39010 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

................................
So the darkspawn will all just hang out play Uno, and sing kumbya deep underground forever and ever and ever?

Why not.

If they have no biological needs. No land shortage. No disease. A small reproductive urge as a result. Then yea, they have little to no biological / material need to expand or want to come into contact with humans. They are completely self-sufficient, with the exception of reproduction that we already covered. 

I expect them to devote their existence to philosophy. Maybe even art.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 09:33 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...

Kasha says all Darkspawn must die, and since she's Queen of Ferelden, Commander of the Grey Arl of Amaranthine, and Teyrn of Gwaren..who's going to object. Besides the king, and well, he's kinda powerless to her charms

Because Ferelden is so capable of doing it on its own

But if it's Kasha who says so, I might be persuaded. Might

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

................................
So the darkspawn will all just hang out play Uno, and sing kumbya deep underground forever and ever and ever?

Why not.

If they have no biological needs. No land shortage. No disease. A small reproductive urge as a result. Then yea, they have little to no biological / material need to expand or want to come into contact with humans. They are completely self-sufficient, with the exception of reproduction that we already covered. 

I expect them to devote their existence to philosophy. Maybe even art.

So after that happened maybe we can invite the Qunari to tea and they can descend on their double complete rainbows and deliver cookies to all the children of the world!
Then maybe the Grey Warden can give up their military ideals and go knit sweaters to share on christmas with their new darkspawn buddies!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So after that happened maybe we can invite the Qunari to tea and they can descend on their double complete rainbows and deliver cookies to all the children of the world!
Then maybe the Grey Warden can give up their military ideals and go knit sweaters to share on christmas with their new darkspawn buddies!

No, since the Qunari, other than being ideologically motivated, have material / biological needs like the others that shape them (and I would argue, these are always at the core). Indeed, we know they migrated from their ancient homeland, for material reasons no doubt (overpopulation, land shortage..etc).

You are comparing "normal" sentient species with a species that does not follow the norm in any way. They lack all the necessary pre-conditions that shaped the human species into the nomadic / expansionist / warring species that we are now.   

[errant_knight]

OT/ Damn it, I just spent the last two and a half hours getting a frozen car started, digging out tire changing equipement and a spare from the trunk full of stuff (in -15 below weather) and now I can't figure out how to get the jack in a place where I can actually turn the handle to lift the car. Gah! /OT

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So after that happened maybe we can invite the Qunari to tea and they can descend on their double complete rainbows and deliver cookies to all the children of the world!
Then maybe the Grey Warden can give up their military ideals and go knit sweaters to share on christmas with their new darkspawn buddies!

No, since the Qunari, other than being ideologically motivated, have material / biological needs like the others that shape them (and I would argue, these are always at the core). Indeed, we know they migrated from their ancient homeland, for material reasons no doubt (overpopulation, land shortage..etc).

You are comparing "normal" sentient species with a species that does not follow the norm in any way. They lack all the necessary pre-conditions that shaped the human species into the nomadic / expansionist / warring species that we are now.   

Heh.
Yet you argue that the darkspawn will all go and live like hippies deep under ground when even the awakened darkspawn act no better then the insane darkspawn.

They still fight each other, and descend into conflict.
They have given zero indication that they will change, or that most want to change.

But hey go right ahead and believe him,  thats your perogative.
Just like it is mine to splatter that bastard across the whole room.

[rak72]

The Darkspawn breed a lot faster than humans, they will run out of room in the deep roads and infest the surface.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Stress on the "h" word.  None of the codex are word of god, they are all written from a POV.  In this case First
Enchanter Josephus.  You think he might have a reason for a PR statement?

And what does he gain from saying that? It only makes it sound worse.

He gains exactly what you hope to gain- a sense that it's ok because they don't feel the ramifications anyway.

No we don't, it's a plan that he or the writers could have always scrapped and in any case, we do not know of it in Awakening. Nothing in Awakening points to his plan necessitating what he apparently wanted to do in the Calling. Already, we know that he didn't do something he said he would do in the Calling (aka he didn't kill the old God, he attempted to free it).

I mean "we" in a metagame sense.  In an Awakening sense, nothing about the Architect says he's worth trusting or that his nutty plan can even work.  No, crazy darkspawn who captured and experimented on me, I will not allow you to do the same to others.  *fireball*

[Giggles_Manically]

You are forgetting that he sent two small dragons to kill you as well Addai.

[Glorfindel709]

[quote]Glorfindel709 wrote...

Agree to disagree and have a pint over our mutual love of Morrigan?[/quote]




[/quote]


:wub::wub::wub::O:O:wub:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
They still fight each other, and descend into conflict.
They have given zero indication that they will change, or that most want to change.

It was a war between the Awakened and the insane, in a context where the Architect's joining has not yet been perfected. The Awakened were not the ones who initiated the conflict. What we saw in Awakening is different from the hypothetical situation of the Architect succeeding and the species awakening (I deem whatever failure he might cause as impossible to be worse than a blight and as such worth the risk).

As for the Awakened not acting better than the rest. They take prisoners for one. They are willing to listen. One decides to help a people that will never accept him for no reason whasoever. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

rak72 wrote...

The Darkspawn breed a lot faster than humans, they will run out of room in the deep roads and infest the surface.

We don't know how they age, if they age at all. They don't eat. They don't need land. They do not succumb to disease. Which means their reproductive urge is going to be minimal.  They do not need many broodmothers to come to the point where the deep roads cannot contain them, in order to survive.

Addai67 wrote...
 In
an Awakening sense, nothing about the Architect says he's worth trusting
or that his nutty plan can even work. 

If it can't work, it will be back to normal with the blights. Very little to lose.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 09:58 .

