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[Lady Jess]

Persephone wrote...

Let me put it this way LadyJess:

I do not see it as treachery to spare him.

And one very potent reason for my Cousland to spare Loghain was Anora's presence. She witnessed her father dying without being able to save him. Quoting my girl out of my ff "No sin could be so great as to inflict that upon another soul." I also have watched a parent die. It is harrowing. No way could I do this to anyone, esp. as a Cousland.

As for Howe: What about the facepalming? He was baiting Eamon at the estate, I really see no friendship between him an Howe, only disgust on Loghain's end and weasly bootlicking on Howe's.

I've seen (and defended at times) your reasons. But that in no way is going to change mine for killing him. I have RP reasons every time that are just as valid, and get my characters the endings they want  with their chosen romance/friends.

The facepalming, meh not conclusive.
Edit: ToP

Modifié par Lady Jess, 21 février 2011 - 06:17 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
Well then I hold him in contempt for the stmp and execute him for it:P My warden doesn't KNOW this at the time.

BUT Loghain DOES know about the Couslands AT Ostagar. And he could follow through on Cailan's promise, He has his army still, and I'm sure there were others that would GLADLY assist.  And by doing so not HAVE Howe taking crap over in Denerim too. In fact, it would have been a smart thing to do, more people may have fallen in line with Loghain that way.

Well you can see that Howe claimed Vaughan died. And you hear that Howe was the one who dide the purge, which means his army is in Denerim (Kylon confirms it also).

He knows about the Couslands after Howe already took Highever (and with relative ease, makes you wonder how loyal the banns were to the Couslands). And I think it would have been reckless to declare war on the man who still has his army, while the other banns lost a great deal of it. Howe also has Amranthine, one of the wealthiest Arlings.  So is he really supposed to trade him for a few idiot banns who have nothing?

I think Loghain is a horrible politician who did not know how to deal with the idiotc banns. But making Howe an ally was not, imo, a bad decision in the short term. In the long run, yea probably, but Loghain could have htought that he would deal with him later.

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Let me put it this way LadyJess:

I do not see it as treachery to spare him.

And one very potent reason for my Cousland to spare Loghain was Anora's presence. She witnessed her father dying without being able to save him. Quoting my girl out of my ff "No sin could be so great as to inflict that upon another soul." I also have watched a parent die. It is harrowing. No way could I do this to anyone, esp. as a Cousland.

As for Howe: What about the facepalming? He was baiting Eamon at the estate, I really see no friendship between him an Howe, only disgust on Loghain's end and weasly bootlicking on Howe's.

I've seen (and defended at times) your reasons. But that in no way is going to change mine for killing him. I have RP reasons every time that are just as valid, and get my characters the endings they want  with their chosen romance/friends.

The facepalming, meh not conclusive.

I am not trying to change your mind, LadyJess. Merely pointing out some things I feel are very important. RP -ing is what makes this game so wonderful. BTW, I DO feel your pain, as I am getting my DA2 Drunkistair save ready atm. My Amell will not be a happy woman once the Epilogue slides begin to roll...

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Well then I hold him in contempt for the stmp and execute him for it:P My warden doesn't KNOW this at the time.

BUT Loghain DOES know about the Couslands AT Ostagar. And he could follow through on Cailan's promise, He has his army still, and I'm sure there were others that would GLADLY assist.  And by doing so not HAVE Howe taking crap over in Denerim too. In fact, it would have been a smart thing to do, more people may have fallen in line with Loghain that way.

Well you can see that Howe claimed Vaughan died. And you hear that Howe was the one who dide the purge, which means his army is in Denerim (Kylon confirms it also).

He knows about the Couslands after Howe already took Highever (and with relative ease, makes you wonder how loyal the banns were to the Couslands). And I think it would have been reckless to declare war on the man who still has his army, while the other banns lost a great deal of it. Howe also has Amranthine, one of the wealthiest Arlings.  So is he really supposed to trade him for a few idiot banns who have nothing?

