39010 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

Lol, Alibum. Perfect way to welcome Java.

Hi Java, I like how your wardens lipstick matches her hair!

I can't forgive Eamon for the stables & dogs.

[fyreshadowes]

Ooohh... pretty pictures. Anyway, it's funny that you should ask about Arl Eamon, because I'm in the midst of writing a story about him. Actually, it's not about him, it's about Fergus - what he went through between Ostagar and finding his sister in Denerim - but the section I'm writing about now has Eamon in it. </ramble>

Basically, I neither like nor dislike Arl Eamon; I found him something of a bland character, with not much in-game personality to speak of. How he treated Alistair was disappointing, but reasonable; TBH, Alistair wasn't his kid, but he still put in way more effort than Alistair's own parents did (aka zilch). Alistair's memory of sleeping in the stable is a little kid's memory; perhaps there was more to it than he remembers. Maybe he was behaving badly or disrespected someone important, and Eamon used the stables as a form of discipline. Kids tend to remember the punishment more than the actual offense. Granted, putting a kid in the stables for doing something bad is not exactly good parenting, but those were different times. Eamon was probably harsh on Alistair because that was what a lot of fathers did to their sons (yes, I know Alistair isn't his son, but he came pretty close) in order for them to grow up strong.

It does seem that he cared for Alistair in his own way - buying him toys, fixing the amulet, etc. Sure, he ignored Alistair's opinion and basically forced him to be a candidate for kingship, but he was thinking of Ferelden first, which is his *job*. True, Eamon didn't seem very involved in Connor's life, but that was probably normal for a noble's son. The kid's mother and servants were expected to look after him, whereas Eamon was expected to spend his time governing his arldom.

All in all, I don't hate Eamon. He seems well-intentioned and he's apparently respected by his peers. He may not be a good parent, but he's probably a good man.

Oh, and the whole Cailan/Anora thing - again, he was doing his job. He wasn't trying to force Cailan to ditch Anora; he was suggesting that it might be the prudent thing to do, in terms of Ferelden's best interests. And TBH, I hate Anora anyway, so I can't say that bothers me at all. Just to clarify, I haven't actually played Return to Ostagar, so I'm just guessing this from reading what other people have said about it.

EDIT: Oh, I seem to have misinterpreted the "sleeping in the stables" thing. I thought that was just one occurence. It's been a while since I've had that particular conversation. Did you mean that Eamon made him sleep in the stables as a regular thing? If so, I stand corrected. Still, it could be another example of that whole "tough love" sort of dynamic.

Modifié par fyreshadowes, 17 août 2011 - 04:42 .

[gingergen]

Yankee23 wrote...

I love the Farseer  and Tawny Man Trilogies!

Edit: Welcome Java! No shame needed over pixel crushes! And you'll find that your not in the minority with your age either, I'm 37!

I had almost as big a crush on the Fool as I do on Alistair, to be honest.

And I'm also in the late 30s club, for what it's worth!

Also, those pictures... damn.

[fyreshadowes]

Maybe I'm in the minority here after all. I'm almost reluctant to say how young I am... you guys wouldn't discriminate against a teenager, right? Right?

[theskymoves]

fyreshadowes wrote...

EDIT: Oh, I seem to have misinterpreted the "sleeping in the stables" thing. I thought that was just one occurence. It's been a while since I've had that particular conversation. Did you mean that Eamon made him sleep in the stables as a regular thing? If so, I stand corrected. Still, it could be another example of that whole "tough love" sort of dynamic.

I can think of at three instances where Alistair mentions his childhood sleeping accomodations:

The afformentioned bark in Denerim market:
"The arl used to come here in the winter when I was small. I, uh... slept with the hounds."

and twice during the "So you said this Arl Eamon raised you" convo:
"I wasn't raised as the arl's son, though, if you're picturing that. I slept in hay out in the stables, not on silk sheets."

and during the amazing surrealist "flying Andrastian dog" branch of that same conversation:
"Or did I dream all of that? Funny the dreams you'll have when you sleep on the cold, hard ground, isn't it?"

~tsm (who is feeling really old right now)

Modifié par theskymoves, 17 août 2011 - 05:22 .

[fyreshadowes]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I really need to do another playthrough SOON and listen to those conversations again. I'm suffering from Alistair withdrawal

[theskymoves]

fyreshadowes wrote...

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I really need to do another playthrough SOON and listen to those conversations again. I'm suffering from Alistair withdrawal

No problem!

Edited to add: I do think the thing Alistair says about his childhood that is most disturbing is his reminisence in the Redcliffe castle dungeon, "I locked myself in a cage, once, when I was a child. For an entire day. Good times."
That is... so wrong.

As long as I'm being depressing, how about a couple o' screenshots from my most recent Warden+Alistair+Dawg RTO run? All the darkspawn killin', none of the weird party banter!





~tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 21 août 2011 - 04:03 .

[fyreshadowes]

theskymoves wrote...

fyreshadowes wrote...

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I really need to do another playthrough SOON and listen to those conversations again. I'm suffering from Alistair withdrawal

No problem!