[Merilsell]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

................................
So the darkspawn will all just hang out play Uno, and sing kumbya deep underground forever and ever and ever?

Now I really want a FA of Uno-playing darkspawn. Or they are playing strippoker with the broodmother

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
They still fight each other, and descend into conflict.
They have given zero indication that they will change, or that most want to change.

It was a war between the Awakened and the insane, in a context where the Architect's joining has not yet been perfected. The Awakened were not the ones who initiated the conflict. What we saw in Awakening is different from the hypothetical situation of the Architect succeeding and the species awakening (I deem whatever failure he might cause as impossible to be worse than a blight and as such worth the risk).

As for the Awakened not acting better than the rest. They take prisoners for one. They are willing to listen. One decides to help a people that will never accept him for no reason whasoever. 

So you are just going to go:
Oops! every time the architect ****s up then and starts another disaster I take it?

[Maricsblade]

Lady Jess wrote...

Also? It's THURSDAY people what happened?

Nice one, LJ! Love that look on his face.

[Giggles_Manically]

Merilsell wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

................................
So the darkspawn will all just hang out play Uno, and sing kumbya deep underground forever and ever and ever?

Now I really want a FA of Uno-playing darkspawn. Or they are playing strippoker with the broodmother

Darkspawn chip and dales anyone? :innocent:

[Glorfindel709]

Ewwwwwwwwww Giggles. Whhhy?

[Giggles_Manically]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Ewwwwwwwwww Giggles. Whhhy?

Because I can.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So you are just going to go:
Oops! every time the architect ****s up then and starts another disaster I take it?

No, I will say: "a pity, but the attempt was worthy and can't possibly be worse than what it's trying to prevent".

Much better than expressing bloodlust at a species that is not responsable for what it is. Even if removing them is necessary, doing so with bloodlust and seemingly expressing pleasure at the prospect (without making much if any material considerations I would add)  is hardly necessary, and unpleasant to read. 

[Merilsell]

Lady Jess wrote...

Also? It's THURSDAY people what happened?

Sorry Jess. Here have some AU-smut. AU because I took those pics while I was testing the mod, and my both Wardens was forced to do....well...stuff, they normally wouldn't do atm.  ... But I'm getting there. Eventually. Some day. Perhaps.


Nevertheless, I love that picture

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So you are just going to go:
Oops! every time the architect ****s up then and starts another disaster I take it?

No, I will say: "a pity, but the attempt was worthy and can't possibly be worse than what it's trying to prevent".

Tell that to all the people who get killed every time he screws up, or to all the women who get raped and mutilated to become broodmothers...
Oh wait YOU CANT.

His screw ups started a blight and the Awakening crisis.
Sorry but those are not minor events that you can go "whatevs" and move on from.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
His screw ups started a blight and the Awakening crisis.
Sorry but those are not minor events that you can go "whatevs" and move on from.

The blight would have happened anyhow. Even if he had only 1% chance to prevent it, it would be justified rather than do nothing.

His "screw ups" are due to risks he is taking to prevent something worse: 2 blights and then Maker knows what after the song is gone. The failures resulted in tragedy (and will probably be a learning experience), but it was logically within acceptable parameters for me. 

I do not allow emotional reactions to shape my decisions as much as possible, that doesn't mean I go "whatevs" when something tragic happens.  

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
His screw ups started a blight and the Awakening crisis.
Sorry but those are not minor events that you can go "whatevs" and move on from.

The blight would have happened anyhow. Even if he had only 1% chance to prevent it, it would be justified rather than do nothing.

His "screw ups" are due to risks he is taking to prevent something worse: 2 blights and then Maker knows what after the song is gone. The failures resulted in tragedy (and will probably be a learning experience), but it was logically within acceptable parameters for me. 

I do not allow emotional reactions to shape my decisions as much as possible, that doesn't mean I go "whatevs" when something tragic happens.  

And what if the Architect is simply lying to you?
Or decides that he cant trust people and tries to wipe them out?

The Archiect has given no reason to trust him at all, nor are his methods sound.
Darkspawn are not a species.

Just diseased raping parasites that you seem to think should be given intelligence and then trusted.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
And what if the Architect is simply lying to you?
Or decides that he cant trust people and tries to wipe them out?

Well considering some of the posts here, I wouldn't blame him.

Even if he is lying, you seem to overestimate what he can do. What could he possibly do worse than starting a blight that is going to happen anyhow? 

If you want to extend what ifs indefinately, I can give you a reason not to trust a single person alive.
In the moment, what I saw of his plan is not contradictory to the wellbeing of our species and is fighting a common enemy (mother and blight). And even if he dies, someone of his disciples will take his place (and probably blame you for killing their savior). I'd rather deal with the "evil" I know in the future. Who I found was rather reasonable and willing to negotiate.  

Giggles_Manically wrote...
Darkspawn are not a species.

Just diseased raping parasites that you seem to think should be given intelligence and then trusted.

Not should. That I think are very likely to acquire it anyhow after the last old God is slain and the song is no more.

Cooperating with already awakened darkspawn that don't just awaken in the middle of a war, and trying to find a way to coexist which is possible and plausible as I have already explained, while a risk, is a better alternative than declare war and "exterminatz!" a species that becomes sentient with swords at its neck, driving them into a corner and forcing them to kidnap as many women as they can find to keep up the fight. And that is assuming that you can somehow conjur up the ressources, morale and diplomatic ingeniuty to convince all nations in Thedas to go genociding underground for decades.       

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 février 2011 - 10:59 .

[Giggles_Manically]

And your insane plan to cart off women to the darkspawn is any better?

Where you are going to let them build up their own power to reach whatever end they want?



You are taking just as much of a risk your way as I take going my way.

Dont try and sell it any different.