I think Loghain is a horrible politician who did not know how to deal with the idiotc banns. But making Howe an ally was not, imo, a bad decision in the short term. In the long run, yea probably, but Loghain could have htought that he would deal with him later.

Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

Edit: Loghain also DEFENDS the slavery. So, my elves pretty much hear that part and make the decision.

Modifié par Lady Jess, 21 février 2011 - 06:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

Sure, that's a valid way to look at it.

My Arcturus Cousland would disagree with Kasha, before inviting her for a drink

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

Sure, that's a valid way to look at it.

My Arcturus Cousland would disagree with Kasha, before inviting her for a drink

In a Parallel universe...

Eamon: Where is the queen Alistair?
Alistair: I...actually she was just right here...
Zevran: Oh, She's having drinks with the King of Ferelden
Alistair: ...wait what?

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Well then I hold him in contempt for the stmp and execute him for it:P My warden doesn't KNOW this at the time.

BUT Loghain DOES know about the Couslands AT Ostagar. And he could follow through on Cailan's promise, He has his army still, and I'm sure there were others that would GLADLY assist.  And by doing so not HAVE Howe taking crap over in Denerim too. In fact, it would have been a smart thing to do, more people may have fallen in line with Loghain that way.

Well you can see that Howe claimed Vaughan died. And you hear that Howe was the one who dide the purge, which means his army is in Denerim (Kylon confirms it also).

He knows about the Couslands after Howe already took Highever (and with relative ease, makes you wonder how loyal the banns were to the Couslands). And I think it would have been reckless to declare war on the man who still has his army, while the other banns lost a great deal of it. Howe also has Amranthine, one of the wealthiest Arlings.  So is he really supposed to trade him for a few idiot banns who have nothing?

I think Loghain is a horrible politician who did not know how to deal with the idiotc banns. But making Howe an ally was not, imo, a bad decision in the short term. In the long run, yea probably, but Loghain could have htought that he would deal with him later.

Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

Edit: Loghain also DEFENDS the slavery. So, my elves pretty much hear that part and make the decision.

He doesn't defend it, he explains why, despite his regrets, he made that decision. This is the Landsmeet where everyone is justifying their deeds, fishing for votes. Do you truly expect him to offer apologies in that arena? Still, mercy is the virtue many of my CEs (Not all) value, because it was never shown to them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

And we still have to account for the fact that they are both Couslands...with the same parents...

It's just a friendly drink!

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

Sure, that's a valid way to look at it.

My Arcturus Cousland would disagree with Kasha, before inviting her for a drink

In a Parallel universe...

Eamon: Where is the queen Alistair?
Alistair: I...actually she was just right here...
Zevran: Oh, She's having drinks with the King of Ferelden
Alistair: ...wait what?

Perfect way to bring the main topic back.

[Lady Jess]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And we still have to account for the fact that they are both Couslands...with the same parents...
It's just a friendly drink!

Zevran: Calm down Alistair, it's her brother..
Fergus: Wait what????

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

That's actually one of, though not the only reason, my own Human Noble rogue decided he should die, though not so simple. For all she knew, Loghain was a part of Howe's plots. As we know, this is not the case, but from an RP perspective, There is no way to discover otherwise in game. Not only was it revenge, but self preservation. So it's a mix of the desire for revenge, as well as removing what could be a danger to her person.

Though imprisonment would have been her first choice, she wanted some answers.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And we still have to account for the fact that they are both Couslands...with the same parents...
It's just a friendly drink!

Zevran: Calm down Alistair, it's her brother..
Fergus: Wait what????

lol alternate realities is fun.

Howe: It's like there is no end to you blasted Couslands!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And we still have to account for the fact that they are both Couslands...with the same parents...
It's just a friendly drink!

That's actually a good philisophical question:

If somehow, you enter a paralel dimension, and your parents have children that aren't you or your siblings, are you still related?

If you met your double from a paralell dimension, who was basically you, and you had sex with them, is that homosexuality or masturbation? And if you killed them, would that be homicide or suicide?