Edited to add: I do think the thing Alistair says about his childhood that is most disturbing is his reminisence in the Redcliffe castle dungeon, "I locked myself in a cage, once, when I was a child. For an entire day. Good times."
That is... so wrong.

I don't know... to me, that sounds like something I would have found super fun in my childhood. By childhood, I mean like two years ago.

Although... I do think I would get bored after an hour or so. And start screaming at the top of my lungs for someone to let me out.

Maybe Alistair brought his kitty in the cage with him? 'Cause that could so entertain me for a day. 

[Maria13]

Dear Fyre how could we possibly discriminate against a teenager with the good taste and sense of a mature woman?

@JJ welcome, married 20+ years here and yeah, he has Ali's sense of humour...

[nos_astra]

fyreshadowes wrote...
EDIT: Oh, I seem to have misinterpreted the "sleeping in the stables" thing. I thought that was just one occurence. It's been a while since I've had that particular conversation. Did you mean that Eamon made him sleep in the stables as a regular thing? If so, I stand corrected. Still, it could be another example of that whole "tough love" sort of dynamic.

I still don't find that horrible, not in Thedas. My human noble would think it's a horrible thing to do to the king's son, even if he's just a bastard, but it would be appropriate for a commoner and an orphan.

Some people think he should have been living with the Guerrin family. That would have raised even more suspicion.
Some think he should have been placed with a commoner family. That could have been worse (no access to healing magic, hard work, no education).

[fyreshadowes]

Maria13 wrote...

Dear Fyre how could we possibly discriminate against a teenager with the good taste and sense of a mature woman?

@JJ welcome, married 20+ years here and yeah, he has Ali's sense of humour...

Whew Good. Just a day shy of my fifteenth birthday, here. That's probably why my headcanon usually puts my Warden at just a few years older (if she's a girl). Although... considering Alistair is 20-something (memory fails me as to his exact age) that might make their romance just a tad bit creepy. Awkward...

(it's even worse when she starts flirting with Teagan... )

I hope when I grow up and get married (gosh, it seems so long in the future for me...) it'll be to a guy with a good (Alistair's) sense of humor. And good taste in music. And a healthy amount of ambition. Cue long descriptory list of exactly what personality quirks my perfect guy would come with... </ramble>

[theskymoves]

And how would all of you feel about having someone who passed the half-century mark a couple of years ago in your midst?

~tsm (old, but a lot more fun than Wynne)

Modifié par theskymoves, 17 août 2011 - 12:51 .

[rak72]

theskymoves wrote...

And how would all of you feel about having someone who passed the half-century mark a couple of years ago in your midst?

~tsm (old, but a lot more fun than Wynne)

I run with Teagan's crowd

[gingergen]

I think the wide disparity of age and experience in this thread is just proof that we all have good taste.

[Maria13]

theskymoves wrote...

And how would all of you feel about having someone who passed the half-century mark a couple of years ago in your midst?

~tsm (old, but a lot more fun than Wynne)

Just a few years your junior myself, what can I say?:innocent:

@GG well exactly!

Modifié par Maria13, 17 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[java_jive_girl]

rak72 wrote...

Lol, Alibum. Perfect way to welcome Java.

Hi Java, I like how your wardens lipstick matches her hair!

I can't forgive Eamon for the stables & dogs.

Thanks!  This is my mage, Amara.  I started the play through thinking that she was going to be this arrogant, tell it like it is girl who would romance Leliana and the Zevran because she's going to be a bit of a party ****...I was going to stay away from Alistair because I KNOW I wouldn't be able to break it off with him to stay true to her character...then I met him in Ostagar and even though I've done this with a few other characters all ready, I'm still never prepared for that...and I don't know how I'm going to keep her away from him. *sigh*  ....I WANTED to put my favorite character up as my pic (Rayne, a city elf), but she isn't loading onto the site very well for some reason.

@Alibum...Wow...I haven't seen THOSE pics yet!  *fanning face franticly*

Eamon...Meh...I don't hate him, but I don't LIKE him, either.  He's just so...political.  lol.  Hate how he has treated Alistair, but the fact that he has done other things for him (the toys and fixing the amulet) is really confusing to me...he needs to be more consistant.  I know it's part of the complexity of the character and all that and I'm not saying BioWare needs to change him...I guess that's one of the aspects of this game that I love; characters that you can't hate or love all the way just because nothing is black and white. 

Oh, and I love the age diversity here!  I agree...just shows that we all have great taste!  There's no judgement HERE!

Modifié par java_jive_girl, 18 août 2011 - 02:45 .

[Maricsblade]

So many comments to address…

@Java—I think it's happened to lots of us. Alistair is done well enough to appeal to mainstream people and get them hooked on the world as a result. I'm just embarrassed that after eight months Alistair is still my main reason for playing. Hope your husband is cool about it. Despite being an old-school role-player/GM and into fantasy, mine can't even bring himself to finish the game once, so I know he'll never fall in love with Thedas or understand my obsession with it…

@fyre—Can I just say that I'm jealous of you, getting to play such great games and already writing fanfic at 14? What a great hobby and creative outlet. And I don't think from your posts that anyone would ever have guessed your age.

