39010 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Maria13 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

@GM that you should be sneaky and cunning dealing with your enemies rather than forthright?
That a strong King should allow a ruthless enemy and rival to live?
That an old general can make even an Archdemon die of indigestion?

Nope.

That politicans exist in a brutal world full of crulety and lies.
If he cant learn that lesson he should not be on the throne.

Nice guys finish dead last in politics. 

So then he's right to chop Loggy's head off, isn't he?

Nope.

He only talks when things dont go his way.
I am using this as.. a learning example and a political move to get Anora on my side.

I well.. hate hearing him go: OMG OMG MAKE ME KING SO I CAN MURDER HIM NAO!
Sorry Alistair but that was not what the terms we were given for the duel. 

Oh, so despite the fact that nice guys finish last in politics, your words, not mine, and that this is a lesson he needs to learn, so you say... He's supposed to stick to the terms of the duel...

I think you are contradicting yourself...

If he abided by the duel's rules is he not being the nice guy you deplore and not learning the lesson he needs to learn?

Do you think Loghain would have accepted Ali's surrender? I don't.



Killing Loghain is a turning point for Ali. A positive one he positively glows afterwards...

Yes. Like a child after eating a few chocolate bars. How does the afterglow of achieved vengeance and bloodlust, never mind childish tantrums, become something positive again?

[Zeleen]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

@Zeleen

Gah too much like The Golden Ponce

OK if you don't  like my Alistair - but why bash???

[errant_knight]

And people wonder why the thread is less active....
That's why I come to a squee thread--to here how much the character sucks.

Modifié par errant_knight, 04 mars 2011 - 04:52 .

[Glorfindel709]

Zeleen, it wasnt bashing, I was joking around :-p

I have an infamous hatred of The Golden Ponce xD

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Guys, let's just drop it for now and get back to loving the big guy with the cheese obsession

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 04 mars 2011 - 05:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Eh, in the old thread, people used to bash each other's Alistair all the time. I still remember Yuki's unholy hatred of "Maricstair".

[Elysis]

 You know what this thread needs? Zeleen's GerAlistair:wub:

http://t3.gstatic.co...Co1Pw336ROw&t=1

*couldn't get a bigger picture* /sniffles

...:wub:

Modifié par Elysis, 04 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[Maria13]

Persephone wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Maria13 wrote...

@GM that you should be sneaky and cunning dealing with your enemies rather than forthright?
That a strong King should allow a ruthless enemy and rival to live?
That an old general can make even an Archdemon die of indigestion?

Nope.

That politicans exist in a brutal world full of crulety and lies.
If he cant learn that lesson he should not be on the throne.

Nice guys finish dead last in politics. 

So then he's right to chop Loggy's head off, isn't he?

Nope.

He only talks when things dont go his way.
I am using this as.. a learning example and a political move to get Anora on my side.

I well.. hate hearing him go: OMG OMG MAKE ME KING SO I CAN MURDER HIM NAO!
Sorry Alistair but that was not what the terms we were given for the duel. 

Oh, so despite the fact that nice guys finish last in politics, your words, not mine, and that this is a lesson he needs to learn, so you say... He's supposed to stick to the terms of the duel...

I think you are contradicting yourself...

If he abided by the duel's rules is he not being the nice guy you deplore and not learning the lesson he needs to learn?

Do you think Loghain would have accepted Ali's surrender? I don't.



Killing Loghain is a turning point for Ali. A positive one he positively glows afterwards...

Yes. Like a child after eating a few chocolate bars. How does the afterglow of achieved vengeance and bloodlust, never mind childish tantrums, become something positive again?

Positive for Alistair, I meant. Sometimes we forget that despite the goofyness our character, like many others in the game is a trained and seasoned killer.  Killing the guy, in a clean fight, who killed his friends and wouldn't have hesitated to kill him and his lover does give him a sense of accomplishment. And why not?

Modifié par Maria13, 04 mars 2011 - 05:53 .

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...

And people wonder why the thread is less active....
That's why I come to a squee thread--to here how much the character sucks.

I get what you're saying but... it's usually when this sort of thing happens that the thread is more active... ironically.

[Maricsblade]

@Glor, I like your new avatar. Plus you look a lot less like Giggles now.

[Zeleen]

Elysis wrote...

 You know what this thread needs? Zeleen's GerAlistair:wub:

http://t3.gstatic.co...Co1Pw336ROw&t=1

*couldn't get a bigger picture* /sniffles

...:wub:

Here you go

[Glorfindel709]

alisgirl wrote...

@Glor, I like your new avatar. Plus you look a lot less like Giggles now.

Thank you This is my new HN Warrior, Samuel Cousland. I went with the heroic pose for the picture because lets be honest, he looks pretty bamf-tastic in that picture.

[Maricsblade]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

@Glor, I like your new avatar. Plus you look a lot less like Giggles now.

Thank you This is my new HN Warrior, Samuel Cousland. I went with the heroic pose for the picture because lets be honest, he looks pretty bamf-tastic in that picture.

Agree. Reminds me of someone but I can't think of who right now.

[Elysis]

 @Zeleen : THANKS!! *swoons* :wub:

[Addai]

alisgirl wrote...

@KoP You are talking about the distinction between emotionally based decision-making and rational decision-making. Obviously you strongly prefer the latter; if you are familiar with Myers Briggs personality types, Zevran is an ST, Morrigan is an NT, Loghain is some type of T. But that trait also is separate from intelligence. Otherwise only scientists, lawyers, and engineers--and not novelists, educators, or diplomats--could ever be called brilliant.