The world wants to know.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
That's actually a good philisophical question:

If somehow, you enter a paralel dimension, and your parents have children that aren't you or your siblings, are you still related?

Biologically and genetically speaking, yes.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
If you met your double from a paralell dimension, who was basically you, and you had sex with them, is that homosexuality or masturbation? And if you killed them, would that be homicide or suicide?

The world wants to know.

I cannot provide answers to these questions lol

[Lady Jess]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

That's actually one of, though not the only reason, my own Human Noble rogue decided he should die, though not so simple. For all she knew, Loghain was a part of Howe's plots. As we know, this is not the case, but from an RP perspective, There is no way to discover otherwise in game. Not only was it revenge, but self preservation. So it's a mix of the desire for revenge, as well as removing what could be a danger to her person.

Though imprisonment would have been her first choice, she wanted some answers.

yeah no kidding.

Kasha: Howe I want answers
Howe: *gets a case oif the stupids and attacks*
Kasha: Well FFFF.

Kasha: Loghain I want Answers!
loghain: Duel!!
Kasha: *wins* Ok you've been beat by a girl. Now, ANSWERS!
Alistair: KILL HIM ALREADY
Riortdan: blah blah recruit blah blah
Kasha: Sigh....screw it, *beheads Loghain*

Kasha: I swear to GOD Alistair if you EVER do that again...
Alistair: He took the last piece of cheese...

[Curlain]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
That's actually a good philisophical question:

If somehow, you enter a paralel dimension, and your parents have children that aren't you or your siblings, are you still related?

Biologically and genetically speaking, yes.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
If you met your double from a paralell dimension, who was basically you, and you had sex with them, is that homosexuality or masturbation? And if you killed them, would that be homicide or suicide?

The world wants to know.

I cannot provide answers to these questions lol

Ah, this gives the concept of loving yourself a whole new dimension 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Biologically and genetically speaking, yes.

That would suck, especially if they were hawt.

I cannot provide answers to these questions lol

Pheh. What good are you? How the hell to you expect to rule a world when such questions keep citizens such as myself awake at night?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Lady Jess wrote...
yeah no kidding.

Kasha: Howe I want answers
Howe: *gets a case oif the stupids and attacks*
Kasha: Well FFFF.

Kasha: Loghain I want Answers!
loghain: Duel!!
Kasha: *wins* Ok you've been beat by a girl. Now, ANSWERS!
Alistair: KILL HIM ALREADY
Riortdan: blah blah recruit blah blah
Kasha: Sigh....screw it, *beheads Loghain*

Kasha: I swear to GOD Alistair if you EVER do that again...
Alistair: He took the last piece of cheese...

LOL! Loghain only took the last piece of cheese because he could not bear to see it divided any further! (Reference to a Simeon Templeman appearance in ER).

[Persephone]

Lady Jess wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
Ok, then rather  than Kasha killing him for rewarding the pig. She'll kill him for Allying with him. It makes no difference, Loghain is guilty by association, whether he liked the guy or not, whether it was a smart move or not. I know the rational argument, you know the rational argument, but Kasha doesn't.

That's actually one of, though not the only reason, my own Human Noble rogue decided he should die, though not so simple. For all she knew, Loghain was a part of Howe's plots. As we know, this is not the case, but from an RP perspective, There is no way to discover otherwise in game. Not only was it revenge, but self preservation. So it's a mix of the desire for revenge, as well as removing what could be a danger to her person.

Though imprisonment would have been her first choice, she wanted some answers.

yeah no kidding.

Kasha: Howe I want answers
Howe: *gets a case oif the stupids and attacks*
Kasha: Well FFFF.

Kasha: Loghain I want Answers!
loghain: Duel!!
Kasha: *wins* Ok you've been beat by a girl. Now, ANSWERS!
Alistair: KILL HIM ALREADY
Riortdan: blah blah recruit blah blah
Kasha: Sigh....screw it, *beheads Loghain*

Kasha: I swear to GOD Alistair if you EVER do that again...
Alistair: He took the last piece of cheese...

