]

................................

So the darkspawn will all just hang out play Uno, and sing kumbya deep underground forever and ever and ever?

[Lady Jess]

Kasha says all Darkspawn must die, and since she's Queen of Ferelden, Commander of the Grey Arl of Amaranthine, and Teyrn of Gwaren..who's going to object. Besides the king, and well, he's kinda powerless to her charms







Maybe the other Teyrn...no wait, that's her big brother

[Lady Jess]

Also? It's THURSDAY people what happened?