@Wulfram—Good point and one I hadn't heard before: Why did Eamon bother telling Alistair anything at all? Though if Errant is correct and Maric was around until Alistair was sent away, it might have been more difficult to hide it. (I've not read "The Calling" yet, or Cadsuane's "Mistakes"…)

@Yankee—Nice to see a reference to Robin Hobb, whom I've only recently heard about (yes, yes, dilettante here). She has so many series that it was difficult to decide where to start. Now I know.

Guess my thoughts on Eamon are close to Errant's. I don't see that Eamon is so much to blame or that Alistair is very damaged. (As one fic pointed out, Alistair doesn't have trouble leading the group into the Wilds before Ostagar. Despite his crummy life, it's only after he loses Duncan and the Wardens that his mojo totally disappears.) If Eamon is such a political animal, why'd he marry an Orlesian when he did? If he's such an ass, why does Alistair admit to having driven him away? (Not that a responsible adult would have stopped visiting him at the monastery, regardless of Alistair's behavior.) And I don't blame Eamon for Isolde's having kept Connor's situation from him; she's an idiot and the guy's a busy dude. So far I still can't find it in myself to hate him, but it's all interpretation, and I think people's opinions of lots of things in the game change the longer they play it. Maybe I'll grow to hate him as others have, eventually.

Modifié par alisgirl, 18 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[Yankee23]

@Alisgirl...Definitely start with the Farseer Trilogy and then the Tawny Man, since it is a continuation. She wrote another called the Liveship Traders that was also good. It has a tiny connection to Farseer and Tawny man so if you decide to read it, it would go between the two but it is mostly unrealted.

And get on Mistakes, it's fantastic!

[Maricsblade]

Yankee23 wrote...

@Alisgirl...Definitely start with the Farseer Trilogy and then the Tawny Man, since it is a continuation. She wrote another called the Liveship Traders that was also good. It has a tiny connection to Farseer and Tawny man so if you decide to read it, it would go between the two but it is mostly unrealted.

And get on Mistakes, it's fantastic!

Aaaargh…I still have to read ASOIAF, got a fanfic list as long as my arm…what are you people doing to me?!?!?!

Edit: I meant, "THANK YOU."  :innocent::innocent::innocent:

Modifié par alisgirl, 18 août 2011 - 03:37 .

[Maricsblade]

Can I just say that I love this place and hope it continues to pick up steam again…??

[fyreshadowes]

alisgirl wrote...

@fyre—Can I just say that I'm jealous of you, getting to play such great games and already writing fanfic at 14? What a great hobby and creative outlet. And I don't think from your posts that anyone would ever have guessed your age.

Thank you Most of my friends don't understand how I can spend so much time just writing, whether it's fanfic or my own stories... They think I don't have a life, whereas in reality, I live through each of my characters ^ ^ Gosh, that sounds so lame when I try to explain it...

[fyreshadowes]

java_jive_girl wrote...

rak72 wrote...

Lol, Alibum. Perfect way to welcome Java.

Hi Java, I like how your wardens lipstick matches her hair!

I can't forgive Eamon for the stables & dogs.

Thanks!  This is my mage, Amara.  I started the play through thinking that she was going to be this arrogant, tell it like it is girl who would romance Leliana and the Zevran because she's going to be a bit of a party ****...I was going to stay away from Alistair because I KNOW I wouldn't be able to break it off with him to stay true to her character...then I met him in Ostagar and even though I've done this with a few other characters all ready, I'm still never prepared for that...and I don't know how I'm going to keep her away from him. *sigh*  ....I WANTED to put my favorite character up as my pic (Rayne, a city elf), but she isn't loading onto the site very well for some reason.

I did almost the same thing with my mage... I intended her to be kind of a self-serving, power-hungry bloodmage who would romance Zevran, kick it with Morrigan, and totally ignore Leliana and Alistair... but it backfired on me, because I'm too much of a wuss to keep from romancing Alistair as a female. Only way I can avoid it is with a male character, because it just happens to be impossible

I know what you mean about the whole avatar thing. My picture is from one of my really, really early playthroughs, but for some reason only the first two show up on the site. All of my later ones (elves, mages, etc.) just don't show up. Hope I can figure out how to fix that, now that I've started making prettier Wardens...

[Maricsblade]

@fyre—Exactly. Are you familiar with the personality evaluation system called the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator? There used to be some free tests floating around the Web. It's a fun way to learn about yourself, and might also help you understand and create characters for your stories.

Modifié par alisgirl, 18 août 2011 - 05:02 .

[fyreshadowes]

@alisgirl - Yes, I've read about that test before. I'm not sure if I've actually taken it - perhaps I'll look it up again sometime.

[theskymoves]

Maria13 wrote...
Just a few years your junior myself, what can I say?:innocent:

Yay! I'm the oldest! (Wait... not sure if I should be happy, or sad about that... )

And now it's back to lurking for me, I think...   One for the road!



~tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 21 août 2011 - 04:06 .