That's both amusing AND disturbing. My fave kind! 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I cannot provide answers to these questions lol

Pheh. What good are you? How the hell to you expect to rule a world when such questions keep citizens such as myself awake at night?

Fret not, I'll create an alternate dimensions machine and send you there, so you can find the answers yourself.

[Lady Jess]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...
yeah no kidding.

Kasha: Howe I want answers
Howe: *gets a case oif the stupids and attacks*
Kasha: Well FFFF.

Kasha: Loghain I want Answers!
loghain: Duel!!
Kasha: *wins* Ok you've been beat by a girl. Now, ANSWERS!
Alistair: KILL HIM ALREADY
Riortdan: blah blah recruit blah blah
Kasha: Sigh....screw it, *beheads Loghain*

Kasha: I swear to GOD Alistair if you EVER do that again...
Alistair: He took the last piece of cheese...

LOL! Loghain only took the last piece of cheese because he could not bear to see it divided any further! (Reference to a Simeon Templeman appearance in ER).

LMAO omg that was HIM! I thought his voice sounded familiar!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Lady Jess wrote...


LMAO omg that was HIM! I thought his voice sounded familiar!

I can picture a new and improved Landsmeet:

Loghain to Alistair: . Take the throne and my daughter and sire a line of idiot kings, if that's what you think needs to be done. Cut off my head and dismember my corpse, feed it to the street mongrels to be shat out for your amusement, if it makes you feel better. But for the love of the Maker, and by what little of Maric you have in you,

DO NOT, I BEG YOU, CUT THE CHEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really. Bioware needs to hire me to write those moments they have difficulty with.

[Lady Jess]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...


LMAO omg that was HIM! I thought his voice sounded familiar!

I can picture a new and improved Landsmeet:

Loghain to Alistair: . Take the throne and my daughter and sire a line of idiot kings, if that's what you think needs to be done. Cut off my head and dismember my corpse, feed it to the street mongrels to be shat out for your amusement, if it makes you feel better. But for the love of the Maker, and by what little of Maric you have in you,

DO NOT, I BEG YOU, CUT THE CHEESE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really. Bioware needs to hire me to write those moments they have difficulty with.

ROFL Indeed, I say we start a petition right now!

[Auora]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

To be fair, she can RP it as not expecting Alistair to strike him down immediately. That she alows Alistair to fight for something he obviously feels very strongly about (too much in fact), but didn't think he would kill him right off the bat, when the duel itself is till one party yields.

That's what I did with my goody goody mage. He didn't necessarily want to kill Loghain, and was "dude! wtf?" when Alistair killed him without blinking an eye. That's just one thing out of many that mde him realize that hey, life is ****. That being said, the cutscene does not give that impression at all, but I ignored it.

However, if indeed there is someone who doesn't want another to die, but allows his / her friend to do because otherwise the kid will leave, that's I am sorry to say, revolting to me.
I wouldn't kill someone if I didn't feel it necessary even if it's my mom telling me to.

It's not that I would let him do it because I don't want him to leave. I could care less about that. However, I feel that if he seeks revenge that strongly, then he should have it so he can get past what happened at Ostagar and move on and be a good king. Much like Maric killed Bann Coerlic (*sp) in revenge for betraying his mother. It seems like it brought him a little peace, at least. 

I really thought it would be more of Alistair beating Loghain within an inch of his life, then letting him live. But alas, that is now how the writers have decided it to be. 

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
However, if indeed there is someone who doesn't want another to die, but allows his / her friend to do because otherwise the kid will leave, that's I am sorry to say, revolting to me.
I wouldn't kill someone if I didn't feel it necessary even if it's my mom telling me to.

I'd be okay if the person making the decision doesn't feel strongly one way or another (about sparing the condemned). So if I had a friend who REALLY wanted to kill person X, and I had zero interest on whether that person lived or died, then meh...