Oh I love Myer's Briggs.   INFP here. 

I would say Loghain is an ISTP.

Zevran is tough.  I would go with ENFP but his lifestyle has forced him to be more calculating.

Alistair... hmm.  He's a tough one, too.  He seems to be a bit of a loner despite being personable.  I would probably put him as a fellow INFP.  In his crisis moment, he flips to a very exaggerated and unyielding STJ, as people tend to do when highly stressed.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 mars 2011 - 11:25 .

[PickledGear]

I'm an INFJ. I'm going through so many of the characters and I don't think any of them are INFJs seeing as INFJ is the rarest personality type in the world. And even more so in Males to. I guess the only INFJ there could be in Dragon Age would be my own Warden haha.

[Jon Jern_]

I started my DA playthroughs.

Found out I stopped playing them right at the deep roads.

Deleted those saves.

Life feels so much better.

Modifié par Jon Jern , 04 mars 2011 - 11:29 .

[Glorfindel709]

I'm an INTP! Yeah yeah!!

Also, congrats Jon

[crotti]

Addai67 wrote...

alisgirl wrote...

@KoP You are talking about the distinction between emotionally based decision-making and rational decision-making. Obviously you strongly prefer the latter; if you are familiar with Myers Briggs personality types, Zevran is an ST, Morrigan is an NT, Loghain is some type of T. But that trait also is separate from intelligence. Otherwise only scientists, lawyers, and engineers--and not novelists, educators, or diplomats--could ever be called brilliant.

Oh I love Myer's Briggs.   INFP here. 

I would say Loghain is an ISTP.

Zevran is tough.  I would go with ENFP but his lifestyle has forced him to be more calculating.

Alistair... hmm.  He's a tough one, too.  He seems to be a bit of a loner despite being personable.  I would probably put him as a fellow INFP.  In his crisis moment, he flips to a very exaggerated and unyielding STJ, as people tend to do when highly stressed.

I'm an INFP 

[Giggles_Manically]

Hmm... I think I am a BAMF on that scale.

[Jon Jern_]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Hmm... I think I am a BAMF on that scale.

I love you.

[Bitenomnom]

INFJ here. (Usually, but I'm certain I flip over to INFP often enough.)

Giggles: Bahahaha. XD

[Addai]

alisgirl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

alisgirl wrote...
I think it is what you're talking about; you just aren't realizing it. You see "rational" decisions as being "intelligent" and "emotional" decisions as being "unintelligent," or as not "making use of" one's intelligence. It isn't good or bad; it's just something to know about yourself. 

The first part is not what I am talking about and I realize what I am saying. Rationality and intelligence are not identical. The second part is not exactly what I am saying. However, when emotional reactions cloud reason (as in when they go in opposition, which they don't always do, and emotions overrule reason in the head of the decision maker), then yes, I would not consider whatever decision that will result in to be intelligent. 

So because Alistair has hated Loghain since Ostagar and has had a burning fire in his belly ever since to kill the guy, his reaction to sparing Loghain at the Landsmeet is not an "emotional reaction" -- it's a long-considered position that's in line with every value that he holds dear. However, his desire to execute Loghain or abandon the Wardens is still an emotional decision because it's based on his values rather than on practical concerns like "Could we use another Warden?" or "Would this help us politically?" etc. So...are those decisions intelligent or not?

I know exactly what you're saying since you brought up Myers Briggs.  And I've used that model before when discussing these two and the Landsmeet, though not using the four letters per se. 

People who value rationality/ principle often look down on those who run on a more intuitive/ conditional basis even when two people using those different approaches arrive at the same decision.  Both can be intelligent and even wise people.  But because the intuitive/ idealist doesn't articulate their reasoning in the way that zings the rational/principle person- that helps them tick their boxes- they assume that there is no reasoning at all or that the idealist came to their conclusion on an irrational basis.  However, the intuitive speaks a different language and may not even know how to articulate (in a way that's convincing to the rational type) how they came to their decision, or they just don't care to justify themselves in that way.

Both Alistair and Loghain want their nemesis dead.  Loghain even goes further and wants to kill Eamon, the Warden and Alistair.  They approach this in different ways, but in both cases it is probably the smartest thing to do.  Certainly the safest.  Intelligence doesn't really come to bear.  Calling for Loghain's execution is a perfectly rational thing to do.  Alistair has reasons for it, and his reasoning is fine.  I don't fault him for anything he does in the LM, even for leaving.  Seizing the throne is also an understandable thing to do- Loghain is a symbol of corrupt rule to him, but points to what he sees as a larger corruption that is threatening the country, and he is in a position to do something about it so he feels he must.   I do fault Alistair for not coming back or aiding the Blight in some way, and since Gaider says he regrets that, obviously he realizes later that it was a mistake.

As for comparing Zevran and Alistair, I would put the difference down to experience and not aptitude.  Zevran has had to navigate treacherous politics his entire life, not as a politician himself but as the knife in the hands of people like that.

Modifié par Addai67, 05 mars 2011 - 12:56 .

[rak72]

Intj here, very strong in the I&J, only 1% in the N&T. Interesting.

[Yankee23]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Hmm... I think I am a BAMF on that scale.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about...but I'm gonna say i'm one of them^ too!

[Shinobu]

INTP/J -- there are a lot of us here for only being 2% of the population. Maybe INTs are attracted to message boards. Or Bioware games.